Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 31.03.2014 10:52, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM, John Packer wrote: >> The advantage of not having "opposite" as a value is not to need to verify >> the >> country's driving_side to be able to tell which driving_side that way has. > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:51 PM, John Pa

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM, John Packer wrote: >The advantage of not having "opposite" as a value is not to need to verify the >country's driving_side to be able to tell which driving_side that way has. On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:51 PM, John Packer wrote: > I removed the value "opposite" fro

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

I removed the value "opposite" from the page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:driving_side&oldid=1008962 2014-03-28 19:27 GMT-03:00 Tobias Knerr : > On 27.03.2014 16:11, Pieren wrote: > > But you force the QA tools to search and load country relations even > > if they just ha

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 27.03.2014 16:11, Pieren wrote: > But you force the QA tools to search and load country relations even > if they just have to check locally a way. This is not a problem for > tools like osmose or keepright but it is a problem for tools like JOSM > validator. There are other reasons why JOSM and

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM, John Packer wrote: > Since we need to use validator rules anyway, we could use: > 1. driving_side is only allowed ways that belong to countries that have > driving_side specified; > 2. driving_side (on ways) must have the opposite value of the driving_side > speci

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

While I suggested the value "opposite" with the same reasoning as Pieren i.e. to guarantee this tag is used on ways only when necessary; the truth is there wouldn't be any guarantee because the values "left" and "right" still exist (though theorically only for countries). The advantage of *not* ha

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote: > Could you elaborate? The "left/right" is only on boundary relations. The "opposite" is only on ways. This will also avoid a proliferation of unnecessary "driving_side=left/right" on ways where it's only required for the non-default rule. Pi

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 23.03.2014 19:23, Pieren wrote: > I like the idea to use "left/right" on the global definition (on > relation) and "opposite" on exceptions (on ways). It's also easier for > QA tools I guess. I modified the wiki accordingly. Revert if you don't > like it. I don't like it, but before I consider

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Note that the article states that many countries allow use of both left-hand-drive and right-hand-drive vehicles on their roadways, which contradicts your earlier blanket statement that you have to change vehicles when at a border between a left-hand-traffic country and a right-hand-traffic cou

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

> I think having only one value (driving_side=opposite (or inverted)) would be > better to tag highways. On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Steve Doerr wrote: > On 22/03/2014 14:24, Tobias Knerr wrote: > I agree: let's leave it as-is but add the possibility of using it on ways to > mark exceptions

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

2014-03-23 2:37 GMT+01:00 John F. Eldredge : > Left-hand-driver cars are sometimes used in right-hand-drive countries, > and vice versa. So, changing cars at a national border where the driving > conventions differ is not mandatory in all cases. In fact, I have not > heard of any cases where it

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Left-hand-driver cars are sometimes used in right-hand-drive countries, and vice versa. So, changing cars at a national border where the driving conventions differ is not mandatory in all cases. In fact, I have not heard of any cases where it is mandatory. On March 21, 2014 3:24:21 PM CDT, F

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Philip Barnes wrote: > On Sat, 2014-03-22 at 18:31 +0900, John Willis wrote: > > Here in Japan, because of the imports - mostly German or vintage - > > most toll plazas have a "left hand drive" spot ticket taking and toll > > collection. > > > In France, at the st

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 22/03/2014 14:24, Tobias Knerr wrote: Changing it wouldn't be a problem, which is why I support adding highways as a use case. I just don't think changing the values would be an improvement. I agree: let's leave it as-is but add the possibility of using it on ways to mark exceptions. It's

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

You are right, since these streets are rare, there is no need to add the value "inverted". With a tag that has been used on 4 countries and 14 highways, it's a bit > too early to analyse mappers' interest imo. > Actually, it's not early, this tag was documented since early 2012. But let's hope thi

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 22.03.2014 14:30, John Packer: > I think having only one value (driving_side=opposite (or inverted)) > would be better to tag highways. > It is a little shameful to admit it, but sometimes I confuse left and > right; so by restricting this tag's values there wouldn't be any > confusion, and rest

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

> > The current values would work well for both streets and countries, so keep > them. Actually, that's why I want to change it. I think having only one value (driving_side=opposite (or inverted)) would be better to tag highways. It is a little shameful to admit it, but sometimes I confuse left an

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 21.03.2014 21:07, John Packer wrote: > There are, in my city, a couple of streets that have an /inverted/ > driving side. > So I am going to extend this tag's documentation to include ways that > have it's driving side opposite to it's country's normal driving side. That's a good and useful ext

