es.
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:59:48 -, Pilgrim, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: 16 November 2004 17:46
Struts :-)
Oh happy day!
:-D
- Original Message -
From: "Dakota Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
No pain no big bucks. Where'
t; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
>
> > Jack,
> >
> > What I found was that alot of Java code to generate XML (using DOM API)
> > had to be added in the con
;Bill Siggelkow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Jack,
What I found was that alot of Java code to generate XML (using DOM API)
had to be added in the controller layer to facilitate the
view of that data
> > - and it should be
> > > >>>flexible.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>The problem with a smarter (or better worded: more
> > capable) view is that
> > > >>>people start doing things in the
: talking about paradigms
Bill,
Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The important thing, I
think, is to make sure that the framework leaves that option open for
those that want it and does not require that option to those who do
not want it. I am not privy to the details of your applic
> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 16 November 2004 17:46
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The important thi
it into the model
as it was nicer than using java code in the jsps. There are various other
methods - such as retrieving chunks of text with \n into , which can now
mostly be handled with jstl.
Daniel.
-Original Message-----
From: Rosenberg, Leon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 November
u have getStartDate() which returns a date, and getFormattedStartDate()
> >>>which returns a formatted string. This code should be in the view as it is
> >>>purely for view purposes, but i made the decision to bodge it into the
> >>>model
> >>>as it was
Very interesting stuff, Adam. Very interesting!
I do not see the filter as determining what the view would be but
merely as providing data that would become part of the workflow as
kept in the View Stores. The view would decide on what it wanted to
do about this information in terms of present
Using filters and different modules for delivering different HTML for
different browsers is known in the HTML/CSS world as browser sniffing,
and is frowned on by the HTML designer purists, but in the real world
such modules could definitely be a highly attractive.
Alot would depend on what you
---Original Message-
From: Rosenberg, Leon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 November 2004 13:44
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: AW: talking about paradigms
No, but what about
?
(not sure about the syntax).
whats the problem?
MVC usually allows 'read-only access to model' for
t; _pointers_ in java; if you don't believe me, try some books written by
> java developers (i.e. Joshua Bloch, Effective Java Programming Language
> Guide,
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201310058/qid=1100601935/
> sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0821267-8
so
damm nice to anyone who's used c!
Daniel.
>
> Just my .2 cents
> Lucas
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Struts User" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dakota Jack"
> <[EMAIL PROTE
ing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dakota Jack"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: AW: talking about paradigms
>
> > I agree with Jack. There are pointers everywhere in Java. Java learns
> > from C++
ferences.
Whats next on the agenda? Explaining why there are no calls by reference in
java? :-)
Regards
Leon
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. November 2004 15:43
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff
PROTECTED]>
To
"Struts Users Mailing
List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc
Subject
AW: talking about paradigms
Hi Eddie,
thanx for your reply, I will put it in my poetry album, and reread eat,
each time I'm asking myself about the sense of the living...
Sad, but my p
Hello, Adam,
You are definitely right that this is a crucial part of any web
application, and not only for browsers but also for flash, javascript,
etc. versions. This is so important in the overall picture for web
programming that perhaps a whole separate set of interfaces amounting
to a separat
L PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: AW: talking about paradigms
> I agree with Jack. There are pointers everywhere in Java. Java learns
> from C++ mistake by "hiding" error prone functionality such as
> pointers.
>
> Joshua Block's
I agree with Jack. There are pointers everywhere in Java. Java learns
from C++ mistake by "hiding" error prone functionality such as
pointers.
Joshua Block's book is not a Java Book for beginner. It is target for
experience developer. Probably you should look into Bruce Eckel's
on-line book for mo
Hello, Leon,
There are pointers in Java. Every object is referenced by a pointer.
Indeed, how else could an object be referenced? I am not sure why you
cited Joshua Bloch's book on this. There is not, as Eddie said,
pointer arithmetic.
