[TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread David Benjamin
Hi folks, This is a proposal for revising SignatureAlgorithm/HashAlgorithm. In TLS 1.2, signature algorithms are spread across the handshake. We have SignatureAlgorithm, NamedGroup/Curve (for ECDSA), and HashAlgorithm, all in independent registries. NamedGroup is sent in one list, also used for (E

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread Brian Smith
David Benjamin wrote: > 4. Deprecate ecdsa_sha256, etc., in favor of new > ecdsa_{p256,p384,p521}_{sha256,sha384,sha512} allocations. The old ecdsa_* > values are for TLS 1.2 compatibility but ignored in TLS 1.3. Although this > introduces new premultiplications, it’s only 9 values with the prune

[TLS] Fwd: New Non-WG Mailing List: Lurk -- Limited Use of Remote Keys

2016-01-15 Thread Stephen Farrell
We discussed this topic briefly at IETF94 and in more detail at the Marnew workshop. There seemed to be at least enough interest for a list so... Cheers, S. PS: I'd say best to wait 'till next Wednesday or so to start list discussion so that folks have time to join the list. Forwarded

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread Dave Garrett
On Friday, January 15, 2016 03:45:34 pm David Benjamin wrote: > This is a proposal for revising SignatureAlgorithm/HashAlgorithm. In TLS > 1.2, signature algorithms are spread across the handshake. [...] > I propose we fold the negotiable parameters under one name. [...] > 2. Remove HashAlgorithm,

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread David Benjamin
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:08 PM Brian Smith wrote: > David Benjamin wrote: > >> 4. Deprecate ecdsa_sha256, etc., in favor of new >> ecdsa_{p256,p384,p521}_{sha256,sha384,sha512} allocations. The old ecdsa_* >> values are for TLS 1.2 compatibility but ignored in TLS 1.3. Although this >> introduc

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread David Benjamin
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:07 PM Dave Garrett wrote: > On Friday, January 15, 2016 03:45:34 pm David Benjamin wrote: > > This is a proposal for revising SignatureAlgorithm/HashAlgorithm. In TLS > > 1.2, signature algorithms are spread across the handshake. > [...] > > I propose we fold the negotia

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 5:19 PM, David Benjamin wrote: > On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:07 PM Dave Garrett > wrote: > >> On Friday, January 15, 2016 03:45:34 pm David Benjamin wrote: >> > This is a proposal for revising SignatureAlgorithm/HashAlgorithm. In TLS >> > 1.2, signature algorithms are sprea

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread David Benjamin
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:10 PM David Benjamin wrote: > If changing the existing meaning is a nuisance, another option is to > continue to allocate new values but only define ecdsa_p256_sha256, > ecdsa_p384_sha384, and ecdsa_p521_sha512 (or whatever your favorite subset > is) for TLS 1.3 and late

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread Brian Smith
David Benjamin wrote: > (Whether such certificates exist on the web is probably answerable via CT > logs, but I haven't checked.) > Me neither, and I think that's the key thing that would need to be checked to see if my suggestion is viable. 3. You get better interoperability with TLS 1.2's NSA

Re: [TLS] Simplifying signature algorithm negotiation

2016-01-15 Thread Ilari Liusvaara
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 01:10:06AM +, David Benjamin wrote: > On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:08 PM Brian Smith wrote: > > Hrm. That hadn't occurred to me, no. Fewer values sounds good, if we can > lose them. I just wrote out all 9 without thinking about it much. Apart > from "please don't cause me