Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Elliott Cable writes: > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt > wrote: >> 1. You won't be able to put these in a single file and have it work. >> That's probably what's causing your problem.  The R6RS doesn't specify >> how libraries and top-level programs map to the file system.

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On May 15, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > Sorry to get caught up on a detail, but: > >> It wasn't until a StackOverflow answer you gave me Eli, in which you >> (literally) told me how to start the stepper (which involved changing >> languages to one of the restricted student la

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Ray Racine wrote: > Ctrl-c-a alone is priceless. A while back Ben Simon was asking about how to do this in Emacs, and people all seemed to have different approaches. Geiser does it well. _ For list-related adminis

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Not sure of the referent to the suffering emacs user. If you are an emacs junky, yes Quack is terrific with wide impl support, and DrRacket has many unique and great features, but Geiser, ah oh so lovely Geiser, tops my list for the hardcore Racket coder. Ctrl-c-a alone is priceless. On Mon, May

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

suffering emacs veteran detected! BTW, yeah, R6RS should be in the language menu, if not for anything other than most developers of Racket voted for it. ;) _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/users

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

15 minutes ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > Sorry to get caught up on a detail, but: > > > It wasn't until a StackOverflow answer you gave me Eli, in which you > > (literally) told me how to start the stepper (which involved changing > > languages to one of the restricted student languages) to

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

> Elliot pointing out the Learn You A Haskell website and the Learn You > Some Erlang website was probably the most helpful part of this entire > email - the docs are great. DrRacket is great. The website design of the > docs are intuitive and focus the attention just right (I really do thing > thi

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Sorry to get caught up on a detail, but: > It wasn't until a StackOverflow answer you gave me Eli, in which you > (literally) told me how to start the stepper (which involved changing > languages to one of the restricted student languages) to *see* how the > program executed a function that used c

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'll chime in here as a "semi-noob". The more I've learned Scheme and the more I've learned Racket (mix of the Schemer books, HTDP, personal projects, racket-lang docs) the more I'm seeing this specific issue as a cultural "thing" that has evolved - F

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 06:35:18PM -0400, Eli Barzilay wrote: > 20 minutes ago, Elliott Cable wrote: > > > 2) The whole “languages” thing is nearly as off-putting as the > > DrScheme obsession, but in a different way. When I come across an > > instruction saying to add `#lang racket` or `#!r6rs` a

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:15:06PM -0400, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > Neil Van Dyke wrote at 05/14/2011 07:16 PM: >> Just to be clear, when I wish for R6RS to be shot in the gut and left >> to die painfully in a ditch, I mean that in the utmost nice and >> respectful way. :) R5RS was getting close

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 03:22:59PM -0400, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > > In Scheme, the real activity of production use and R&D is around > implementations that start with R*5*RS and add their own very necessary > stuff atop that. Of those clusters of activity, I believe that Racket, > which could

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Woah! A lot of replies. I’ve been away from my computer; I’ll definitely come back and reply to all of your (quality!) questions and arguments when I have a little more time at the computer. I’m looking forward to it! _ For list-related administrat

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Oops that was supposed to be off list; sorry people. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Grant Rettke wrote: > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Elliott Cable wrote: >> I have an inbuilt disrespect for graphical IDEs.) > > Why? > >> I’m only using Racket because it was the only R6RS-compilant compil

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Elliott Cable wrote: > I have an inbuilt disrespect for graphical IDEs.) Why? > I’m only using Racket because it was the only R6RS-compilant compiler I could > find that would build on > Lion with any amount of coaxing. Ikarus was painful? > At some point in t

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

7 minutes ago, Richard Cleis wrote: > I like the #lang format, but it doesn't work when I embed 5.0 in C > programs. The 'modules' format works fine. Am I doing something > wrong? Either that, or there's a bug. Having a `#lang' line essentially reads the file as a (module ...) expression. --

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

I like the #lang format, but it doesn't work when I embed 5.0 in C programs. The 'modules' format works fine. Am I doing something wrong? rac On May 14, 2011, at 8:32 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > Two hours ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: >> >> Much the same as, when I used to write lots of shel

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Four hours ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > This is a problem that I've seen repeatedly in trying to help > programmers in other languages get started in Racket. Lots of > people want to know "how it all works" right when they start. > Whether this is helpful or not, everyone has some definiti

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Two hours ago, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: > > Much the same as, when I used to write lots of shell programs, I > didn't really think about writing a #! on the first line, until > there was some reason to know how the file was being interpreted, at > which point I was glad I could just read it of

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

It is indeed a frustrating situation. Robby On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > Neil Van Dyke wrote at 05/14/2011 07:16 PM: >> >> Just to be clear, when I wish for R6RS to be shot in the gut and left to >> die painfully in a ditch, I mean that in the utmost nice and respectfu

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Neil Van Dyke wrote at 05/14/2011 07:16 PM: Just to be clear, when I wish for R6RS to be shot in the gut and left to die painfully in a ditch, I mean that in the utmost nice and respectful way. :) R5RS was getting close to a gem (with a few warts and glaring omissions), and R6RS is this big th

