[sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Rob Beezer
On Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:22:41 AM UTC-7, Darij Grinberg wrote: > But if Judson's book uses right-to-left and Sage uses left-to-right, > shouldn't your materials actually become easier to use once the dust has > settled? > Yes, of course. It is me who will have trouble adjusting to the new

[sage-devel] New Trac Server

2013-07-13 Thread R. Andrew Ohana
You heard about this awhile ago, but it is finally happening -- we will be moving over to a trac installation in a dedicated VM this upcoming Wednesday evening PST. This will require a few hours of downtime to sync the database over to the new machine. Changes to be aware of: 1) trac notificatio

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Travis Scrimshaw
Hey everyone who's following #14772, I don't want to change the patch, which has the multiplication in a GlobalOptions class, since it's just lifts the previous options up (a standard dict). Thus any change should depend on #14772 IMO. I'm not attached to having multiplication be a global opt

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Darij Grinberg
Hi Nicolas, and hi all, > - +1 on a parent option: > > sage: PermutationGroup(..., action='left') > > Note that this is consistent with what we do for finite set maps: > > sage: M = FiniteSetMaps([1, 2, 3], action = 'right') > > Maybe PermutationGroupElement will need to take a

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread William Stein
On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks Darij for bringing up the issue, and everyone for your > feedback! Here is my (strong for once) opinion on this issue. +1 to everything in your strong opinion. > Sorry I > am taking off right now for vacation

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Ultra-cool profiling gadget idea with sparkling modules

2013-07-13 Thread Nicolas M. Thiery
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 02:14:55PM -0700, defeo wrote: >Just kidding. More seriously, reminds me of this work by Flajolet, Salvy >and Zimmerman, which is at the heart of maple's combstruct: > >http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030439759190145R# and of Sage's species (wh

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Nicolas M. Thiery
Hi all, Thanks Darij for bringing up the issue, and everyone for your feedback! Here is my (strong for once) opinion on this issue. Sorry I am taking off right now for vacations, so it's stated in a rush. - I for myself usually prefer left composition for permutations (like most combina

[sage-devel] Re: Sage graphics in javascript ?

2013-07-13 Thread Jason Grout
On 7/13/13 9:17 AM, Nathann Cohen wrote: Hello everybody !!! Have you ever seen this thing ? https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Gallery It's a javascript library which seems to handle quite a range of things, and I am thinking of writing a patch that would let us draw Sage grap

[sage-devel] Sage graphics in javascript ?

2013-07-13 Thread Nathann Cohen
Hello everybody !!! Have you ever seen this thing ? https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Gallery It's a javascript library which seems to handle quite a range of things, and I am thinking of writing a patch that would let us draw Sage graphs using it instead of Matplotlib. Perhaps

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Darij Grinberg
TypeError: unsupported operand parent(s) for '-': 'Symmetric group algebra of order 5 over Rational Field' and 'Symmetric group algebra of order 5 over Integer Ring' I am disappoint... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscrib

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Darij Grinberg
Hi Dima, On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote: > IMHO it's a not as obsolete convention as you seem to imply; isn't e.g. Magma > using the same convention as GAP? > Not mentioning a lot of group theory literature... I don't know anything about Magma, but what group theory litera

[sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On 2013-07-12, darijgrinberg wrote: > --=_Part_13473_7743396.1373672589533 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello! > > While trying to do computations in symmetric group algebras today, I was > shocked by the fact that Sage uses the convention that a product \pi \psi > of t

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread John Cremona
I think this point (Volker's) is a very good one: if the action is to be a right action then it should be implemented as such, just as many group theorists write "i\sigma" for the image of i under \sigma with a right action. Persumably such right actions can be implemented in Sage so one would w

[sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Darij Grinberg
Hello again, thanks for the reactions! Good to see that I'm not the only one who is having headaches with the current system. On Saturday, 13 July 2013 05:21:58 UTC+2, Rob Beezer wrote: >Breaking doctests is one thing, breaking user code is another. >I've written some rather extensi

[sage-devel] Re: Products of permutations use nonstandard order of operation

2013-07-13 Thread Nils Bruin
On Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:43:09 AM UTC+2, darijgrinberg wrote: > There is a further issue lurking in the background here. It *is* possible > to make Sage use the standard convention (first \psi, then \pi), namely by > setting a global variable (see > http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket