On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:41 AM, John Smith wrote:
> On 6 May 2010 06:12, Roy Wallace wrote:
>> I would think a semi-colon delimited value would be better in this
>> case - certainly better than "multiple POIs", and no less supported
>> than "multiple relations" (right?)
>
> If an app supports rel
Roy Wallace writes:
> Ok, I'll give up. But I will just point out that, while you insist it
> is "just asking for trouble", imagine a wiki page that says something
> like:
>
> "If you're not sure whether the place should be tagged as an
> amenity=restaurant, cafe or fast_food, this flowchart is
On 6 May 2010 06:12, Roy Wallace wrote:
> I would think a semi-colon delimited value would be better in this
> case - certainly better than "multiple POIs", and no less supported
> than "multiple relations" (right?)
If an app supports relations, it wouldn't matter if there is 1 or 10,
however mos
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
> Am 05.05.2010 22:36, schrieb Roy Wallace:
>
>> There's only "room for grey" (w.r.t. the OSM definitions) if we want
>> there to be.
>
> Following the OSM discussions for years now I would say: That's an illusion.
Ok. Though I don't understand,
Am 05.05.2010 22:36, schrieb Roy Wallace:
> There's only "room for grey" (w.r.t. the OSM definitions) if we want
> there to be.
Following the OSM discussions for years now I would say: That's an illusion.
> I think I do understand your point, though, that you think it better
> to keep using thes
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
>
>> http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1179/amenity.gif
>
> You are asking for black and white definitions/decisions where there's
> lot's of room for grey.
There's only "room for grey" (w.r.t. the OSM definitions) if we want
there to be.
> What
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:09 AM, John Smith wrote:
>
> On 6 May 2010 01:06, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > yes, but what do you do if all those functions are primary? Sometimes
> > this is the case.
>
> Multiple POIs... or one node with multiple relations...
I would think a semi-colon delimited v
On 6 May 2010 01:06, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> yes, but what do you do if all those functions are primary? Sometimes
> this is the case.
Multiple POIs... or one node with multiple relations...
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2010/5/5 John Smith :
> the amenity=fast_food is the primary function of the POI, it has a
> secondary functions of cafe=yes, restaurant=yes and
> drive_through=yes...
yes, but what do you do if all those functions are primary? Sometimes
this is the case.
Gruß Martin
___
On 5 May 2010 18:30, Ulf Lamping wrote:
> BTW: The flowchart is using highly subjective language
> "heavily-advertised pseudo-food" which is *very* certainly not a good
> way to find a concensus. Why does it try to offence junk food fans? Oh,
> and the definition of "pseudo food" will very certain
Am 05.05.2010 07:47, schrieb Roy Wallace:
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:22 PM, John Smith wrote:
>> On 4 May 2010 18:14, Roy Wallace wrote:
>>> 1) allow for the specification of more than one type simultaneously,
>>> e.g. amenity=A;B, amenity=B;C, etc., or
>>> 2) change/specify in more detail the de
Am 05.05.2010 06:17, schrieb John F. Eldredge:
> Yes, that is the origin of the term. However, usage of words shifts over
> time, often into multiple meanings, depending upon context. From what I have
> heard, a "coffeehouse" in Amsterdam, Holland, now means a place that sells
> marijuana, not
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:22 PM, John Smith wrote:
> On 4 May 2010 18:14, Roy Wallace wrote:
>> 1) allow for the specification of more than one type simultaneously,
>> e.g. amenity=A;B, amenity=B;C, etc., or
>> 2) change/specify in more detail the definitions of A, B and C so that
>> they *are* m
At 2010-05-04 21:32, John Smith wrote:
>...
>amenity=fast_food
>cafe=yes/no
>seating/resturant=yes/no
>drive_through=yes/no
I've been using motorcar=yes/no for drive-through, similar to access. This
did require tweaking of the rendering style in JOSM, which had this tag too
far up in position (a
On 5 May 2010 14:39, Roy Wallace wrote:
> So amenity=fast_food + cafe=yes would be roughly equivalent to
> amenity=cafe + fast_food=yes? Interesting proposal. It seems like a
> plausible workaround for indicating a plurality of amenity=* values
> without resorting to a semicolon-delimited list - t
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:32 PM, John Smith wrote:
>
> It would be better to tag the primary function of a business, and add
> modifiers...