Jack
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:46:05 +0100, Rosenberg, Leo
All mixed up below
> -Original Message-
> From: Rosenberg, Leon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 16 November 2004 10:58
> To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> Subject: AW: talking about paradigms
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> I like you kind of "cas
gards
Leon
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Montag, 15. November 2004 20:46
> An: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: talking about paradigms
>
> The whole discussion about MVC and web frameworks i
CTED]
> Sent: 16 November 2004 04:22
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
>
>
> IMHO, you have to be very careful with the XML/XSLT solution.
>
> I worked on a project about two years ago (probably closer to three now
> actually) where we ha
on: Eddie Bush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. November 2004 03:26
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: talking about paradigms
>
> Leon,
>
> Being a developer is like ... being a Jedi Knight. You seek the good
and
> thrive on it, but are fore
Jack,
one thing you missed off the diagram is the HTML reader. A public
website often has to cater for:
- old browsers like Netscape 4
- text only browsers like lynx
- PDA browsers with no javascript etc
- spiders which ignore sessions
- screen readers for the blind
all of which make strong deman
a lot of code in the model beans
> >>>that was put there pre jstl for formatting things like dates, or text. So
> >>>you have getStartDate() which returns a date, and getFormattedStartDate()
> >>>which returns a formatted string. This code should be in the view as
de the decision to bodge it into the model
as it was nicer than using java code in the jsps. There are various other
methods - such as retrieving chunks of text with \n into , which can now
mostly be handled with jstl.
Daniel.
-Original Message-
From: Rosenberg, Leon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTE
poses, but i made the decision to bodge it into the model
> > as it was nicer than using java code in the jsps. There are various other
> > methods - such as retrieving chunks of text with \n into , which can now
> > mostly be handled with jstl.
> >
> > Daniel.
> >
> &g
AMEN TO THAT. What a PITA ... UGH I don't like that! PAIN!
Try to debug that mess!
- Original Message -
From: "Bill Siggelkow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Sorry, I
l,
Eddie
- Original Message -
From: "Rosenberg, Leon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: AW: talking about paradigms
> No, but what about
>
> ?
> (not sure abou
"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
~Native Proverb~
"Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows."
~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> &g
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 November 2004 13:44
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: AW: talking about paradigms
No, but what about
?
(not sure about the syntax).
whats the problem?
MVC usually allows 'read-only access to model' for the view
Also the question is, what you expose to the v
To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: talking about paradigms
>
>
> I think the idea that MVC architecture should have a 'dumb view' is totally
> wrong. The view should be as smart as possible.
>
> MVC should separate the M, V and C. With a really smart view yo
13:44
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: AW: talking about paradigms
>
>
>
>
> > > No, but what about
> > >
> > > ?
> > > (not sure about the syntax).
> > whats the problem?
> > MVC usually allows 'read-only access to model&
> > No, but what about
> >
> > ?
> > (not sure about the syntax).
> whats the problem?
> MVC usually allows 'read-only access to model' for the view
> Also the question is, what you expose to the view.
> If you are afraid that somebody will misuse the library entries -
don't
> expose them.
> I
On 2004-11-11 at 11:24:14 +0100, Rosenberg, Leon wrote:
>
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Mark Lowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. November 2004 11:04
> > An: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Betreff: Re: talking about
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:42:27 +0100, Rosenberg, Leon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> since we started talking about paradigms... how does JSTL and especially
> EL fit into MVC paradigm?
>
Much of JSTL is clearly about view tier stuff -- things like
conditionals and l
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Mark Lowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. November 2004 11:04
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: talking about paradigms
>
> I don't think EL breaks the MVC pattern. Although it leaves you
ssing view
issues in your actions or even action forms.
Mark
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:42:27 +0100, Rosenberg, Leon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> since we started talking about paradigms... how does JSTL and especially
> EL fit into MVC paradigm?
>
> Or, the better qu
Hi,
since we started talking about paradigms... how does JSTL and especially
EL fit into MVC paradigm?
Or, the better question, why does struts support EL nowadays, when it
breaks the paradigm?
Regards
Leon
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