Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Kevin McConnell
--- Dan Hollis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i haven't played with jfs at all, afaik it is the > most recent of the > bunch. it has interesting features but it seems both > xfs and reiser are > considerably more advanced and tested. Actually, JFS is the oldest of them all. JFS was the original

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Bill Crawford
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, John Summerfield wrote: > How many of these fields are absolutely critical? > > struct stat { > unsigned short st_dev; > unsigned short __pad1; > unsigned long st_ino; > unsigned short st_mode; > unsigned short st_nlink; > unsi

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Dan Hollis
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Bill Crawford wrote: > It would depend on the application ... ext3 is actually better for > some applications (according to a quick web search a while back, a > "real world" benchmark with some databases showed ext3 a winner). > ReiserFS on the other hand was optimized for Sq

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread John Summerfield
> > > John, > > The suggestion that knowing what files are open was only intended as a > suggestion to completely eliminate any fsck - it wasn't my primary > assertion. My primary assertion is: changes to the _structure_ on the disk > must be reflected on the disk ASAP. This can be done by many

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread John Summerfield
> > ANYWAY... I'm using Linux for business these days and I like it a lot but > want a better file system. I've heard of quite a few new ones - new to me > anyway - and when I asked about it, nobody really replied with the kind of > response I was hoping for. Ext2 is all I've got working. I ran

When does one need a "real server?"

2002-04-18 Thread John Summerfield
Assuming 100 Mbit LAN, how does one decide whether one needs an expensive server with high-performance SCSI? What are the guidelines? Given a basic contemporary Celeron with a recent ATA-100 disk drive performing at (according to hdparm) 30 Mbytes/sec or better, it seems certain to me that th

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Bill Crawford
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Dan Hollis wrote: > On 18 Apr 2002, Florin Andrei wrote: > > 3. XFS > > This is interesting, because the XFS code base is actually very mature > > and stable. That's why, i guess, the Linux port became stable so > > quickly: because only the Linux "hooks" had to be made stabl

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Dan Hollis
On 18 Apr 2002, Florin Andrei wrote: > 3. XFS > This is interesting, because the XFS code base is actually very mature > and stable. That's why, i guess, the Linux port became stable so > quickly: because only the Linux "hooks" had to be made stable, while the > core was already mature. xfs is st

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Florin Andrei
On Thu, 2002-04-18 at 14:50, Richard Troy wrote: > > cry for "performance." My rethort was, "Yeah, some performance while > you're rebuilding your system from tape! Hah!" :-) > So, I think it'd be really neat if someone would put together a small > table outlining what's available for our belov

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Bill Crawford
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Richard Troy wrote: > ANYWAY... I'm using Linux for business these days and I like it a lot but > want a better file system. I've heard of quite a few new ones - new to me > anyway - and when I asked about it, nobody really replied with the kind of > response I was hoping for

Re: Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Matt Fahrner
Well, that'll teach me to interject without paying attention to the bigger scope... Anyway, these seem to be some good docs: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs7/ http://people.spoiled.org/jha/ext3-faq.html I personally found it *very* easy to use EXT3. Just upgrade

Alternative file systems? Was Re: Better File systems?

2002-04-18 Thread Richard Troy
Well, Matt, your post brought a smile. Thanks for your gentle response. As a closing remark on my use of the word "stupid", yes, I chose that word with some abandon - I'm aware of its potentially offensive reception. However, I recall the arguments at the time quite vividly. My coleagues urged m

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Matt Fahrner
You're right, I didn't follow your argument completely but rather only a short subset slamming Unix. I get your gist, though I would have to see statistics to see whether making such required updates wouldn't reduce performance too extensively. I made the mistake of assuming you were a newbie who

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Richard Troy
> If "rtroy" supposition was held up disk performance would suffer > dramatically. This is the very old and very tired dogmatic argument which has been disproven repeatedly throughout computing history. ...It could also be that you have not understood - perhaps I have not articulated - the argum

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Richard Troy
John, The suggestion that knowing what files are open was only intended as a suggestion to completely eliminate any fsck - it wasn't my primary assertion. My primary assertion is: changes to the _structure_ on the disk must be reflected on the disk ASAP. This can be done by many different means

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Matt Fahrner
If "rtroy" supposition was held up disk performance would suffer dramatically. All OS-es use write caches, including Windows, though you have the option to turn it off. Not using caches leads to poor disk performance, especially on multi-user systems, disks with small buffers, and where you are re

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread John Summerfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Here's my imperative: Every change to the structure on disk _must_be_ > written to disk that very instant. On-disk structure changes are _the_ > most critical aspect. Caching disk structure is fine, but having > changes in cache that are not yet reflected on disk is, OK

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Florin Andrei
On Thu, 2002-04-18 at 02:41, Kort E Patterson wrote: > > My current project uses ext3 on "/boot" and "/" Raid-1 partitions > (boots off the raid partitions so raid-1 support must also be > compiled directly into the kernel, and the --omit-raid-modules > option used with mkinitrd). I haven't had

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Jean Francois Martinez
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:41:36 -0700 Kort E Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Ronald W. Heiby" wrote: > > > > Wednesday, April 17, 2002, 11:26:11 AM, Richard wrote: > > > Please note that in my experience, ext3 doesn't work. When I upgraded my > > > systems from RH 6.2 to 7.2, I tried to tel

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Kort E Patterson
"Ronald W. Heiby" wrote: > > Wednesday, April 17, 2002, 11:26:11 AM, Richard wrote: > > Please note that in my experience, ext3 doesn't work. When I upgraded my > > systems from RH 6.2 to 7.2, I tried to tell it to use ext3, the default, > > on several systems and each time was rewarded with a sy

Re: Better File systems? Was Re: XFS - here's the solution

2002-04-18 Thread Ronald W. Heiby
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, April 17, 2002, 11:26:11 AM, Richard wrote: > Please note that in my experience, ext3 doesn't work. When I upgraded my > systems from RH 6.2 to 7.2, I tried to tell it to use ext3, the default, > on several systems and each time was rewarde