So amenity=fast_food + cafe=yes would be roughly equivalent to
amenity=cafe + fast_food=yes? Interesting proposal. It seems like a
plausible workaround for in
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:
>
> The entire reason such tagging is useful (vs. amenity=food) is that
> people can ask "find me a nearby cafe". When I ask that, I want a
> coffee shop that serves sandwiches, or a sandwich shop that serves
> coffee, or something like that --
On 5 May 2010 14:26, Roy Wallace wrote:
> Is there anything wrong with using:
> "amenity=cafe;fast_food;restaurant"? If not, that approach, plus those
It's rarely a good idea to jam tags together into a single key like
that, most applications have enough trouble with the complexities of
single ke
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Roy Wallace wrote:
> Is there anything wrong with using:
> "amenity=cafe;fast_food;restaurant"? If not, that approach, plus those
One problem would be the conversion of such a thing to GPS formats. I
guess you could stack three POIs in one place, but it wouldn't be
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:19 AM, John Smith wrote:
>
> On 5 May 2010 09:22, Steve Bennett wrote:
> > (Just to make life even hearder: is McCafe a cafe or fast food?)
>
> Maybe it's all three at the same time...
>
> Does it have a sit down and eat area restaurant
> Is the food delievered in le
redge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
-Original Message-
From: John Smith
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 11:54:19
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [T
On 5/4/10 11:15 PM, John Smith wrote:
> On 5 May 2010 12:51, Richard Welty wrote:
>
>> crap:mega=yes
>>
>> as well.
>>
> That doesn't make any sense...
>
lots and lots of crap: mega crap
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On 5 May 2010 12:51, Richard Welty wrote:
> crap:mega=yes
>
> as well.
That doesn't make any sense...
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On 5/4/10 10:34 PM, John Smith wrote:
> On 5 May 2010 11:58, Richard Welty wrote:
>
>> perhaps we need
>>
>> crap=yes
>>
> To be more effective, and less subjective, you will probably need
> sub-tagging to define who it's crap too
>
> crap:snobby_elite=yes
> crap:student=no
> crap:homele
On 5 May 2010 11:58, Richard Welty wrote:
> perhaps we need
>
> crap=yes
To be more effective, and less subjective, you will probably need
sub-tagging to define who it's crap too
crap:snobby_elite=yes
crap:student=no
crap:homeless=no
etc...
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On 5/4/10 9:51 PM, John Smith wrote:
> On 5 May 2010 11:36, Greg Troxel wrote:
>
>> Fair enough. If you judge on food quality and "is food presented faster
>> than it could reasonably be preparted" then I think we're in closer
>> agreement.
>>
> My point was, we shouldn't base a tagging
On 5 May 2010 11:37, Alan Mintz wrote:
> I'd actually prefer something like shop=donut to cafe, since it seems that
Isn't cafe a French word for coffee?
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On 5 May 2010 11:36, Greg Troxel wrote:
> Fair enough. If you judge on food quality and "is food presented faster
> than it could reasonably be preparted" then I think we're in closer
> agreement.
My point was, we shouldn't base a tagging criteria other than
operator=*, just because a company is
At 2010-05-04 18:15, Greg Troxel wrote:
>Alan Mintz writes:
>
> > At the risk of bringing up the ambiguous meaning of "cafe" discussion
> again
> > :) I'm using cafe for coffee-houses like Starbucks, with very limited,
> > usually pre-made, offerings like sandwiches and pastries.
