Re: About programing, a general question

> > Back in the day, we used paper tape for our NC machinery. Lots of it. > > -- cmg > & how often did that either break or get snarled up, just coz the humidity had dropped We suggested that Field Engineers should inspect all the young lady operators for *nasty* nylon clothing & remove it.

Re: About programing, a general question

On Sat, 2010-12-25 at 18:29 -0800, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > With all due respect. > > I disagree.. > > Start at the bottom and work up. > > To learn assembly you need to understand the architecture of the chip. > This understanding of chip design and then execution codes will give > a great ba

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/24/10, Marko Vojinovic wrote: > On Wednesday 22 December 2010 17:07:46 David Liguori wrote: >> I'm surprised no one has suggested this so far as I've read so I will, >> but if one is really interested in learning about how the hardware works >> the most obvious place to start is "assembly" o

Re: About programing, a general question

Once upon a time, James McKenzie said: > However, you are correct that punch cards should last for at least 100 > years. A lot longer than magnetic tape, CD and DVD media. Good tape types (such as DLT) are rated for at least 25 years of shelf life. DLT is also nice in that the latest (and unfo

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 19:47:59 -0700 James McKenzie wrote: > On 12/23/10 5:25 AM, Tim wrote: > > Tim: > >>> Did you actually read the card? > > http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg > > > I hated those cards. > > However, you are correct that punch cards should last for at least > 100 years. A l

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 19:47:59 -0700 James McKenzie wrote: > However, you are correct that punch cards should last for at least 100 > years. A lot longer than magnetic tape, CD and DVD media. Depends on which one you leave out in the rain :-). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/23/10 5:25 AM, Tim wrote: > Tim: >>> Did you actually read the card? > http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg > I hated those cards. However, you are correct that punch cards should last for at least 100 years. A lot longer than magnetic tape, CD and DVD media. James McKenzie -- users m

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 12/23/2010 11:37 AM, Patrick Kobly wrote: >> After reading through the whole thread, I have to admit I was starting >> to lean towards OP being a script attempting to pass the Turing test. > > Yes.  Especially after he (or it) started replying

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/23/2010 11:37 AM, Patrick Kobly wrote: > After reading through the whole thread, I have to admit I was starting > to lean towards OP being a script attempting to pass the Turing test. Yes. Especially after he (or it) started replying to every post in this thread, even if it were only one w

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/23/2010 7:32 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > If the topic was "which languages are well-supported in Fedora", or even > "what is the most appropriate language for systems programming in Linux" > I wouldn't think twice about it, but the original question was so > general in scope that at firs

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 22:01 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan > wrote: > > Agreed. > > > > I'd also like to add that this entire thread seems to me to be > > off-topic. There are plenty of forums for discussing programming and > > programming langu

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010, David Liguori wrote: > Not in terms of executable file size or speed of execution. I took a > course in high performance scientific computing. An experiment we > performed was to write a program for the sum of three huge arrays, > repeated for larger and larger arrays, until

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:02 PM, William Case wrote: I would just like to add an observation. I have been a member of this > Fedora Users site for 5 years. I have noticed that at some point after > the release of a new version of Fedora a long OT thread develops. > Usually after 6 weeks to 2 m

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 08:11 -0700, James Mckenzie wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > >I'd also like to add that this entire thread seems to me to be > >off-topic. There are plenty of forums for discussing programming and > >programming languages, but this is list is for discussion of Fedora

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: Agreed. > > I'd also like to add that this entire thread seems to me to be > off-topic. There are plenty of forums for discussing programming and > programming languages, but this is list is for discussion of Fedora and > as far as I can

Re: About programing, a general question

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > >I'd also like to add that this entire thread seems to me to be >off-topic. There are plenty of forums for discussing programming and >programming languages, but this is list is for discussion of Fedora and >as far as I can see not a single message in the thread has an

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:31 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Aaron Konstam > wrote: > > > Most people who think they understand C++ will be humbled by > listening > to its developer explain how it can be used. > > > Really! Yeah, r

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 16:37 -0800, Hugh Caley wrote: > May I suggest that people do not use this forum as a type of chat > client? Replies of "Yes." and "Great." are not useful to a public > discussion and make for really huge archive lists and digests. > > Hugh Agreed. I'd also like to add t

