Re: [UAI] This is Rich Neaolitan's rsponse to the determinism discussion with Kathy L.

2006-08-28 Thread Kathryn Blackmond Laskey
Dear Rich, >...based on everything E that happens up to some point in time, >something R ends up happening at the next instant. If that event is >not deterministically determined by E, then what does determine it? >... something made it happen... ... even if it is some random number >generator

Re: [UAI] Determinism verses chance

2006-08-28 Thread Rich
Dear Kathy, I think Doug pretty much articulated my position. You (Kathy) said the following (in reverse order): KATHY: "But a meaningful definition of "full knowledge" for a probability assessment would have to include only events occurring at times before the event in question. I suspect Ca

Re: [UAI] Determinism verses chance

2006-08-28 Thread Kathryn Blackmond Laskey
I've discovered that things that are blinding obvious to me are not necessarily blinding obvious to other people. :-) I agree with you that we can't rule out intrinsically deterministic theories. You say it would "probably not be hard" to postulate a deterministic theory that matches the pr

Re: [UAI] Determinism verses chance

2006-08-28 Thread Doug Morgan
Kathy, A blinding obvious answer is that both "sides" are completely jumping the gun in making any choice on these issues. Quantum field theory is intrinsically probabilistic. However, it is just a good (OK, spectacular) model. It doesn't mean that there isn't something entirely determinist

Re: [UAI] Determinism verses chance

2006-08-28 Thread Kathryn Blackmond Laskey
>§ Incidentally, isn't Pearl's theory of >causality deterministic but yet probabilistic? Pearl's early work dealt with causal Bayesian networks with intrinsically stochastic causal mechanisms, but in his later work he moved toward Laplacian determinism and the view that probability re

[UAI] This is Rich Neaolitan's rsponse to the determinism discussion with Kathy L.

2006-08-28 Thread Rich Neapolitan
Dear Kathy,   I think Doug pretty much articulated my position. You (Kathy) said the following (in reverse order): KATHY: "But a meaningful definition of "full knowledge" for a probability assessment would have to include only events occurring at times before the event in question. I suspect Ca

Re: [UAI] Determinism verses chance

2006-08-28 Thread Kathryn Blackmond Laskey
Dear Rich, This is probably much more than you bargained for, but you asked for it! :-) The Oxford American Dictionary defines objective as "having real existence outside a person's mind." Strict subjectivists such as de Finetti and Savage regard probabilities as entirely subjective except f

[UAI] Determinism versus Choice

2006-08-28 Thread Lotfi A. Zadeh
Dear Rich, Your interesting question stirred a lively discussion. Your question raised another question: Is the conceptual structure of probability theory an appropriate framework for formulating a definitive answer to your question? In my view, the answer is: No. The problem is: probability t