>
>I think that
John Smith writes:
> On 5 May 2010 11:15, Greg Troxel wrote:
>> Would you call dunkin donuts "fast food"? I do, because I get more of a
>> "megacorp volume" feel than a "quality food" feel there. I think most
>
> I think you are being a tad bias, since small corner stores in
> Australia sell
On 5 May 2010 11:15, Greg Troxel wrote:
> Would you call dunkin donuts "fast food"? I do, because I get more of a
> "megacorp volume" feel than a "quality food" feel there. I think most
I think you are being a tad bias, since small corner stores in
Australia sell fast food of lesser quality tha
Alan Mintz writes:
> At the risk of bringing up the ambiguous meaning of "cafe" discussion again
> :) I'm using cafe for coffee-houses like Starbucks, with very limited,
> usually pre-made, offerings like sandwiches and pastries.
I think that's the right call. Starbuck's is primarily about c
John Smith writes:
> On 5 May 2010 09:22, Steve Bennett wrote:
>> (Just to make life even hearder: is McCafe a cafe or fast food?)
>
> Maybe it's all three at the same time...
>
> Does it have a sit down and eat area restaurant
> Is the food delievered in less than 5 minutes (usually)... fa
At 2010-05-04 12:04, Phil! Gold wrote:
>* Alan Mintz [2010-05-04 09:47 -0700]:
> > I generally regard fast_food as a place where you have to walk up to a
> > counter and order your food. Even if they do bring it out to your table
> > when ready, they will not generally come back to refill your dri
On 5 May 2010 09:22, Steve Bennett wrote:
> (Just to make life even hearder: is McCafe a cafe or fast food?)
Maybe it's all three at the same time...
Does it have a sit down and eat area restaurant
Is the food delievered in less than 5 minutes (usually)... fast_food
Is there a distinctive "c
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Phil! Gold wrote:
> * Alan Mintz [2010-05-04 09:47 -0700]:
>> I generally regard fast_food as a place where you have to walk up to a
>> counter and order your food. Even if they do bring it out to your table
>> when ready, they will not generally come back to refil
* Alan Mintz [2010-05-04 09:47 -0700]:
> I generally regard fast_food as a place where you have to walk up to a
> counter and order your food. Even if they do bring it out to your table
> when ready, they will not generally come back to refill your drinks or
> bring additional courses. Tips are
At 2010-05-04 05:42, Katie Filbert wrote:
>Some of the inconsistencies I found in the Washington DC area were with my
>own edits :() In my earlier edits, I regarded places like Chipotle and
>even Subway as restaurants. Although healthier, I now definitely regard
>Subway as fast food and in mo
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:22 AM, John Smith wrote:
>
> Do you have any concrete examples?
>
> Most McDonald's "restaurants" have tables and sit down areas, but we
> tag them as fast food because that is the politically correct way to
> refer to junk food...
>
>
The discussions have been very helpfu
On 4 May 2010 18:14, Roy Wallace wrote:
> 1) allow for the specification of more than one type simultaneously,
> e.g. amenity=A;B, amenity=B;C, etc., or
> 2) change/specify in more detail the definitions of A, B and C so that
> they *are* mutually exclusive, or
> 3) be forced to tag things incorr
(note: removed talk-us)
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:39 PM, John Smith wrote:
>
>... It's a big world out there and there is bound to be grey areas
> that local knowledge will tags things one way or the other...
"There is bound to be grey areas" only if we continue to use these
tags as currently def
On 4 May 2010 14:24, Roy Wallace wrote:
> I think we can avoid having multiple meanings for identical tags in
> the OSM database. (though I realise you disagree, John).
I'm not disagreeing with the intent of Katie, I just don't think it's
possible to lump all fast food places everywhere into a ni
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Smith wrote:
>
> Why does it need to be a unifying criteria?
>
> Provide the tags, people will come up with their own criteria based on
> their own cultural background, while they will be similar, there will
> be subtle differences.