Re: About programing, a general question

Tim: >> Did you actually read the card? http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg Parshwa Murdia: > I first saw that and then tries, ultimately could not. Seems great as > how wonderful the technology has become! Punch cards, including the ones drawn on in lead pencil, are the ultimate long term st

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Tim wrote: Tim: > >> Not quite, here it is: > >> http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg > > > Parshwa Murdia: > > Great. > > Did you actually read the card? > > > -- > [...@localhost ~]$ > I first saw that and then tries, ultimately could not. Seems great as how won

Re: About programing, a general question

Tim: >> Not quite, here it is: >> http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg > Parshwa Murdia: > Great. Did you actually read the card? -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists.

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/23/2010 08:58 AM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: > > There's also a copy of that story at FOLDOC. The first computer I ever >> programmed was an IBM 1620, Mod 2, with 20,000 individually addressable >> BCD digits, already obsolete in the late '60s w

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:13 +1030, Tim wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 15:54 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > > Bah. Real Programmers don't use FORTRAN, either! > > > > http://johnreece.com/wordpress/2006/07/10/real-programmers-dont-use-fortran-either/ > > And I still have my book for the SDK-85

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 16:52 -0600, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 00:10 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les wrote: > > > > Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles > > around C? > > Just asking. > >

Re: About programing, a general question

--- Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Hugh Caley > wrote: > > May I suggest that people do not use this forum as > a type of chat client? > > Replies of "Yes." and "Great." are not useful to a > public discussion and > > make for really huge archive lists and digests. >

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 16:45 -0600, Aaron Konstam wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 23:42 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > > > > I suggested it for that reason, you can use c++ very easily as > > if it > > was C and this allows for a much easier transition in the > > futu

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: Especially when they either top post or quote the entire message, > including large quantities of text that has nothing to do with their reply. > Really. But some reason is there and you know about it being a programing query. -- Regards, Par

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Hugh Caley wrote: May I suggest that people do not use this forum as a type of chat client? > Replies of "Yes." and "Great." are not useful to a public discussion and > make for really huge archive lists and digests. > > Hugh > Correct Hugh, but I hope you woul

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Tim wrote: Hot quite, here it is: > http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg Great. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/us

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:46 AM, James McKenzie wrote: Again, more books that I have read. I had or have their Javascript for > Programmers book. Not needed for a good course on programming. > However, their C++ book is great. > > Their C book is a mixed bag in the current edition, but I had a p

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Tim wrote: I wonder if kids will build their own MP3 players, the way we built a > crystal radio set? ;-) > > -- > [...@localhost ~]$ > Future only could tell that. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscri

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: Punch Card > > > > Hollerith code > > > hehe > > Marvin > ! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listin

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Tim wrote: And I still have my book for the SDK-85 to prove it... And my pocket > fold-out cheat-sheet for the CPU OP codes ;-) > > Breadboarding our own CPU, RAM, I/O, etc. > > Mind you, when it comes to compiling OP codes in your head, then > punching hex int

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:22 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: There are C++ implementations where C++ is processed to C but the > language it self can have a compiler that does not use C. Oh. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change su

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: As someone who taught about programming languages for 30 years I can tell > you it would be pretty hard to go from C++ to Lisp or > scheme without some serious coaching. You might be correct but why I said because of C++ having zillion of o

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:11 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: Most people who think they understand C++ will be humbled by listening > to its developer explain how it can be used. > Really! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subsc

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: I don't agree. No beginning programmer ( I mean one who has never > programmed before) will learn C from K&R. Or at least I this it will be > very difficult. Might be! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedora

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:05 AM, Aaron Konstam wrote: Unless Java has changed a lot, how to you explain to a beginning > programmer the contortions you have to go through to do I/O in Java? > That's why I think Java is not a beginners programing language. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: There's also a copy of that story at FOLDOC. The first computer I ever > programmed was an IBM 1620, Mod 2, with 20,000 individually addressable > BCD digits, already obsolete in the late '60s when I first encountered > it. We started out with ma

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: Bah. Real Programmers don't use FORTRAN, either! > > > http://johnreece.com/wordpress/2006/07/10/real-programmers-dont-use-fortran-either/ > > (I was but a tyke in those days, but my dad worked for Royal around the > time this legend takes

