A friend has one.
I fully recognize that that's just "one" and limit comment to "that" one.
[Hope I made that clear ]
I also know that adjusting electrode position will change the trigger point
[Move the tips just a little further apart and conductivity will go higher]
...and that the reference voltage and everything associated with shutoff
point can be skewed by a combination of 1% components stacking up one way
or the other and ambient temperature, even humidity, can play a minor role
in the way components work.
Electrode wear and minor differences in water level will make it go
higher [or lower] too.
A 15 to 22 uS range is quite "real world" reasonable.
Heck, the power grid varies between 105 and 120 volts and we still load the
dish washers.
Some variation in machinery is to be expected.
uS Meters don't discriminate. They just read conductivity. [TDS meters, a
whole lot less accurately]
Your 1.2 to 1 factor came from the same place the same way as my 1 to 1
factor and has the same limitations to accuracy and repeatability.
A mere .2 difference is a testament to that labs good work. [Colloidal
Sciences Laboratory..which incidentally reports 14.6 PPM on an SG6 sample
sent to them. No mention of shut down conductivity or who sent the sample. ]
Other labs are all over the place.
When it comes right down to it, the *body* isn't going to be able to tell
the difference between 15 and 25 PPM.
Actual PPM to a single digit is just not that critical.
I've always stood by the SG6 as a good machine and you, Trem as a good
fellow.
Any apparent criticism is just personal preference over "details".
The bottom line is this:
The SG6 works just fine and I've always said it was one of the best.
Voltage referenced auto off, like ALL meters, are the best wrong tool going
when the "right" tool costs a hundred grand, takes up a whole closet and
requires a "well" trained technician to use.
Water quality is the biggest bugaboo where "what" is in it can be more of
a problem than how much ...and NO ONE has much control over that.
The controlled current /auto off generators themselves do two pretty simple
things.
They run at a controlled pace and shut down when they see that referenced
conductivity [regardless of what they might be "looking though" to see it ]
Generally speaking, If they run at all and are set up correctly, they run
right.
There are few limits to environmental variations that can affect results
and users who can misconstrue them and what caused differences.
I'd be glad to clarify any statements with emphasis. [I just did?]
ode
At 12:34 PM 9/23/2006 -0700, you wrote:
Hi Ode,
I was wondering how you came to the conclusion our SG6 Auto generator
shuts off at 15 uS? Do you have one or do people send them to you for
your comment? That shutoff point is not my understanding. Each unit is
calibrated to the same shutoff point using a test jig to set the "Low" and
"High" shutoff points.
I took a unit from stock (which I do every so often) and ran it at "High"
to see what it did. It shut off around 22 uS. I waited a day and it was
around 21 uS. I turned it back on and it ran a couple of minutes and shut
down again. Pretty consistent.
Seems to me it's working as advertised. We advertise 15-20 PPM but
there's a caveat I mention when asked. I tell people the end result can
be skewed by initial water conductivity, water temperature, wetted
electrode depth, electrode spacing and of bourse "the dial setting" I
think we advertise PPM quite conservatively.
Using 1:2 PPM to 1 uS gives 25+ PPM. We recommend folks set the dial to
midrange or somewhere less than :High" but you know how some people want
more bang by drinking less of a stronger water than more of a weaker
water. Once in a while we get a person that says the PPM was lower than
expected. They're usually using a TDS meter so we tell them to at least
double the reading. If that doesn't solve the issue I mention the
caveat. The problem then usually turns out to be the water quality.
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Trem
[email protected]
www.silvergen.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ode Coyote" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:58 AM
Subject: CS>how meters, silverpuppy and silvergen generators work
Both work the same way.
There is a current control circuit that holds current constant once the
conductivity has increased to the point that the current wants to go
higher than the set point.
In essence, it will "run away" very slowly until the current control puts
the brakes on and holds the speed steady.
The way it keeps current the same regardless of the conductivity going
higher is by automatically dropping the voltage.
The auto off circuit is a voltage comparator.
It is fed a specific internal voltage to compare the electrode voltage to.
When the electrode voltage drops to the point that both voltages match
while keeping current constant as conductivity rises, it turns itself off.
Since electrode exposure, spacing, current, conductivity and voltage
are all interdependent, it works exactly like a conductivity meter. Like
a conductivity meter, there are ways a careless person can make it read wrong.
Conductivity meters that operate in the pure water ranges, used with
care, come pretty close to AA Spectrophotometer results.
The SG6s I've seen are set at around 15 microsiemens max with a dial to
set it lower and no way to go higher
The Silverpuppy is set at around 15 microsiemens with no 'go lower'
dial but with a bypass so you can go as high as you dare.
The "derived" relationship of microsiemens of conductivity to PPM at
one to one [ Or Trems one to 1.2 ] is only valid between around 10 and
20 PPM and includes a fudge factor for unreadable "colloidal" content
. Under 8 a meter reading slews high, over 20 it slews low.
That means, if a meter is reading 25 uS, the actual silver content
could be as high as around 30 PPM. If it's reading 35, it could be as
high as 50 PPM. There's no way to tell.
A "PPM" meter adds another fudge factor to a conductivity reading
specific for various metal salts to make yet another approximate
"association"...NOT CS.
Each salt has it's own fudge factor.
It does not read "PPM" in any substance.
Given a calibration at 300 PPM in saline and a range of 0 to 2,000 PPM,
a +/- 2% range read error can amount to over 20 PPM which is somewhere
around 40 microsiemens when used in the 5 to 10 PPM ranges.
They are in fact better than that but far from perfect.
Two identical and identically calibrated PPM meters can often both read
zero in distilled water, 2 PPM in one sample, then one at 6 PPM and the
other at 8 PPM in the same higher PPM sample.
That's a difference in reading of around 4 PPM/uS "equivalency in
silver" in the same sample.
"Conductivity" meters are far more repeatable with differences rarely
going over .5 uS between meters.
6 PPM by a PPM meter in "silver water" is about 12 PPM and an 8 PPM
reading on that PPM meter is around 16 PPM by the spectrophotometer.
I've had state run water labs return results as high as 50 PPM by their
methods that tested at 12 PPM by the AA Spectrophotometer set up
specifically for silver at the "colloidal sciences" lab.
Finding actual silver content is not easy even for the pros in
multimillion dollar labs that do nothing BUT test water.
Thinking that a $14 PPM meter using 3 fudge factors all lined up and
calibrated at 30 times the use range will do better is pretty arrogant.
It's amazing they do as well as they do.
ode
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