Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
Hans Petter, Before I address your technical points, I would observe that your tone here isn't ideal for getting people excited about your ideas. If you think there's something that people don't understand, then by all means explain it, but telling people that they have a "total lack of kernel-sid

[TLS] potential security concern regarding the exchange of client certificates during the TLS handshake process

2023-03-26 Thread Yannick LaRue
Dear TLS Working Group, I am writing to bring to your attention a potential security concern regarding the exchange of client certificates during the TLS handshake process. While the use of client certificates for authentication is a useful security measure, it also presents a risk in terms of

[TLS] Proposal to Enhance TLS Mutual Authentication Security

2023-03-26 Thread Yannick LaRue
Dear TLS Working Group, I am writing to propose a new method for enhancing the security of mutual authentication in TLS. The current TLS protocol requires the exchange of client and server certificates in cleartext during the initial handshake, which exposes sensitive client information to pote

Re: [TLS] potential security concern regarding the exchange of client certificates during the TLS handshake process

2023-03-26 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 02:18:58AM +, Yannick LaRue wrote: > [...] This means that information such as the client's name, email > address, and other identifying details are transmitted in cleartext, > potentially allowing for interception and exploitation by malicious > actors. This is true f

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
Hi, The problem is also incompletely described, right? It doesn't address stuff like: https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack There, you have userspace networking right off the NIC using DPDK or equivalent. This is how all big websites work (this one is from Tencent), because it's easier to drain con

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Patrick Kelsey
Hi Rob, Without wading into the other technicals of the discussion at this point, I just wanted to comment that there is at least one significant exception to your absolute statement below ( "no one with a serious load..."), and it's quite possible given the circumstantial information here that th

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:06 PM Patrick Kelsey wrote: > Absent that one giant slice of internet traffic, I would agree your point > does broadly apply (and I'm well familiar with user-space networking - for > example, the core of f-stack project you mentioned was originally > misappropriated code

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Boris Pismenny
Hi, The hardware offload Hans is referring to is for AES-GCM, and the integrity protection is the Galois MAC; SHA has nothing to do with it. As it happens, my ANRP talk at the IRTF open meeting today (13:00) will explain how TLS offload in Mellanox NICs works, and hopefully it will clarify what's

Re: [TLS] Proposal to Enhance TLS Mutual Authentication Security

2023-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
AS Viktor noted in a separate e-mail TLS 1.3 already encrypts the client certificate. -Ekr On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 4:00 PM Yannick LaRue wrote: > Dear TLS Working Group, > > > > I am writing to propose a new method for enhancing the security of mutual > authentication in TLS. The current TLS p

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Watson Ladd
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 5:05 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > Hi, > > The problem is also incompletely described, right? > > It doesn't address stuff like: > https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack > > There, you have userspace networking right off the NIC using DPDK or > equivalent. This is how all big websites w

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:51 PM Watson Ladd wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 5:05 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The problem is also incompletely described, right? >> >> It doesn't address stuff like: >> https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack >> >> There, you have userspace networking right of

[TLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-rfc8446bis-07.txt

2023-03-26 Thread internet-drafts
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Transport Layer Security (TLS) WG of the IETF. Title : The Transport Layer Security (TLS) Protocol Version 1.3 Author : Eric Rescorla Filename

[TLS] draft-ietf-tls-rfc8446bis-07

2023-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
I have just posted draft-ietf-tls-rfc8446bis-07 This incorporates the following changes: - Updated text about differences from RFC 8446. - Clarify which parts of IANA considerations are new to this document. - Upgrade the requirement to initiate key update before exceeding key usage limits to M

[TLS] RedHat Interview

2023-03-26 Thread Chad Harrelson
To whom it may concern. My name is Chad Harrelson. I am a Senior Solutions Architect at Red Hat and I am developing a presentation about the role of TLS in modern software communication methods, and specifically within RedHat products such as RedHat Enterprise Linux and Openshift Container Platf

Re: [TLS] Packet number encryption negotiation

2023-03-26 Thread Kazuho Oku
2023年2月14日(火) 14:31 Christian Huitema : > > > On 2/13/2023 7:57 PM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 04:22:48PM +1300, Marten Seemann wrote: > > > >> It hides certain bits of the header, as well as the packet number, > >> from an on-path observer. This is crucial to prevent middl