Re: About programing, a general question

Tim: >> Tim runs through the room waving a punch card! Marvin Kosmal: > Punch Card > > > > Hollerith code > > > hehe Hot quite, here it is: http://i55.tinypic.com/2whp10j.jpg -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: htt

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/10 10:07 AM, David Liguori wrote: > Then, for an amusing read which may or may not tell you anything about > how a computer works, try Douglas Hofstadter's "Goedel, Escher, Bach: an > Eternal Golden Braid". I've read this book, on both sides (yes, this is a book that starts on one side an

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 11:56 -0500, William Case wrote: > I found that when teaching myself 'C', 10 or 20 minutes contemplating > an 'and' or an 'or' gate gave me enough of an 'aha!' that I could > understand what was going on. Of course, that was proceeded by > another twenty minutes or so underst

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/10, Tim wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 15:54 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote: >> Bah. Real Programmers don't use FORTRAN, either! >> >> http://johnreece.com/wordpress/2006/07/10/real-programmers-dont-use-fortran-either/ > > And I still have my book for the SDK-85 to prove it... And my poc

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 15:54 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > Bah. Real Programmers don't use FORTRAN, either! > > http://johnreece.com/wordpress/2006/07/10/real-programmers-dont-use-fortran-either/ And I still have my book for the SDK-85 to prove it... And my pocket fold-out cheat-sheet for th

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 04:37 PM, Hugh Caley wrote: > May I suggest that people do not use this forum as a type of chat > client? Replies of "Yes." and "Great." are not useful to a public > discussion and make for really huge archive lists and digests. Especially when they either top post or quote the enti

Re: About programing, a general question

May I suggest that people do not use this forum as a type of chat client? Replies of "Yes." and "Great." are not useful to a public discussion and make for really huge archive lists and digests. Hugh -- Hugh Caley, Linux Administrator Aldon Computer Group Great. 6001 Shellmound St. Suite 600

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 00:10 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les wrote: > > Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles > around C? > Just asking. > > > Regards, > Les H > > > > Absol

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 23:42 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > > I suggested it for that reason, you can use c++ very easily as > if it > was C and this allows for a much easier transition in the > future. C++ > can be anything from super easy to super hard. T

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 10:39 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > Basically, my company's product is written almost entirely in C++ and > after having been around C++ for a while, IMHO, it happens to be > reasonably well written and structured. In contrast I have been > involved > with some C++ that was es

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 23:46 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: > > > Books like K&R second edition are written in a more > understandable format. > > -- > Jerry Feldman > > > > I agree.

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 20:09 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:58 PM, James Mckenzie > wrote: > > I'll stick with my original recommendation of learning Java > for OOP. C++ requires recompliation for each and every > platform you want to run a progra

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 12:54 PM, Matthew Saltzman wrote: > http://johnreece.com/wordpress/2006/07/10/real-programmers-dont-use-fortran-either/ > > (I was but a tyke in those days, but my dad worked for Royal around the > time this legend takes place. He used to have publicity fliers for > these machines ly

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 12:25 -0800, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 12/22/2010 12:08 PM, Matt Smith wrote: > > I have to disagree, if utilized properly managing memory, optimizing > > the cache, etc is very possible with c++ and can absolutely work well > > in a high performance environment > > > > If you c

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: If you can't do what's needed in FORTRAN, you can't do it. Back in the > early '80s, I was working with Dan Alderson at JPL. We were doing work > with structures and pointer arithmetic, in FORTRAN77 because it was a > subroutine and function pack

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Rick Stevens wrote: I was on the ANSI C committee for a brief time when C was being spec'd > out back in the late '70s and early '80s. Our company was an early > adopter of Whitesmiths' C on Vaxen and PDP-11s. PJ Plaugher of > Whitesmiths was the first secretary

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:38 AM, Matt Smith wrote: I have to disagree, if utilized properly managing memory, optimizing > the cache, etc is very possible with c++ and can absolutely work well > in a high performance environment You must have worked with C++ in a high performance environment.

