Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 6:47 pm, alex23 wrote: > (And that's not even commenting on the whole "I have no skill in this > area and only second-hand knowledge that it's possible but it's > *obvious* to me that it's trivial and *someone else* should easily be > able to do the work for me!" nature of your post...

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

Rather than waste more time replying to your post, Let me just refer you to an excellent post that you may have missed earlier in this thread by Mr. D'Aprano: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/d684d43b64a6e35a -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 8:26 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 1:18 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > Since when is no one is allowed to suggest a potential improvement to > > a product unless they are willing to implement it themselves? Imagine > > what the world would be like if s

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 9:00 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 2:50 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > If pylint can check for private access violations, then in principle > > someone could just add a run-time flag that would run pylint as a > > preliminary step to running python.

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 9:07 pm, James Mills wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Russ P. wrote: > >> My mistake for using "trivial" instead, I didn't realise it would trip > >> up your pedantry. > > > Your mistake for being a moron. But it seems to happen r

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:02 pm, alex23 wrote: > Can I comprehend that you don't even have an immediate need and are > instead actively engaging in online onanism? Absolutely. So anyone thinking beyond an "immediate need" is "engaging in online onanism"? Let's see. How long ago did the Python community sta

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:18 pm, James Mills wrote: > I never did say that python -is- suitable for > all applications or that all languages are suitable > for all purposes. But you did make some rather outlandish statements. I had written this: > I suggest you call Boeing and tell them that encapsulation

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:24 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 3:20 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > But I doubt it will ever come to pass, because it is clear that much > > of the Python community has no clue about what is required for large- > > scale, safety-critical software e

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:56 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > Also, attribute protection is just a tiny aspect.  The high assurance > community really wants as much static verification as it can possibly > get.  Python doesn't really lend itself to that. Which is why I was hoping that P

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 11:03 pm, James Mills wrote: > Then -don't- use python. Use some other boring > language. (!...@#$!@#) > > --JamesMills You're emailing me again. Please don't do that. It's bad enough to get death threats in a newsgroup -- I don't need them in my inbox too. Thanks. -- http://mail.pyth

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 11:16 pm, alex23 wrote: > I think this is the main issue we disagree on. I'm happier for Python > to remain lightweight where such features can be easily added on > demand through external libraries. I see no reason why a library > couldn't be as "well-engineered" a solution as an exte

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 21, 9:34 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > But you keep failing to explay why do you need it to be _part of the standard_ > library (or whatever). Technically, it doesn't need to be. But if someone proposes using particular language for a major safety-critical project, the critical features r

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 22, 6:30 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:10:05 +, Mark Wooding wrote: > > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:12:31 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > But if you have free access to attributes, then *everything

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 21, 4:04 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > (snip) > > > Your mistake for being a moron. But it seems to happen regularly, > > doesn't it. How much more of my time are you going to waste, loser? > > Calling people names is certainly

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 1:54 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > > > > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:10:05 +, Mark Wooding wrote: > > >> Steven D'Aprano writes: > > >>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:12:31 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > > But if you ha

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 22, 9:22 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > code. You can play around with the internals all you want in your own > little world, but as when you are working with a team, you need to > adhere to the interfaces they define (if any). The word "as" should not be there:

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 4:30 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > Suppose that you write a Python library module and release it.  I find > that it's /almost/ the right thing for some program of mine, but it > doesn't quite work properly unless I hack about like so... perfect!  I'm > a happy bunny; you've gained a user (

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 4:57 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > > As I said before, if you have the source code you can always change > > private attributes to public in a pinch if the language enforces > > encapsulation. > > And then have to maintain a fork.

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 6:21 am, Steve Holden wrote: > I have to say that I thought the example was somewhat bogus. Any > development team that is even slightly concerned about the possibility > of logic bombs in the code will try to mitigate that possibility by the > use of code inspections. Of course they

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 6:36 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > > Makes *no* sense? There's *no* good reason *at all* for the original > > author to hide or protect internals? > > My bad, sorry. > It makes sense... if the original author is an egotist who believes he must > control how I use that library. If the

Re: I'm a python addict !

On Jan 23, 6:58 pm, Linuxguy123 wrote: > I will never write another Perl or Bash script again. I still use bash for orchestrating the execution of a series of other scripts and/or programs (including python programs). I know you can do that in python, but I find bash simpler to use for that purp

Re: I'm a python addict !

On Jan 24, 4:03 pm, Robert Kern wrote: > On 2009-01-23 22:25, Aahz wrote: > > > In article, > > Linuxguy123  wrote: > >> I just started using python last week and I'm addicted. > > > Welcome!  Just be aware that excessive Perl-bashing is considered > > somewhat tasteless on this newsgroup, but the

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 4:17 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > On Jan 23, 6:36 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > > > > > Makes *no* sense? There's *no* good reason *at all* for the original > > > > author to hide or protect internals?