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

#lang annoyed me until I "got it"; now it annoys me immensely that I have to use a *menu* to select a (teaching) language. (And when I *do* open those files in Emacs, I'm annoyed by the junk inserted by DrRacket.) I wish everything were always #lang everywhere. I don't even notice it, except whe

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Robby Findler wrote at 05/14/2011 05:38 PM: Also, and you may find this amusing given Neil's comments, but Matthew Flatt (the main Racket developer/designer) and I are both co-authors of the R6RS report (I played a more minor role than he did: Jacob Matthews and I just did the semantics at the

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Eli Barzilay wrote: >> they’re really not at all so great for somebody like me, who expects >> to understand every line of the first source-code file he’s writing >> in a language that is new to him, as he writes them. > > The main thing that I think was a failure

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On May 14, 2011, at 5:20 PM, Elliott Cable wrote: > 1) First off, and most importantly, the obsession with DrScheme is > *really* off-putting for any serious developer. I know *piles* of > programming languages, I’ve written hundreds of distinct open-source > libraries, I know more toolsets than

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

20 minutes ago, Elliott Cable wrote: > [...] I'll reply to a few points that you raise, and like Robby, I generally agree with the ones I don't reply to, but for some of them I don't know what to do. > 1) First off, and most importantly, the obsession with DrScheme is DrRacket! (DrScheme is de

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Thanks for the detailed feedback! One question, to help put your comments in context: can you remember what particular path you took through the documentation? In particular, did you hit the "Getting Started" page (http://docs.racket-lang.org/getting-started/), and if so, where did you go from

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

P.P.S. I don’t know how I managed to not include these; they are probably obvious, but incase you’d missed them: http://learnyouahaskell.com/ and http://learnyousomeerlang.com/ _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Thanks for this very illuminating message! Speaking as one of the people who's been a core part of Racket since very near the beginning and the main author/designer of DrRacket I found this message very helpful and, indeed, I feel more friendly to you now because of it. Also, and you may find this

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote at 05/14/2011 03:27 PM: >> >> I'd put this a bit differently: >> >> Racket will teach you all the things that Scheme would have (i.e., it >> would have the same contribution to your growth as a programmer), but als

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote at 05/14/2011 03:27 PM: I'd put this a bit differently: Racket will teach you all the things that Scheme would have (i.e., it would have the same contribution to your growth as a programmer), but also much more because of the many things it has that Scheme doesn't h

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > > Perhaps I should put it this way: if you're looking for interesting stuff in > programming language technology, I think you should be looking at "Racket" > instead of "Scheme" anyway.  "Scheme" is old, and not where the interesting > evolu

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Elliott Cable wrote at 05/14/2011 09:26 AM: As for the argument that I should be learning Racket instead of R6RS … well, there’s dozens of languages I should be learning right now. Unfortunately, Scheme, *standard* Scheme, not the “Racket” language, is what I’ve decided to learn next. Just s

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > 1. You won't be able to put these in a single file and have it work. > That's probably what's causing your problem.  The R6RS doesn't specify > how libraries and top-level programs map to the file system.  In > Racket, each R6RS library

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Elliott Cable wrote: > I'm new to both Racket and Scheme; I've been reading > through the R6RS, and I'm trying to get started with some > simple code. You can look at this simple pure R6 package which runs on most of the implementations, Racket included:

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

At Sat, 14 May 2011 09:26:39 -0400, Elliott Cable wrote: > Both of you misunderstood. A) I don’t use DrRacket (partially because > I’m working on the Lion developer privew, and DrRacket won’t build > there; and partially because I have an inbuilt disrespect for > graphical IDEs.) and B) I’ve alread

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Elliott Cable wrote: > Both of you misunderstood. A) I don’t use DrRacket (partially because > I’m working on the Lion developer privew, and DrRacket won’t build > there; and partially because I have an inbuilt disrespect for > graphical IDEs.) and B) I’ve already

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Both of you misunderstood. A) I don’t use DrRacket (partially because I’m working on the Lion developer privew, and DrRacket won’t build there; and partially because I have an inbuilt disrespect for graphical IDEs.) and B) I’ve already read all of the documentation you linked to; that’s exactly whe

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

2011/5/14 Elliott Cable > I’m new to both Racket and Scheme; I’ve been reading through the R6RS, > and I’m trying to get started with some simple code. > > Unfortunately, I’m having trouble with Racket’s R6RS syntax/supporting > features; what, exactly, is `(#%module-begin)` supposed to do? How a

Re: [racket] Getting started with R6RS

Hi Elliot, See http://docs.racket-lang.org/r6rs/Using_R6RS_with_DrRacket.html?q=1%20Using%20R6RS%20with%20DrRacket in order to get started with R6RS in DrRacket. The #%module-begin is merely an implementation detail, which you can learn much later. For discussion: Why not add R6RS to the lan

[racket] Getting started with R6RS

I’m new to both Racket and Scheme; I’ve been reading through the R6RS, and I’m trying to get started with some simple code. Unfortunately, I’m having trouble with Racket’s R6RS syntax/supporting features; what, exactly, is `(#%module-begin)` supposed to do? How am I supposed to properly use it? Fr