On 08/07/2012 08:54 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:14:27 +0200
Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
IPv6 is the future but as someone has already written in lot of cases
it's not supported by routers and ISP's so having it enabled in your OS
is pointless. I'll revers your argumentation -
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 15:01 -0500, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> I said at _boot_, not after the system is up and running.
And so did I... Some of these "new hardware found" notices *are*/*were*
during bootup.
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686
Don't send private replies to my add
On 2012/08/07 17:41, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/07/2012 05:22 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
You were lucky. I'm dead certain he didn't agree, but at least he shut up.
It's a lot nastier when they really want to argue.
If he'd tried arguing, I probably would have laughed at him. After all, I was
the one u
On 08/07/2012 05:22 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
You were lucky. I'm dead certain he didn't agree, but at least he shut up.
It's a lot nastier when they really want to argue.
If he'd tried arguing, I probably would have laughed at him. After all,
I was the one using the card and I could point to my
Once, long ago--actually, on Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 01:22:45PM -0700--Joe Zeff
(j...@zeff.us) said:
> On 08/07/2012 01:05 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> I still remember when configuring X included selecting by hand the
> proper driver for your card, and how badly things would fsck
> themselves up if you h
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On 08/07/2012 02:54 PM, jdow wrote:
> On 2012/08/07 12:09, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>>
>> On 08/07/2012 01:19 PM, jdow wrote:
>>> Removing PATA "because I'll never use it" leads to you discovering
>>> "never" is often not that far away. (PATA seems
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On 08/07/2012 02:55 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/07/2012 12:09 PM, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> You are not the only packrat when it comes to old disks. I still
>> have a couple of 8" floppies yet, as well as some paper tape. I
>> think I still have a
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On 08/07/2012 03:22 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>
> I still remember when configuring X included selecting by hand the
proper driver for your card, and how badly things would fsck
themselves up if you had the wrong one. At the time, I was using a
Virge S3 car
On 08/07/2012 01:05 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote:
Once, long ago--actually, on Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 11:35:35AM -0700--Joe Zeff
(j...@zeff.us) said:
>Then I booted into Linux. It Just Worked.
Again, to be fair, initial X configuration has been less than a joyous
experience on many Linux distros. It's
Once, long ago--actually, on Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 11:35:35AM -0700--Joe Zeff
(j...@zeff.us) said:
> Then I booted into Linux. It Just Worked.
Again, to be fair, initial X configuration has been less than a joyous
experience on many Linux distros. It's gotten better--much better--but is
still th
Once, long ago--actually, on Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:45:07AM +0930--Tim
(ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au) said:
> You've never had Windows notice that you've plugged in a new mouse, new
> hard drive, graphics card, et cetera, and seen it grunt through the "new
> hardware detected" routine, that often
On 08/07/2012 12:09 PM, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
You are not the only packrat when it comes to old disks. I still
have a couple of 8" floppies yet, as well as some paper tape. I
think I still have an 8" drive around here somewhere, and a
controller to hook it to.
If you do, and are thinking o
On 2012/08/07 12:09, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
On 08/07/2012 01:19 PM, jdow wrote:
On 2012/08/07 04:29, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
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On 08/06/2012 11:29 PM, jdow wrote:
On 2012/08/06 19:17, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Disabling it because the sy
On 08/07/2012 11:23 AM, jdow wrote:
Repeating
precisely the same actions and expecting different results is
foolish, and getting different results is frightening.
AIUI, constantly repeating the same actions and expecting different
results is part of the original cargo cults, but in that case,
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On 08/07/2012 01:19 PM, jdow wrote:
> On 2012/08/07 04:29, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
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>> On 08/06/2012 11:29 PM, jdow wrote:
>>> On 2012/08/06 19:17, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Disabl
On 2012/08/07 11:35, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/07/2012 11:15 AM, Tim wrote:
You've never had Windows notice that you've plugged in a new mouse, new
hard drive, graphics card, et cetera, and seen it grunt through the "new
hardware detected" routine, that often fails?
Back when I was still dual-boot
On 08/07/2012 11:15 AM, Tim wrote:
You've never had Windows notice that you've plugged in a new mouse, new
hard drive, graphics card, et cetera, and seen it grunt through the "new
hardware detected" routine, that often fails?
Back when I was still dual-booting this box, I upgraded the video car
On 2012/08/07 05:22, Dave Ihnat wrote:
Once, long ago--actually, on Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 09:29:49PM -0700--jdow
(j...@earthlink.net) said:
Then I discovered a property of Windows. If your motherboard goes
bad and you can't replace it with an exact replacement the system and
all other software i
On 2012/08/07 04:40, Tom Horsley wrote:
So here's one that always leaves me wondering: The #1 original
admin advice that *ought* to be Cargo Cult except for the
fact that it actually works quite often: "reinstall the
program".