I think we can avoid having
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:38 PM, John Smith wrote:
> On 4 May 2010 12:08, Steve Bennett wrote:
>> IMHO, the real issue is that OSM is a map, and rating food is not map
>> like. At its tidiest OSM would merely store the address corresponding
>
> Alternatively you could have just said it was a subje
On 4 May 2010 12:08, Steve Bennett wrote:
> IMHO, the real issue is that OSM is a map, and rating food is not map
> like. At its tidiest OSM would merely store the address corresponding
Alternatively you could have just said it was a subjective method of
tagging that the next person to come along
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:
> That's what I meant about the slippery slope to a full ontology. The real
> bug in OSM's tagging scheme is that it is structured like
IMHO, the real issue is that OSM is a map, and rating food is not map
like. At its tidiest OSM would merely
Liz writes:
> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Greg Troxel wrote:
>> cafe - food is made to order, and while fast, it's real food.
>>
>> Basically my rules are:
>>
> snip
>
> so how would you classify the shop which sells magnificent hamburgers,
> ordered at the counter, cooked to order, no table service?
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Katie Filbert wrote:
> I'm interested in feedback on how to tag particular chain
> restaurants/places. I have a copy of the OSM planet database and see
> inconsistencies in how these places are tagged.
Pretty much by definition all these tags will have grey areas
On Mon, 3 May 2010, Greg Troxel wrote:
> cafe - food is made to order, and while fast, it's real food.
>
> Basically my rules are:
>
snip
so how would you classify the shop which sells magnificent hamburgers, ordered
at the counter, cooked to order, no table service?
but its also a newsagent
2010/5/3 John Smith :
> Why does it need to be a unifying criteria?
>
> Provide the tags, people will come up with their own criteria based on
> their own cultural background, while they will be similar, there will
> be subtle differences.
+1
cheers,
Martin
_
On 3 May 2010, at 5:18 , Greg Troxel wrote:
>
> Katie Filbert writes:
>
>> * Baskin Robbins (fast food?)
>
> This is the missing ice cream shop I think. But if they serve other
> food, it's made to order, and they have table service - restaurant.
>
>> * Fuddruckers (restaurant or fast food?
Katie Filbert writes:
> * Baskin Robbins (fast food?)
This is the missing ice cream shop I think. But if they serve other
food, it's made to order, and they have table service - restaurant.
> * Fuddruckers (restaurant or fast food?)
tough call
> * Panera Bread (restaurant or cafe?)
cafe -
On 3 May 2010 21:07, Katie Filbert wrote:
> So it's okay for, say all the Burger Kings, to be inconsistently tagged...
> some as amenity=fast_food, some as amenity=restaurant?
As I said, the majority of criteria will be similar, however there
will be differences in what people think of as fast fo
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 6:41 AM, John Smith wrote:
> On 3 May 2010 20:30, Katie Filbert wrote:
> > True... I think use of disposable plates, cups, utensils is more common
> in
> > the US. Whether or not the place has table service might be a better
> > consideration. What criteria do you use to
On 3 May 2010 20:30, Katie Filbert wrote:
> True... I think use of disposable plates, cups, utensils is more common in
> the US. Whether or not the place has table service might be a better
> consideration. What criteria do you use to decide?
Why does it need to be a unifying criteria?
Provid
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:49 AM, John Smith wrote:
> On 3 May 2010 19:39, Katie Filbert wrote:
> > To guide the fast food or restaurant question, I consider whether food is
> > paid for prior to eating (e.g. at a counter) and whether or not
> disposable
> > plates, utensils, etc. are used. This i
On Mon, 3 May 2010, John Smith wrote:
> On 3 May 2010 19:39, Katie Filbert wrote:
> > To guide the fast food or restaurant question, I consider whether food is
> > paid for prior to eating (e.g. at a counter) and whether or not
> > disposable plates, utensils, etc. are used. This is often consist
On 3 May 2010 19:39, Katie Filbert wrote:
> To guide the fast food or restaurant question, I consider whether food is
> paid for prior to eating (e.g. at a counter) and whether or not disposable
> plates, utensils, etc. are used. This is often consistent with criteria
> used in classifying places
I'm interested in feedback on how to tag particular chain
restaurants/places. I have a copy of the OSM planet database and see
inconsistencies in how these places are tagged.
* Baskin Robbins (fast food?)
* Chipotle Mexican Grill (fast food or restaurant?)
* COSI (restaurant or cafe?)
* Five Guy
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