Nashville, TN has a population of over 600,000 people, but, outside the
central core of the city, less than half the streets have sidewalks. The
primary reason for this is that most of the city's growth has been in the
last 50 years, and the planners assumed that everyone would be traveling by
2015-11-25 22:18 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes :
> > People with vision impairments or wheelchairs can't - so directing
> > them to crosswalks with kerb cuts/slopes and assisted signals
> > (sounds, etc) sounds like the proper thing to do.
>
> I agree, but it should not be done at the expense of pedestr
Javbw
> On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:18 AM, Philip Barnes wrote:
>
> adding parallel ways which do not exist on the
> ground.
Sidewalks are parallel ways with very different access restrictions that exist
on the ground - so I'm not sure what you mean. I can easily see them and their
crosswalks and
> On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:09 AM, Philip Barnes wrote:
>
> Wheelchair routing would need to used sloped curbs, in most cases in a
> residential area these will be driveways
If they are in a residential area with sidewalks, then the sidewalks and their
junctions with the roads are mappable. And t
On Wed, 2015-11-25 at 10:27 +0900, John Willis wrote:
>
> > On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Philip Barnes
> > wrote:
> >
> > Remember
> > normal pedestrians can cross wherever they want
>
>
> People with vision impairments or wheelchairs can't - so directing
> them to crosswalks with kerb cuts/sl
On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 16:51 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Philip Barnes
> wrote:
> > They are not matching reality, can cause long detours and poor
> > routing
> > unless the mapper provides a lot of connections to the road.
> > Remember
> > normal pedestrians c
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 15:22 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Tobias Knerr
> > wrote:
> > > Sure, but the sidewalk attribute is essential for other, much more
> > > basic
> > > use cases that separate ways
2015-11-25 8:59 GMT+01:00 Mateusz Konieczny :
> "unless the mapper provides a lot of connections to the
> road" - or data is properly used.
can you elaborate on this? How can you use data properly if important
information is missing (which footway belongs to which road, how are they
separated o
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 00:14:48 +
Philip Barnes wrote:
> On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 15:22 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Tobias Knerr
> > wrote:
> > > Sure, but the sidewalk attribute is essential for other, much more
> > > basic
> > > use cases that separate w
> On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Philip Barnes wrote:
>
> Remember
> normal pedestrians can cross wherever they want
People with vision impairments or wheelchairs can't - so directing them to
crosswalks with kerb cuts/slopes and assisted signals (sounds, etc) sounds like
the proper thing to d
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> They are not matching reality, can cause long detours and poor routing
> unless the mapper provides a lot of connections to the road. Remember
> normal pedestrians can cross wherever they want.
>
That is true, but what we want to give someo
On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 15:22 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Tobias Knerr
> wrote:
> > Sure, but the sidewalk attribute is essential for other, much more
> > basic
> > use cases that separate ways fail to serve.
> >
> Can you elaborate on why separate ways fail to
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote:
> Sure, but the sidewalk attribute is essential for other, much more basic
> use cases that separate ways fail to serve.
>
Can you elaborate on why separate ways fail to serve?
>
> > I don't think relations are the right answer either. It is
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:09:23AM +0900, johnw wrote:
> having the man_made=bridge share layers with the roads and sidewalks does
> work for all but a handful of bridges (I like that tag) - but assuming the
> bridge is a single layer really makes things difficult for large/iconic/odd
> bridges
On 24.11.2015 17:21, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the input. As much as I like the concept of using
> the sidewalk attribute to the road, it doesn't seem like it is all that
> useful for adding kerb slope.
Sure, but the sidewalk attribute is essential for other, much more basic
use c
Thanks everyone for the input. As much as I like the concept of using the
sidewalk attribute to the road, it doesn't seem like it is all that useful
for adding kerb slope. It wasn't pointed out, but one additional problem
with using the sidewalk attribute is that a new mapper will likely not look
a
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 5:24 AM, John Willis wrote:
> Jaywalking will get you a bored policeman giving you a ticket in Tokyo.
