Then prove that area to them and keep your pipe sizing the same as if you were calculating the “real” hydraulically most demanding area. You are covered in both cases. Chris
From: Brett Peters <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:06 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Residential Design in NFPA 13 LOL, unfortunately I have someone arguing that it can be done the other way because "those heads have a larger area of coverage". In my opinion they are twisting the definitions of "adjacent" and "hydraulically most demanding" to include the sprinklers that cover the largest area but in my opinion the largest floor space doesn't necessarily present as the most demanding. I will be on Holidays from August 12th to 21st, returning to work on Tuesday August 22nd Thanks Brett Peters General Manager Installation & Design Proudline Fire Protection Services Ltd. [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 780 490 7602 office ext 202 780 490 7605 fax 780 777 0568 cell 780 718 2676 24h Visit us at www.proudline.ca<http://www.proudline.ca/> Proudline now offers ULc listed monitoring services, please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> for more information [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wRo6r0eNDUWx8YR-4XJLvwcnouQn_xEZH_HIb4jDbepWtON2RWC-ekzvZHKtncFOQqPcNQfzM] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yJVI287VPLDWiW9maE2Np3U4CdszCY9deeyaLl8DM90wlBd7pnuOZV9U-swv-7gWN_24py6vo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wlGmqj6Ja06DKOIMLPvEE8B2W8fT_TPPA3w-4JfqygLq9n77ECSni09YLIVICXJYzWo4Z0PjU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zEgPbs279KVEfWIpIiWNLel8zAlcloW9dNXGLTaE1cMz88CRkmg17fju5BQB_iIzhWK20DUL8] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4z7J0kfmSGA8jKvDK0pTqW3KQlc5v-tYcWosmy5W7pdok462Gzu_9Ft7UK9oJUWDT1DzhQ4hUU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wTVHoTZxkppBoWSCTFnGLgGTq0apivi8sNvWPyBsloO0mmy8ZYu4Ax854jo7ihTMFyeYeOceg] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xwBWEOX5v9mpza4Jqf9lOKSwThBNvyIO7Rl-Cxo7NRiV7p70C0f1biwbh44Y-iIA5GcmD1MCo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yPfO1HdtbQPYiKlYE38cwc88ABhX7xN1nh0fCK5LjFXjKplJggk3Xn6_XypmtMWyADKR7ZRGk] On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 9:31 AM Chris Dorn <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Brett, I think you answered your own question. “I always choose whatever gives me the greatest pressure loss not necessarily the larger flow.” Wouldn’t that by definition be the hydraulically most demanding area regardless of location? It’s exactly what I do also in this situation. Chris Dorn From: Brett Peters <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 11:15 AM To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Residential Design in NFPA 13 Having a debate on which sprinklers actually have to be part of the hydraulic calculation in a residential unit in a 13 building (So the calculation has to include 4 sprinklers) - NFPA 13, 2013 11.3.1.1* The design area shall be the area that includes the four adjacent sprinklers that produce the greatest hydraulic demand. With 11.3.1.1 in mind if you have a space where you have less than 4 sprinklers in a compartment and you have to start adding sprinklers in other compartments to come up with 4 in the calculation, what is the method that you have to use? So for arguments sake this scenario is 2 sprinklers in one compartment and then two "adjacent" sprinklers outside of that compartment but there are sprinklers in different directions that can be considered as "adjacent" 1. Adding sprinklers from the next compartment on a different sprinkler line which would qualify as an "adjacent sprinkler" and potentially have 4 sprinklers fed form 3 different lines or 2. adding "adjacent sprinklers" that are first on a common sprinkler line and potentially having 3 sprinklers on a single line. My argument is that scenario 2 has to be followed as that would produce the largest demand to a sprinkler line and if required increase the size of that line. The other argument is that in scenario 1 they are picking the "adjacent sprinkler" that has a larger protection area, so the actual water flow might be slightly higher but it spreads the flow through 3 different lines instead of only 2 So scenario 1 has more flow but less pressure loss resulting in smaller piping and scenario 2 has less flow but more pressure loss requiring larger pipe to be installed. So what are other people doing in these situations and what is really considered as producing the greatest hydraulic demand? I always choose whatever gives me the greatest pressure loss not necessarily the larger flow. I will be on Holidays from August 12th to 21st, returning to work on Tuesday August 22nd Thanks Brett Peters General Manager Installation & Design Proudline Fire Protection Services Ltd. [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 780 490 7602 office ext 202 780 490 7605 fax 780 777 0568 cell 780 718 2676 24h Visit us at www.proudline.ca<http://www.proudline.ca/> Proudline now offers ULc listed monitoring services, please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> for more information [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wRo6r0eNDUWx8YR-4XJLvwcnouQn_xEZH_HIb4jDbepWtON2RWC-ekzvZHKtncFOQqPcNQfzM] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yJVI287VPLDWiW9maE2Np3U4CdszCY9deeyaLl8DM90wlBd7pnuOZV9U-swv-7gWN_24py6vo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wlGmqj6Ja06DKOIMLPvEE8B2W8fT_TPPA3w-4JfqygLq9n77ECSni09YLIVICXJYzWo4Z0PjU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zEgPbs279KVEfWIpIiWNLel8zAlcloW9dNXGLTaE1cMz88CRkmg17fju5BQB_iIzhWK20DUL8] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4z7J0kfmSGA8jKvDK0pTqW3KQlc5v-tYcWosmy5W7pdok462Gzu_9Ft7UK9oJUWDT1DzhQ4hUU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wTVHoTZxkppBoWSCTFnGLgGTq0apivi8sNvWPyBsloO0mmy8ZYu4Ax854jo7ihTMFyeYeOceg] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xwBWEOX5v9mpza4Jqf9lOKSwThBNvyIO7Rl-Cxo7NRiV7p70C0f1biwbh44Y-iIA5GcmD1MCo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yPfO1HdtbQPYiKlYE38cwc88ABhX7xN1nh0fCK5LjFXjKplJggk3Xn6_XypmtMWyADKR7ZRGk] _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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