[RE-wrenches] Tube solar collectors

2009-07-19 Thread Joel Davidson
Wrenches, Solyndra claims that their tube collectors "perform optimally when mounted horizontally and packed closely together, thereby covering significantly more of the available roof area and producing more electricity per rooftop on an annual basis than a conventional panel installation." S

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread Peter Parrish
Joel, As a friend, I have enjoyed your perspectives on our business, even though I usually don't agree with everything you say. I have never taken you to task in a public forum, but I can't let your latest post go without comment. There is a reason we call these guys DIYs. They have no expe

[RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread Marco Mangelsdorf
I second a lot of what Peter says. And believe that it ain't gonna get nuttin' but worse over time as grid-tie PV becomes more mainstream. I think it's pretty much inevitable that a serious fire or two or serious injury or death or two due to incompetence and a poorly installed system is gonna w

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread James A. Hartley
No neophyte should spend ANY time on a roof in whatever weather conditions. That's dangerous enough for even the most well conditioned and athletic of persons who are also technically proficient and qualified to be there. Sudden strokes, heart attacks and casual falls aren't such good things f

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tube solar collectors

2009-07-19 Thread Michael Welch
Hi Joel. No experience here, but I did talk to one of their installers (I think it was Carlisle Energy Services) at Intersol last week, displaying one of the modules with its mounting system. Some additional info to consider: E-T thermal collectors do have a "flat plate" in each tube, so angle o

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread Joel Davidson
Hello Peter, I should have noted that some of my DIY customers include licensed contractors, mechanics, hands-on scientists, and engineers, as well as skilled non-professionals. By so-called professionals, I refer to sales engineers who are neither trained sales people or engineers and contract

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread toddcory
Then there are the wholesale internet "designers" that sell DIY systems. These are usually put together by kids who have never done an installation, and who have completed some "training course" and design from behind a computer screen. I just hate to see this going on, but for many, this work i

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread R. Walters
HI Peter; First I agree with almost everything you said. However, I think you took Joel's DIY comment out of context. What he and I are saying, is that we both have customers that are more knowledgeable than many of the "Professional" installers/ designers/ sales people we are seeing in t

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tube solar collectors

2009-07-19 Thread Darryl Thayer
HI Joel I have done ev tube and flat plat, I am amazed that the flat plate is almost as good to better than the ev tube. As to PV it is true that the output goes as the angle, (cosine function) but if you have a wavey surface it is very slightly better than a flat surface. the cosine effec

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education

2009-07-19 Thread Keith Cronin
Hi Thanks for the responses. Agreed- there are many paths to the education route- NABCEP, SEI, Licensed Electrician with ancillary training etc. I think we all agree that this is not a hobby, although a hobbyist could have found their new vocation and make solar a way of life. The one commona