>
> They pride themselves in people who follow the rules and wait for
> crosswalks and such.
>
Seattle is one of the few cities in the US that actively hands out
jaywalki
On Tue Nov 24 15:39:45 2015 GMT, johnw wrote:
>
> > On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:32 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> > wrote:
> >
> > the road, they are quite capable of deciding which side to walk, where
> > to cross and whether it is simply easier to walk on the road.
>
>
> TL;DR:
> Although I care more
> On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:32 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:
>
> the road, they are quite capable of deciding which side to walk, where
> to cross and whether it is simply easier to walk on the road.
TL;DR:
Although I care more about the rendering than the routing, the routing in this
situat
2015-11-24 16:09 GMT+01:00 johnw :
> Speaking of layers & bridges..
actually, layers and bridges do not pose a problem, as long as it's all the
same bridge. One object is ok. In the case of the spiral bridge you might
need a relation to make it clear.
Cheers,
Martin
__
> On Nov 24, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:
>
> yes, it would eventually create problems in case e.g. a bridge spirals around
> itself (guess improbable case) similar to spiral stairs (maybe these wouldn't
> be called bridges but ramps). It worked for all bridges I have mapped
There is already a page on the wiki, especially section [1]. Those
properties are used by the wheelchair navigation tool mentioned at the
top of that page.
regards
m
[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelchair_routing#Sidewalks_and_properties
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 3:02 PM, wrote:
> O
2015-11-24 13:48 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes :
> A pedestrian simply needs to be told to follow
> the road, they are quite capable of deciding which side to walk, where
> to cross and whether it is simply easier to walk on the road.
>
that's partly true, but there are groups of people who could bene
On Tue Nov 24 13:40:38 2015 GMT, Marc Gemis wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> >
> > Sidewalks, unless they are physically separated in some way are an
> > integral part of the highway. Sidewalk tags can allow a router to, maybe
> > prefer, roads with sidewalks but th
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
>
> Sidewalks, unless they are physically separated in some way are an
> integral part of the highway. Sidewalk tags can allow a router to, maybe
> prefer, roads with sidewalks but there a lot of cases where this would
> just be plain annoying.
> On Nov 24, 2015, at 6:40 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>
> Jaywalking is a North American concept.
Jaywalking will get you a bored policeman giving you a ticket in Tokyo.
They pride themselves in people who follow the rules and wait for crosswalks
and such.
However the sidewalk "grid" di
On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 09:01 +0100, Marc Gemis wrote:
> In Belgium several primary/secondary roads go through town centers
> (e.g. [1], [2]), where the maximum speed is reduced to 50 km/h (same
> as for residential roads). Most people will cross the street where it
> is most suitable (especially ne
On 2015-11-24 13:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 2015-11-24 12:43 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :
>
>> One issue with dual carriageways (and now I think about it, also railway
>> lines) is about generalisations at certain zoom levels. If you zoom out
>> beyond a certain level, both halves of a DC
On Mon, 2015-11-23 at 19:14 -0500, Bryan Housel wrote:
> Current preference seems to be map sidewalks as separate ways tagged as
> `highway=footway + footway=sidewalk`.
>
> 1. As you mentioned, you can use sidewalk-specific tags (slope, surface)
> without affecting the adjacent highway.
> 2. The
2015-11-24 12:43 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :
> One issue with dual carriageways (and now I think about it, also railway
> lines) is about generalisations at certain zoom levels. If you zoom out
> beyond a certain level, both halves of a DC (or the individual tracks of a
> railway) would be better mode
One issue with dual carriageways (and now I think about it, also railway
lines) is about generalisations at certain zoom levels. If you zoom out
beyond a certain level, both halves of a DC (or the individual tracks of
a railway) would be better modelled as a single line. The
renderer/consumer ne
2015-11-24 11:45 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :
> So has the "street" relation just been born? It could solve some other
> puzzles as well: dual carriageways, cycle tracks, bridges...
bridges have been solved by introducing a revolutionary concept: a
dedicated object for an explicit bridge. It remains
.