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Jussi Lehtola < jussileht...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: Traditionally high performance computing programs have been written in > Fortran, then some C, but nowadays many of the new codes are C++, > simply because OOP makes it a *lot* faster to develop a bug-free code

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: Basically, C++ is not going to work well in a high performance computing > environment. Templates and inheritance have their place. In essence C++ > and other OOP models should be designed. While that goes for all code, a > poorly designed C++

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:37 PM, les wrote: VERY well said. Thank you Jerry! > > Regards, > Les H > Yes. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Gui

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:36 PM, les wrote: I also must be showing my age ;-:) (showing the toothless, dentureless > smile) > You must be highly experienced! > The largest code I ever personally developed was just over 40,000 lines. > > > Regards, > Les H > And you use the word 'just' her

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 12:08 PM, Matt Smith wrote: > I have to disagree, if utilized properly managing memory, optimizing > the cache, etc is very possible with c++ and can absolutely work well > in a high performance environment If you can't do what's needed in FORTRAN, you can't do it. Back in the ea

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: I also don't like to get into discussions about what is > the best language. But you only told all this about C++!! > -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 03:07 AM, les wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 14:05 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: >> On 12/22/2010 01:52 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: >>> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Feldman>> > wrote: >>> >>> A properly optimized simple C++ program should be able to p

Re: About programing, a general question

I have to disagree, if utilized properly managing memory, optimizing the cache, etc is very possible with c++ and can absolutely work well in a high performance environment On 12/22/10, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On 12/22/2010 06:06 AM, les wrote: >> On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:49 -0500, Jerry Feldman

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 14:42:47 -0500 Jerry Feldman wrote: > Basically, C++ is not going to work well in a high performance > computing environment. Templates and inheritance have their place. In > essence C++ and other OOP models should be designed. While that goes > for all code, a poorly designed

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 06:06 AM, les wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:49 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: >> On 12/22/2010 01:40 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: >>> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les >> > wrote: >>> >>> Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles aroun

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 14:05 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On 12/22/2010 01:52 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Feldman > > wrote: > > > > A properly optimized simple C++ program should be able to perform > > as well > > as C.

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 13:49 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On 12/22/2010 01:40 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les > > wrote: > > > > Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles around C? > > Just asking. > > > > > C+

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 01:52 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Feldman > wrote: > > A properly optimized simple C++ program should be able to perform > as well > as C. > > -- > Jerry Feldman > > > > Simply say, C++ is the daughter

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: A properly optimized simple C++ program should be able to perform as well > as C. -- > Jerry Feldman > Simply say, C++ is the daughter of C which has become more advanced. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.f

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 01:40 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les > wrote: > > Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles around C? > Just asking. > > C++ is NOT a preprocessor to C. Some of the original C++ systems certainly w

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: Since I cowrote the Alpha assembler for Windows NT and Tru64 Unix. Most > of the RISC chips had a large number of general purpose registers. The > trick is to use them effectively. You can easily use one as a base > register and one as an ind

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 05:31 AM, les wrote: > > But as I recall, the alpha had some vector extensions and bytecoding > extensions that enabled faster indexing, which is why it ran faster with > indexed arrays ;-) > > And as to representation, if you go to assembly language the choice of > octal or hex is of

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM, les wrote: Since C++ is a preprocessor to C, how does it run circles around C? > Just asking. > > Regards, > Les H > Absolutely no idea dude! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscriptio

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 15:43 +0530, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Matt Smith wrote: > > Can we please get c++ involved in the discussion, it runs > circles > around C on all levels.. > > > > > Ok. > > > -- > > Regards, > Pa

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 4:01 PM, les wrote: But as I recall, the alpha had some vector extensions and bytecoding > extensions that enabled faster indexing, which is why it ran faster with > indexed arrays ;-) > > And as to representation, if you go to assembly language the choice of > octal or he

Re: About programing, a general question

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:01 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: "C Programming: A Modern Approach" by King as it was a simpler book. > > -- > Jerry Feldman > I guess the better could be the same by K&R! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: > Top down design, procedures, arrays, pointers, etc. Other object oriented > programming. Techniques, algorithms,..., etc. Those were the good old days > :) Now there is java, looks like C++ but there is no , > , ..., There was no way to

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: There is considerable more overhead in compiling a C++ program. I would > probably guess that FORTRAN would win. Another issue is optimization. > Optimization can make major differences. On some RISC platforms we not > only used compiler opti