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 5:09 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > I didn't say "at all". Those were your words, not mine. > I said that it makes no sense that the power lies on _you_ instead of on _my > team_. And, when I said that, I recall we were talking about the python > language, not C. Once again, if you hav

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 9:54 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > Once again, if you have the source code for the library (and the right > > to modify it), how does the "power" lie with the library implementer > > rather than you the user? > &

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 10:04 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > Calling a one-word change a "fork" is quite a stretch, I'd say. > > I wouldn't.  I've forked a project P if I've made a different version of > it which isn't goin

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 10:04 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > > But what if I want an automatic check to verify that I am using it as > > the author intended? Is that unreasonable? > > You mean that you can't /tell/ whether you typed mumble._seekrit? > You're very strange.  It's kind of hard to do by accident. But

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 5:31 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > It seems to me that Russ' latest objection to _private names is not > specific to _private names. The same problem: > > "You will get no warning at all. You will just be inadvertently > creating a new "private" attribute -- and the assignment that you

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 7:56 pm, Mark Wooding wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > [snip stuff I don't disagree with] > > > That makes renaming and refactoring riskier in general in Python than > > in statically typed languages with enforced access restrictions. More > &

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

hose developers your password to get into the > > system? No? Wait a minute ... you mean you wouldn't "trust" them with > > your password? But what about "openness"? Are you some sort of fascist > > or what? > > Goodwin point. You loose. Good bye aga

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 26, 6:09 am, Steve Holden wrote: > Quite. Python is a language "for consenting adults". It has perceived > deficiencies for certain software engineering environments. Can we drop > the subject now? This horse was flogged to death long ago, and it's > pointless and cruel to keep on beating

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 27, 11:40 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > I think you still fail to see that what we are objecting is not that the > original writer can "optionally" use the enforced data hiding (which, as > someone pointed out before me, can be done with tools like pylint). The > objection is about the _us

Re: Function Application is not Currying

On Jan 28, 1:32 pm, Xah Lee wrote: > Function Application is not Currying > > Xah Lee, 2009-01-28 > > In Jon Harrop's book Ocaml for Scientist > athttp://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists/chapter1.html > > It says: > >     Currying > >     A curried function is a function w

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 9:02 am, thmpsn@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 2, 2:55 am, Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > > This is proven > > > by your statement above, whereby you are driving a user away, > > > simply because the language, in one small aspect, does not > > > give him what he wants, and the tenor of this

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 2:46 pm, Tim Rowe wrote: > 2009/2/2 Russ P. : > > > Are we supposed > > to believe that the designers of C++, Java, Ada, and Scala are all > > idiots? > > No, we're supposed to believe that the designers of C++, Java, Ada, > and Scala are all desi

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 4:35 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > This really, really, *really* isn't a tangent. It's the heart of > the matter. You are advocating a change that doesn't fit with > Python's "consenting adults" approach to programming. It's trivial > to enforce hiding using static checking tools if yo

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 7:48 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:16:01 -, Russ P. wrote: > > Here we go again. If you have access to the source code (as you nearly > > always do with Python code), then "breaking the language-enforced data > > hiding"

Re: what IDE is the best to write python?

On Feb 2, 9:09 pm, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: > You favor bleeding eyes? If I am going to bleed anywhere, I'd actually prefer it be somewhere other than the eyes. Well, maybe not the gonads either. That's a tough call. In any case, I use xemacs, and I've always liked color highlighting. N

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 12:45 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Another extreme position is that enforced data hiding is useless, that > there is *never* any need for it *at all*, and therefore Python doesn't > need it, there's no reason except stupid PHB's belief in cargo-cult > coding why Python couldn't be used

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 4:05 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:45:23 -, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > I find this extreme position is rather incoherent. If I may paraphrase > > the argument as I see it: > > "Enforced data hiding is useless, because it is utterly trivial to bypass > > it,

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 4:14 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:37:57 -, Russ P. wrote: > > On Feb 2, 7:48 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > >> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:16:01 -, Russ P. > >> wrote: > >> > Here we go again. If you hav

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 7:49 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:13:32 -, Russ P. wrote: > > On Feb 3, 4:05 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > >> I'm very much of the second opinion; it was Russ who did the sudden   > >> volte > >> fa

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 4, 5:35 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > Imagine you own a company, and you decide to lease an office building. > > Would you expect the office doors to have locks on them? Oh, you > > would? Why? You mean you don't "tr

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

On Dec 5, 6:21 pm, "Daniel Fetchinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi folks, > > The story of the explicit self in method definitions has been > discussed to death and we all know it will stay. However, Guido > himself acknowledged that an alternative syntax makes perfect sense > and having both (