It is recommended far more often on Windows than on Linux,
but I see
On 2012/08/07 04:29, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
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On 08/06/2012 11:29 PM, jdow wrote:
On 2012/08/06 19:17, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Disabling it because the system you are compiling the kernel for
will not support the hardware. No need for SATA,
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 10:35 -0500, Dave Ihnat wrote:
> A generic Linux installation seems better at detecting hardware
> changes "on the fly".
Yes, noticing it, and correctly getting it to work, without you
scrabbling around for driver discs, or files off the net.
> Windows doesn't really check f
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 07:54 -0400, John Aldrich wrote:
> With respect to SELinux... I really have no idea whether it's
> currently enabled, enabled in "permissive" mode or disabled (I *think*
> it may be in "permissive" mode, but I wouldn't swear to it.) However,
> I got to thinking... it needs t
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 16:44 +0200, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> Reinstalling a program on Linux is almost always useless.
> If a "rpm -V" comes out clean, you will not get very far
> with a reinstall.
>
> On Windows it usually works because of poor handling of
> dependencies and DLL-hell (reinstalling
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On 08/07/2012 10:28 AM, John Aldrich wrote:
> Quoting Dave Ihnat :
>
>> Once, long ago--actually, on Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 09:29:49PM
-0700--jdow (j...@earthlink.net) said:
>>> Then I discovered a property of Windows. If your motherboard goes
>>> bad a
Once, long ago--actually, on Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 11:28:09AM -0400--John
Aldrich (jmaldr...@yahoo.com) said:
> Yes...but if your Linux box is set up with a generic, modular
> kernel, chances are you won't have to re-install Linux, where, as
> you point out, with Windows, you'll have to do a "repai
Quoting Dave Ihnat :
Once, long ago--actually, on Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 09:29:49PM
-0700--jdow (j...@earthlink.net) said:
Then I discovered a property of Windows. If your motherboard goes
bad and you can't replace it with an exact replacement the system and
all other software installed on that
On 08/07/2012 01:40 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> So here's one that always leaves me wondering: The #1 original
> admin advice that *ought* to be Cargo Cult except for the
> fact that it actually works quite often: "reinstall the
> program".
>
> It is recommended far more often on Windows than on Linu
On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:14:27 +0200
Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
> IPv6 is the future but as someone has already written in lot of cases
> it's not supported by routers and ISP's so having it enabled in your OS
> is pointless. I'll revers your argumentation - it doesn't add any value
> in such syste
Once, long ago--actually, on Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 09:29:49PM -0700--jdow
(j...@earthlink.net) said:
> Then I discovered a property of Windows. If your motherboard goes
> bad and you can't replace it with an exact replacement the system and
> all other software installed on that disk are suddenly u
On 06.08.2012 22:38, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 01:29 PM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
>> On 06.08.2012 15:52, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>>> Tim wrote:
Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites,
and the
idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have
With respect to SELinux... I really have no idea whether it's
currently enabled, enabled in "permissive" mode or disabled (I *think*
it may be in "permissive" mode, but I wouldn't swear to it.) However,
I got to thinking... it needs to be set up more like an antivirus
program, i.e. smart en
So here's one that always leaves me wondering: The #1 original
admin advice that *ought* to be Cargo Cult except for the
fact that it actually works quite often: "reinstall the
program".
It is recommended far more often on Windows than on Linux,
but I see folks say it on Linux as well, and the tot
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On 08/06/2012 11:29 PM, jdow wrote:
> On 2012/08/06 19:17, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>>
>> Disabling it because the system you are compiling the kernel for
>> will not support the hardware. No need for SATA, PCI, or cardbus
>> stuff on a system that
On 6 August 2012 21:53, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 01:40 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> Well, the thing is that SELinux often has effects that aren't
>> particularly obvious. After upgrading to F15 I found I couldn't log in
>> without disabling SELinux. At that point you can either try and fix
>
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 15:47 -0500, Steven Stern wrote:
> For true Cargo Cult, emulate your internet provider's technical
> support. "Please reboot your computer and ...
Ah, yes, I forgot that one (reboot every time you change a minor
setting).
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc
On 2012/08/06 19:17, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
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On 08/06/2012 03:38 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/06/2012 01:29 PM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
On 06.08.2012 15:52, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Tim wrote:
Just look at the feature list on the documenta
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:06 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> It looks like I may have created a new use of Cargo Cult, based on
> Cargo Cult Programming.
Like a lot of words, the interpretation depends on the person. Some see
"cargo cult" as some sort of ritual that must be done for some reason.
Other's
Mikkel L. Ellertson:
>> Compiling a kernel for a laptop will let you eliminate a lot of
>> drivers because you only have limited hardware changes...
Michael Cronenworth:
> This might have made since in 1999 when Linux was first getting started
> and every byte mattered. However, today, with terab
On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 08:52 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> I can think of one item you missed from your list:
>
> Disable IPv6 (disabling it cures cancer!)
Actually, I don't have a problem with disabling that. Depending on your
reasons, though...