Re: About programing, a general question

On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 13:54 -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: > On 12/21/2010 01:16 PM, William Case wrote > > I am not a programmer, but I wanted the answer you seem to want. How > > does the damn thing work? More explicitly: > > > > How does human understandable information get converted by a machin

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 01:22 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:37 PM, David Liguori > wrote: > > But higher-level languages like C and Fortran ultimately produce a > stream of ones and > zeros that correspond to these instructions, source and tar

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote: int max 32768 > int min -32768 > > Need to use long declarations, I remember this 14-15 years ago :) > > It was fun! But wanted to finish school so I stopped taking comp. science > classes. Now it is Java, my nephew knows it, but does not

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:50 PM, David Liguori wrote: I don't know about the Fortran or Java (which is not, > strictly speaking, a "compiled" language). > Oh I see. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Colin Paul Adams wrote: But not design-by-contract. So Eiffel should be the default. > -- > Colin Adams > The person who is engaged with a programing language for years or who has spent years in some particular or one programing language cannot say other to go

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:37 PM, David Liguori wrote: But higher-level languages like C and Fortran ultimately produce a stream of > ones and > zeros that correspond to these instructions, source and target > registers, and data. > Any language (whatever be it is), I think finally is processed

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 01:15 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote: > Top down design, procedures, arrays, pointers, etc. Other object oriented > programming. Techniques, algorithms,..., etc. Those were the good old days > :) Now there is java, looks like C++ but there is no , , > ..., There was no way to get u

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 12:20 PM, David Liguori wrote: > Not in terms of executable file size or speed of execution. I took a > course in high performance scientific computing. An experiment we > performed was to write a program for the sum of three huge arrays, > repeated for larger and larger arrays, un

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Michael Hennebry < henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote: The *default* should be python even for object-oriented stuff. > Python allows polymorphism and operator overloading. > There are important differences: > In python, one cannot declare the type of a variabl

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: Books like K&R second edition are written in a more understandable format. > > -- > Jerry Feldman > I agree. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options:

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:26 PM, William Case wrote: > There is always a reason why things are done the way they are. > > -- > Regards Bill Correct. -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admi

Re: About programing, a general question

--- On Wed, 12/22/10, William Case wrote: > From: William Case > Subject: Re: About programing, a general question > To: "Community support for Fedora users" > Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 8:56 AM > On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 10:52 -0500, > Jerry Feldman wrote

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:25 PM, James Mckenzie wrote: Wikipedia has an article on the ANSI C standards. > > James McKenzie > Wikipedia is the father of articles, it would be having articles on all the things! -- Regards, Parshwa Murdia -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Matt Smith wrote: I suggested it for that reason, you can use c++ very easily as if it > was C and this allows for a much easier transition in the future. C++ > can be anything from super easy to super hard. There are many texts > that teach it on a basic level

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote: Once you have a firm grasp of the concepts of programming, you can move on > to things like OOP. > > -- > Jerry Feldman > That is the real thing! Whatever be the language, the computer process is one to process that!! -- Regards, Parshwa

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/21/2010 8:18 PM, Matt Smith wrote: > Can we please get c++ involved in the discussion, it runs circles > around C on all levels.. > > Not in terms of executable file size or speed of execution. I took a course in high performance scientific computing. An experiment we performed was to

Re: About programing, a general question

> "Michael" == Michael Hennebry writes: Michael> On Wed, 22 Dec 2010, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote: >> I agree with it being easier to migrate from C++, rather than to >> C++. Unfortunately C++ probably has a longer learning curve than >> most other programming languages. But th

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/16/2010 12:02 PM, Parshwa Murdia wrote: > hi, > > If one has to start from the scratch, from the zeroth level to do the > programing, which programing language one should start with? In the > ocean of the languages, to start with is really very typical. Can one > justify it. Some say Pytho

Re: About programing, a general question

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote: > I agree with it being easier to migrate from C++, rather than to C++. > Unfortunately C++ probably has a longer learning curve than most other > programming languages. But the choice of programming language should > really be decided by the type of

Re: About programing, a general question

On 12/22/2010 11:55 AM, James Mckenzie wrote: > Parshwa Murdia wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 8:01 PM, James Mckenzie >> wrote: >> >> It is the 'bible' for programming in C and discusses everything in the >>> language. You can also find the ANSI/ISO standards as well on the Internet >>> (for f

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