Dear Karl-Dieter (IIRC, apologies if not...)
I saw your comments to my answer to William. It gives useful points, but I
need more time to propose a consistent solution.
One more (side) point : I think that what is called currently statistics is
currently evolving to become a discipline aiming a
> Nobody is suggesting deprecating the potential to use Sage+R.
>>
>
> That's replacing "It's there" by "It can be done". Not the same thing...
> unless you're a theologian or a politician.
>
>
Thank you.
>
> A third point, distinct from the previous two, is that William deems the
> current
A couple of quick notes ; consistent answer to follow (not soon, alas...) :
Le mardi 1 novembre 2016 03:23:41 UTC+1, William a écrit :
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 6:58 PM, kcrisman >
> wrote:
> > All I know is this:
> >
> > 1) We have "sold" a lot of Sage by saying it's all in there, and at
>
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 6:58 PM, kcrisman wrote:
> All I know is this:
>
> 1) We have "sold" a lot of Sage by saying it's all in there, and at least
> some people have used Sage+R effectively. Estimates of how many vary
> wildly. But non-zero.
Nobody is suggesting deprecating the potential to u
All I know is this:
1) We have "sold" a lot of Sage by saying it's all in there, and at least
some people have used Sage+R effectively. Estimates of how many vary
wildly. But non-zero.
2) rpy2 might be there, but as far as I can tell most people who've used
Sage+R use it via the "dumb pexpect
On Sunday, October 30, 2016, Emmanuel Charpentier <
emanuel.charpent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear William,
>
> Sorry to have sounded frightened by *you* : I'm frightened by the amount
> of *my* ignorance...
>
> Since it seems that I'm (almost) alone among Sage users to be interested
> by the develo
On Sunday, October 30, 2016, William Stein wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Emmanuel Charpentier
> > wrote:
> > Dear William,
> >
> > thanks for this advice, which I'll consider seriously, notwithstanding
> its
> > total opacity to me at the moment
> >
> > I just checked that the r
Le vendredi 28 octobre 2016 13:13:10 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 12:33:42 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
> wrote:
>>
>> I just checked (by installation on a virtual machine) that a *virgin*
>> (base + destktop + usual utilities) debian stable (jessi
On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 12:33:42 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
wrote:
>
> I just checked (by installation on a virtual machine) that a *virgin*
> (base + destktop + usual utilities) debian stable (jessie) has openssl
> installed. Tentatively asking for its removal (apt-get remove -s op
I just checked (by installation on a virtual machine) that a *virgin* (base
+ destktop + usual utilities) debian stable (jessie) has openssl installed.
Tentatively asking for its removal (apt-get remove -s openssl) tells that
it would remove a ton of system utilities.
The same is true on testin
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 8:15:38 PM UTC+2, kcrisman wrote:
>
>
> So either they will stop distribute R or they will patch
>>> en-masse.
>>>
>>
>> Somehow, I doubt it.
>>
>>
> Probably nobody even bothered to notice or notify e.g. Debian?
>
> I think people at Debian ar well aware of suc
> So either they will stop distribute R or they will patch
>> en-masse.
>>
>
> Somehow, I doubt it.
>
>
Probably nobody even bothered to notice or notify e.g. Debian?
Thanks for working on this; how annoying.
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On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:28:41 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Jean-Pierre Flori > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:16:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori
> wrote:
> >>
> >> But you're right, by default Debian links to openssl:
> >>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:16:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>>
>> But you're right, by default Debian links to openssl:
>> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libcurl3
>>
>> And indeed curl is not GPL anyway:
>> https://cu
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:23:58 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> We've been down this road before with Sage, and it's pretty annoying.
> I've personally wasted hundreds of hours on it (GNUtls, openssl, etc.)
> Programmers playing lawyers have ended up with a broken and
> i
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:16:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>
> But you're right, by default Debian links to openssl:
> https://packages.debian.org/sid/libcurl3
>
> And indeed curl is not GPL anyway:
> https://curl.haxx.se/docs/copyright.html
> Groumpf.
> See https://curl.haxx.s
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 5:18:40 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
wrote:
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 17:00:05 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:59:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at
Hi,
We've been down this road before with Sage, and it's pretty annoying.
I've personally wasted hundreds of hours on it (GNUtls, openssl, etc.)
Programmers playing lawyers have ended up with a broken and
inconsistent legal foundation. There is no easy way out, since only
copyright owners can c
But you're right, by default Debian links to openssl:
https://packages.debian.org/sid/libcurl3
And indeed curl is not GPL anyway: https://curl.haxx.se/docs/copyright.html
Groumpf.
See https://curl.haxx.se/legal/distro-dilemma.html for more rumbling.