In my case, short of replacing my modem/ro
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On 08/06/2012 10:05 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 09:17 PM, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> Compiling a kernel for a laptop will let you eliminate a lot of
>> drivers because you only have limited hardware changes...
>
> This might have
On 08/06/2012 09:17 PM, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Compiling a kernel for a laptop will let you eliminate a lot of
drivers because you only have limited hardware changes...
This might have made since in 1999 when Linux was first getting started
and every byte mattered. However, today, with ter
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On 08/06/2012 03:38 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 01:29 PM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
>> On 06.08.2012 15:52, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>>> Tim wrote:
Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or
websites, and the
idiot ad
On 08/06/2012 02:13 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
There are plenty of reasons for disabling SELINUX (well, this one is
for RHEL actually but hey, see
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/relnotes.112/e23558/toc.htm#CJADHDFJ)
and they're valid. On the other hand, it should be set to permissive
as discu
On 2012/08/06 14:13, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
On 6 August 2012 22:05, Joe Zeff wrote:
Which means, of course, that you have a good reason for starting out the
way you do. Not, IMAO, cargo cult.
There are plenty of reasons for disabling SELINUX (well, this one is
for RHEL actually but hey, see
h
On 6 August 2012 22:05, Joe Zeff wrote:
> Which means, of course, that you have a good reason for starting out the
> way you do. Not, IMAO, cargo cult.
There are plenty of reasons for disabling SELINUX (well, this one is
for RHEL actually but hey, see
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/relnotes
On 08/06/2012 01:59 PM, Steven Stern wrote:
I do, but they're generally my problem like copying stuff from ~ into
/var/www/html. Occasionally, something more serious. SELINUX has never
been completely clean for me.
Which means, of course, that you have a good reason for starting out the
way
On 2012/08/06 13:40, Ian Malone wrote:
On 6 August 2012 21:06, Joe Zeff wrote:
It looks like I may have created a new use of Cargo Cult, based on Cargo
Cult Programming. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming,
http://foldoc.org/cargo+cult) My thought was that disabling SELinux
On 08/06/2012 03:55 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/06/2012 01:47 PM, Steven Stern wrote:
>> I always start with SELINUX in permissive mode and run that way for a
>> couple of weeks while I monitor the messages.
>
> Permissive mode; not disabled, and you monitor the messages. Just out
> of curiosity,
On 08/06/2012 01:47 PM, Steven Stern wrote:
I always start with SELINUX in permissive mode and run that way for a
couple of weeks while I monitor the messages.
Permissive mode; not disabled, and you monitor the messages. Just out
of curiosity, do you generally get some when you first install?
On 08/06/2012 01:40 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
Well, the thing is that SELinux often has effects that aren't
particularly obvious. After upgrading to F15 I found I couldn't log in
without disabling SELinux. At that point you can either try and fix
the problem or ignore it and carry on with SELinux dis
On 08/06/2012 03:40 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 6 August 2012 21:06, Joe Zeff wrote:
>
>>
>> It looks like I may have created a new use of Cargo Cult, based on Cargo
>> Cult Programming. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming,
>> http://foldoc.org/cargo+cult) My thought was that di
On 6 August 2012 21:06, Joe Zeff wrote:
>
> It looks like I may have created a new use of Cargo Cult, based on Cargo
> Cult Programming. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming,
> http://foldoc.org/cargo+cult) My thought was that disabling SELinux as a
> first step in troubleshooti
On 08/06/2012 01:29 PM, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
On 06.08.2012 15:52, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Tim wrote:
Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites, and the
idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have a desktop that
still has normal menus, look through the
On 06.08.2012 15:52, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites, and the
>> idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have a desktop that
>> still has normal menus, look through the system admin items for more
>> ideas.
> I can
On 08/06/2012 04:35 AM, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 21:30 -0500, Javier Perez wrote:
>Is there any list of Cargo cult sysadmin practices for Fedora?
Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites, and the
idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have a desktop tha
Tim wrote:
> Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites, and the
> idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have a desktop that
> still has normal menus, look through the system admin items for more
> ideas.
I can think of one item you missed from your list:
Disable
On 08/06/2012 02:35 PM, Tim wrote:
Disabling SELinux
Disabling firewalls
Removing Pulseaudio
OK for these.
Not for the rest. :-P
--
RMA.
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Gui
On Sat, 2012-08-04 at 21:30 -0500, Javier Perez wrote:
> Is there any list of Cargo cult sysadmin practices for Fedora?
Just look at the feature list on the documentation, or websites, and the
idiot admins will target them first. And, if you have a desktop that
still has normal menus, look throug
On 08/05/2012 03:30 AM, Javier Perez wrote:
> Hi
>
> Is there any list of Cargo cult sysadmin practices for Fedora?
A perennial favourite:
* disable, remove and BURN WITH FIRE pulseaudio at the first sign of any
sound playback trouble. It doesn't matter if it caused it. It must be
purged and pun
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