On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, William R. Ward wrote:
> Sidney Markowitz writes:
>>On Fri, 2002-03-01 at 16:37, William R Ward wrote:
[...]
>>> To the best of my knowledge, [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not send spam.
>>> It's mail for an affiliate program that I signed up for.
>>
>>In general it is a good idea to add mail from lists that you sign up
>>for to your whitelist.
Actually, it's a good idea /if/ you get too many false positives from
it. :)
>>If most mail from such a list has content that does not look like spam
>>and you have autowhitelist turned on, then that saves you the work of
>>adding the list address by hand. Any mailing list that has anything to
>>do with money is likely to get flagged as spam if it is not
>>white-listed.
>
> There's a lot of legitimate e-mail about money in the world... I think
> that perhaps that criteria should be refined and/or deemphasized.
The scoring is based on the rules, each human created from patterns
observed in the SPAM we get.
The actual scores are generated by running software that looks at what
hits the most SPAM and the least non-SPAM.
> In a perfect world, whitelist shouldn't be necessary.
s/shouldn't/wouldn't/ and you have got it right.
The problem is that I thought your complain was about SPAM initially,
because the mail you cited is pretty much exactly the pattern of some
SPAM that I get.
You wanted it -- that's great. I don't, and a system that let your
desired mail though would really suck for me. It's that sort of world.
If you want, help Craig by contributing your non-SPAM creeps to the
project. That way mail that you get which isn't spam will be less likely
to be matched.
[...]
>>Oh this is the right place as far as I know. And I am just another
>>user, not an active developer on the project. I was just expressing my
>>opinion that the content of the email message that you showed looks
>>like spam.
>
> In what way?
It talked about nothing but how easy it was to make money, how great a
system this was for making money and how wonderful life was now that
you, too, could be part of this system.
> Because it is commercial doesn't mean it's unsolicited commercial.
Yes.
> It isn't full of hype the way spam usually is.
Actually, as I said, it's /exactly/ the sort of hype that I often get in
SPAM. Precisely, in fact, because it's a marketing blurb, just like SPAM.
> It wasn't routed through an open relay.
Did it actually score points against an open relay?
> It was addressed to me with ordinary Bcc-type of addressing.
Which, sadly, is impossible to tell from the ordinary Bcc-type
addressing that is used by spammers to ship mail to people.
[...]
> I forwarded the entire message, and the headers should be intact. Did
> you look?
I did. It looks very much like SPAM.
[...]
>>It is also possible that Craig Hughes will look at your message and
>>decide to add something for richdad.com mail. I'll be surprised, but
>>he's the one to decide what goes into the released package and what is
>>left for individual customization.
>
> I'm not asking for a global whitelist entry. I'm saying that the
> e-mail didn't have any spammish headers, and the body of the message
> seems like an innocuous announcement to me.
Here is my personal analysis of the text:
[...]
] Subject: Rich Dad Needs Your Help
This is the sort of inducement that I often get. How the product can
help enlarge my penis, that I can help myself get right, this mail can
help me break out of the poverty cycle...
A "Rich Dad" is someone who was once an ordinary person but now, through
the power of the ponzi scheme, is rich...
Not that these are right in this case but, without you having said so, I
would have assumed that it /was/ a ponzi.
[...]
] We have the opportunity to share our Cashflow for Kids testimonials with
] a major TV Network!
...or an opportunity to make money fast, or a system that has been seen
on TV and, as such, is /clearly/ worthwhile...
] We are asking for help from our Rich Dad friends.
...how many spammers call me their friend and want to help? Let me count
the times...
] Please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include your kid's stories
] and how they feel about the Cashflow for Kids Game.
...personally, this mail gives me a dubious feeling even if it is
solicited. I don't know that children really do need a cash flow, nor
help with it.
Using them to advertise a product is also of ... dubious morality, I
feel.
] We will need them before the end of today (4:30pm MST 2/27/02)
] I appreciate your support!
...don't forget to hurry, hurry, hurry because this limited time offer
to get you what you dream of runs out soon. No time to think, no time to
actually make sure it's legitimate...
> I think the problem might be because "cash" and "rich" are in the
> body.
Actually it's probably because the entire email is encouraging you to
act quickly, contact someone about cashflow and money and discusses the
wonderfulness of the program.
> That in itself doesn't mean it's spam. Can we tone down the rule that
> is triggered by those words?
Which rules? The report indicates exactly which rules were matched. If
you want to post the details on which ones did you /may/ get a better
response.
SpamAssassin is a heuristic system, though. It does it's best to *guess*
if something is SPAM or not.
Your solicited mail looks like SPAM. It's nothing but SPAM-like text.
I would suggest that you may be much happier with a simple ORBS test or
a DCC or Vipul's Razor like system that only blocks verified SPAM.
SpamAssasin is /never/ likely to leave this sort of message alone
without you telling it to do so.
Daniel
--
All discarded lovers should be given a second chance, but with somebody else.
-- Mae West
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