Not that much a problem with the relation itself, more one of the
editors which could handle these cases better than they do now.
Gerd
Von: Colin Smale
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. November 2015 11:45
An: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Sidewalk
So has the "street" relation just been born? It could solve some other
puzzles as well: dual carriageways, cycle tracks, bridges...
On 2015-11-24 11:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 2015-11-24 11:30 GMT+01:00 Gerd Petermann :
>
>> And this problem is not easy to solve by programs.
>>
>> U
2015-11-24 11:30 GMT+01:00 Gerd Petermann :
> And this problem is not easy to solve by programs.
>
> Up to now I don't know any efficient algo that allows to
>
> find the nearest named road that goes parallel
>
> to a selected unnamed way. It would be of great help
>
> here.
>
we should ask cont
endet: Dienstag, 24. November 2015 11:20
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Sidewalk Tagging for Routing
2015-11-24 10:40 GMT+01:00 Richard Fairhurst
mailto:rich...@systemed.net>>:
Another issue with routing along pavements ("sidewalks") as separate
2015-11-24 10:40 GMT+01:00 Richard Fairhurst :
> Another issue with routing along pavements ("sidewalks") as separate ways
> is
> the name tag. IME pavement-mappers rarely add the street name to the
> pavement/sidewalk, but in fact the name applies to the pavement/sidewalk as
> much as to the bicy
John Willis wrote:
> Perhaps we can have a routing engine at will interpret
> a sidewalk with residential road junctions as being
> along a residential road and route for Jay Walking.
> [...]
> I would rather the router always error on the side of
> crosswalks
Jaywalking is a North American co
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Gerd Petermann
wrote:
> One of the problems that is not well solved is the switch
> between both tagging schemes. When I start to draw
> extra ways for the sidewalk, where do i stop this and how
> do I connect the sidewalk with the main road?
same problem exists f
Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Sidewalk Tagging for Routing
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:14 AM, Bryan Housel wrote:
> I don’t really buy the “mapping sidewalks as part of the road makes routing
> easier" argument, but I don’t work on routing software s
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
> And what about the obligation to walk on the left side of the road
> when there is no sidewalk ? Should a router take that into account and
> let you walk to the next road crossing to switch sides ? Would be
> pretty neat.
>
Not sure how feasi
In Belgium several primary/secondary roads go through town centers
(e.g. [1], [2]), where the maximum speed is reduced to 50 km/h (same
as for residential roads). Most people will cross the street where it
is most suitable (especially near [2] where the road is even pretty
narrow), not necessarily
On 24/11/2015 6:28 PM, John Willis wrote:
On Nov 24, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
The problem with separate ways, is that none of the current routers
will tell you that you have to cross the street to reach a house on
the other side of the road. Most likely, they will let you walk till
> On Nov 24, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
> The problem with separate ways, is that none of the current routers
> will tell you that you have to cross the street to reach a house on
> the other side of the road. Most likely, they will let you walk till
> the next street crossing and le
On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:14 AM, Bryan Housel wrote:
> I don’t really buy the “mapping sidewalks as part of the road makes routing
> easier" argument, but I don’t work on routing software so maybe there really
> is something complicated about routing that I am unaware of.
The problem with separ
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Bryan Housel wrote:
> I don’t really buy the “mapping sidewalks as part of the road makes
> routing easier" argument, but I don’t work on routing software so maybe
> there really is something complicated about routing that I am unaware of.
I believe Mapbox is wo
Current preference seems to be map sidewalks as separate ways tagged as
`highway=footway + footway=sidewalk`.
1. As you mentioned, you can use sidewalk-specific tags (slope, surface)
without affecting the adjacent highway.
2. The sidewalk and the road really are separate features.
3. New users l
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