Now what if a GPL application links to libcurl
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 17:00:05 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:59:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:49:23 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:04:52
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:59:02 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:49:23 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:04:52 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 3:59:26
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:59:02 PM UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:49:23 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:04:52 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 3
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:49:23 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
wrote:
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:04:52 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 3:59:26 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 13:1
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 16:04:52 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 3:59:26 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 13:10:17 UTC+2, François a écrit :
>>>
>>> It is a most interesting point because it explain why
>>>
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 3:59:26 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
wrote:
>
>
>
> Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 13:10:17 UTC+2, François a écrit :
>>
>> It is a most interesting point because it explain why
>> the R binary installed from epel for RH7.1 and family
>> isn’t linked to openssl.
>
Building R against a ssl-less libcurl works (modulo patching configure) and
does not seem to add errors into R's test suite.
So I suggest the following:
[123]:
* add curl as a standard package and let it use ssl if present except when
making dist tarballs (ticket needs some tweaking in case of di
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 13:10:17 UTC+2, François a écrit :
>
> It is a most interesting point because it explain why
> the R binary installed from epel for RH7.1 and family
> isn’t linked to openssl.
>
How old is RH7.1 ? The introduction of the libcurl requirement dates from
the R 3.3.0 rel
It is a most interesting point because it explain why
the R binary installed from epel for RH7.1 and family
isn’t linked to openssl.
If they don’t have a rock solid argument, and even if they
have, there may not be anymore official R packages from big
league binary distros. Unless they patch R, t
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 12:31:00 PM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>
> On 2016-10-27 12:24, Francois Bissey wrote:
> > While not configurable by the user in R-3.2.x it would build if
> > libcurl wasn’t found or missing https support.
> > The change to bail out if you don’t fulfil all th
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 12:28:57 UTC+2, Jean-Pierre Flori a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 12:22:37 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm afraid that we don't have much say in the matter : the R core
>> development team has choosen to rely on curl, and their build
On 2016-10-27 12:24, Francois Bissey wrote:
While not configurable by the user in R-3.2.x it would build if
libcurl wasn’t found or missing https support.
The change to bail out if you don’t fulfil all the condition appear
deliberate to me. And I see the point from a support point of view.
My co
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 12:22:37 PM UTC+2, Emmanuel Charpentier
wrote:
>
> I'm afraid that we don't have much say in the matter : the R core
> development team has choosen to rely on curl, and their build system will
> fail without it. Furthermore, among those 9402 packages, a lot of
While not configurable by the user in R-3.2.x it would build if
libcurl wasn’t found or missing https support.
The change to bail out if you don’t fulfil all the condition appear
deliberate to me. And I see the point from a support point of view.
My conclusion is that R developers would fill it a
I'm afraid that we don't have much say in the matter : the R core
development team has choosen to rely on curl, and their build system will
fail without it. Furthermore, among those 9402 packages, a lot of them may
have choosen to follow R "guidance" an use CURL.
If we choose to use another lib
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 12:02:42 PM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>
> On 2016-10-27 11:49, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 11:41:20 AM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2016-10-27 11:29, Francois Bissey wrote:
> > > R package s
Le jeudi 27 octobre 2016 11:29:12 UTC+2, François a écrit :
>
> R package system include downloading facility from repositories.
> That’s why you need curl. At least in theory.
>
In practice, web access to (a lot of) data repositories, databases, etc...
is more and more used : there is no poi
My own examination of R-3.3.1 configure script is that configure will
fail if libcurl 7.28+ is not present or present with ssl disabled
[m4/R.m4 line 4215 thereafter].
Unless the code for `install.package` has significantly changed between
3.2.x and 3.3.x it is an unnecessary failure dictated by an
As of this morning, CRAN offered 9402 packages... These packages offer
practical implementations for a tremendous list of applied statistics
problems (and more...).
Using R "without its packaging system" is about as useful as using Python
without pip or any other Python packaging system...
--
On 2016-10-27 11:49, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 11:41:20 AM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
On 2016-10-27 11:29, Francois Bissey wrote:
> R package system include downloading facility from repositories.
That's fine but it should be possible to just run
On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 11:41:20 AM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>
> On 2016-10-27 11:29, Francois Bissey wrote:
> > R package system include downloading facility from repositories.
>
> That's fine but it should be possible to just run R without it's
> packaging system.
>
Then I sugg
On 2016-10-27 11:29, Francois Bissey wrote:
R package system include downloading facility from repositories.
That's fine but it should be possible to just run R without it's
packaging system.
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R package system include downloading facility from repositories.
That’s why you need curl. At least in theory.
I’ll have to check for 3.3.x but there was alternatives in 3.2.x.
François
> On 27/10/2016, at 22:26, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>
> This is the obvious answer:
>
>> [6] or patch R not to
This is the obvious answer:
[6] or patch R not to use curl
Why should I need a web download tool to do calculations in statistics?
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Hi all,
The latest R versions depends on libcurl and actually more than that: on a
libcurl with https support.
So we might want to build our own libcurl with https support (see #21767)
but we then need an SSL/TLS implementation which Sage curretnly provides
only optionally through openSSL becau
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