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Sat, 2014-03-22 at 18:31 +0900, John Willis wrote: > Here in Japan, because of the imports - mostly German or vintage - > most toll plazas have a "left hand drive" spot ticket taking and toll > collection. > In France, at the start of Péages near the channel ports where there are a high number

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Here in Japan, because of the imports - mostly German or vintage - most toll plazas have a "left hand drive" spot ticket taking and toll collection. I was so surprised to see pics of kei cars in the US. This explains it. As a driver of a kei in Japan, I certainly wouldn't drive it in California,

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On 21/03/2014 20:42, Paul Johnson wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM, John Packer > wrote: There are, in my city, a couple of streets that have an /inverted/ driving side. So I am going to extend this tag's documentation to include ways that h

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

It's in town, it's not a real problem. Italians are flexible :-) On 21 March 2014 23:22, Philip Barnes wrote: > On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 23:13 +0100, Volker Schmidt wrote: > > I did not know that this tag exists. Funny, but but there is a street > > her in Padova, Italy, where this tag could be u

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 23:13 +0100, Volker Schmidt wrote: > I did not know that this tag exists. Funny, but but there is a street > her in Padova, Italy, where this tag could be used instead of the two > separate roads used at the moment: > http://goo.gl/maps/EZJVI > That looks scarey, minimal sign

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

I did not know that this tag exists. Funny, but but there is a street her in Padova, Italy, where this tag could be used instead of the two separate roads used at the moment: http://goo.gl/maps/EZJVI On 21 March 2014 22:29, Paul Johnson wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Philip Barnes

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Philip Barnes wrote: > You get other problems too, such as paying tolls. I was shouted at for > getting out of the car to pay put my card in the toll machine on The > Øresundsbron. French Peage staff have never had a problem with that. > This seems to be an issue

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

No worries! :D On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > Agreed, we map roads and attributes of those roads. Sorry, I thought you > were suggesting a tag with the meaning "cars have their steering wheels on > the left|right". > > Colin > > > > On 2014-03-21 22:06, Fernando Trebien wro

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 16:04 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote: > Most drivers prefer left hand drive in keep-right countries, and right > hand drive in keep-left countries because it greatly increases > visibility when overtaking. Having driven RHS vehicles in North > America, I can safely say it's not i

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Agreed, we map roads and attributes of those roads. Sorry, I thought you were suggesting a tag with the meaning "cars have their steering wheels on the left|right". Colin On 2014-03-21 22:06, Fernando Trebien wrote: > We only map the roads because we have an interest in using them, > right

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Driver_seating_position http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Restrictions_on_wrong-hand_drive_vehicles On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Fernando Trebi

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

We only map the roads because we have an interest in using them, right? Therefore, we also often map how vehicles are supposed to use these roads. See: access, oneway, maxspeed, surface, tracktype, smoothness, height, restriction, etc. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > Sorry,

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Fernando Trebien < fernando.treb...@gmail.com> wrote: > A change of driver > side requires either a change of vehicle or some special vehicle that > can drive on both sides. In the case of your city, driving side > changes, but driver side doesn't. You could includ

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

Sorry, bad idea. We map the roads, not the vehicles. It is not illegal to drive a car with the wheel on the "wrong" side - millions of Europeans do it regularly, both on holiday and because certain models of car are only made for certain markets. Let's stick to driving_side referring to the side

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 17:24 -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: > I wonder what you mean by "Is there any interest of using it on > countries?". It's been defined for countries, and is used on it, as > you said. > > You could simply tag the country with "driving_side=right/left" and > use the same (but

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

> It's been defined for countries, and is used on it, as you said. I don't think I said that, all I said was "according to taginfo it is used only *once* on a relation". If people aren't going to use it, I intend to restrict it's use to streets. It seems it wasn't formally proposed anyway. I don'

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM, John Packer wrote: > There are, in my city, a couple of streets that have an *inverted*driving > side. > So I am going to extend this tag's documentation to include ways that have > it's driving side opposite to it's country's normal driving side. > In the US, I

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

I wonder what you mean by "Is there any interest of using it on countries?". It's been defined for countries, and is used on it, as you said. You could simply tag the country with "driving_side=right/left" and use the same (but with the opposite value) on those streets. That said, I think driving

Re: [Tagging] Driving side

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 5:07 PM, John Packer wrote: > There is a tag documented on the wiki called driving_side=right/left. > > According to it's description, this tag should only be used on countries, > and it describes the side of the traffic in the whole country. > > So far so good, but accordi