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

oks ugly and reminds me of Perl and > Ruby. (I don't have anything against these languages, but there's a > reason I use Python). > > Russ P. wrote: > > On Dec 5, 6:21 pm, "Daniel Fetchinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> Hi folks,

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

On Dec 6, 4:32 am, Andreas Waldenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 04:02:54 -0800 (PST) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > class C: > >     def $method(arg): > >         $value = arg > > > (Note there's no point after $, it's not currently possible). > > Ruby uses @ and @@ for simi

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

On Dec 6, 4:37 am, Andreas Waldenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:32:58 +0100 Andreas Waldenburger > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 04:02:54 -0800 (PST) [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > suggested: > > > > class C: > > >     def $method(arg): > > >         $value =

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

On Dec 6, 7:34 am, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED] cybersource.com.au> wrote: > On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:15:27 -0800, Russ P. wrote: > > On Dec 6, 4:32 am, Andreas Waldenburger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 04:02:54 -0800 (PST) [EMAIL

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

On Dec 6, 1:21 pm, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Dec 6, 9:12 am, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 6, 1:02 am, Antoine De Groote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Allowing "$" as a sub

Re: Guido's new method definition idea

> But it's ugly.  No amount of rationalization will make it not ugly. The dollar sign is ugly? I beg to differ. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Python for kids?

I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website that addresses this concern, preferably (but not necessarily) using Python? I could try to teach

Re: Python for kids?

On Dec 7, 12:13 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a 12-year-old son who spends too much time playing Xbox live > and watching silly YouTube videos. I would like to try to get him > interested in programming. Is anyone aware of a good book or website >

Re: Python for kids?

Thanks to everyone who replied. The information was very helpful. Someone might want to consider putting a kids section on python.org (if it doesn't have one already -- I didn't see one). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Factoring Polynomials

On Dec 18, 6:17 pm, Collin D wrote: > On Dec 18, 6:12 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > > On Dec 18, 11:37 am, collin.da...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > I am trying to write a simple application to factor polynomials. I > > > wrote (simple) raw_input lines to collect the a, b, and c values from > > > the u

Re: Factoring Polynomials

On Dec 18, 6:31 pm, Collin D wrote: > On Dec 18, 6:27 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > > On Dec 18, 6:23 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > > On Dec 18, 6:17 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > > On Dec 18, 6:12 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > > &

Re: Factoring Polynomials

On Dec 18, 6:41 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > On Dec 18, 6:31 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > > On Dec 18, 6:27 pm, Collin D wrote: > > > > On Dec 18, 6:23 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > > > On Dec 18, 6:17 pm, Collin D wrote: > > >

Re: Is this pythonic?

On Dec 18, 8:08 am, ipyt...@gmail.com wrote: > x.validate_output(x.find_text(x.match_filename > (x.determine_filename_pattern(datetime.datetime.now() > > Is it even good programming form? I hope you're kidding. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: confused about __str__ vs. __repr__

On Dec 18, 1:27 pm, Robert Kern wrote: > Mikael Olofsson wrote: > > Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > >> Yep. And it's easy enough if you don't care about them being different.. > > >> def __repr__(self): > >>     return str(self) > > > If I ever wanted __str__ and __repr__ to return the same thing, I wou

Re: Noob question: Is all this typecasting normal?

On Jan 2, 6:15 pm, s0s...@gmail.com wrote: > On Jan 2, 7:20 pm, Ben Finney > wrote: > > > vk writes: > > > > If there were, I would expect it to conform with PEP 8 (get those > > > > ugly camelCase names outta there :-) > > > > haha, please forgive me. > > > I'll try and think of some more creati

Re: Noob question: Is all this typecasting normal?

On Jan 2, 10:50 pm, Ben Finney wrote: > s0s...@gmail.com writes: > > On Jan 2, 7:20 pm, Ben Finney > > wrote: > > > They don't need to be creative; they merely need to conform with > > > the naming scheme as laid out in the PEP. > > > If it's something to be included in the standard library, I ag

Re: Python 3.0 - is this true?

On Nov 8, 10:20 am, walterbyrd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have read that in Python 3.0, the following will raise an exception: > > >>> [2, 1, 'A'].sort() > > Will that raise an exception? And, if so, why are they doing this? How > is this helpful? Is this new "enhancement" Pythonic? I realize

Re: Avoiding local variable declarations?

On Nov 17, 5:12 pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > En Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:18:51 -0200, Steven D'Aprano > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:32:35 +, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch wrote: > > >> Not such illogical crap like > >> ``a = a + 1`` which must be obv

Why am I getting "[10263 refs]"?

I am running 2.5.2 on Red Hat 5. I am getting many printouts of reference counts, such as [10263 refs] I do not recall ever seeing this until recently. Why am I getting this? Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: iPython help, Docstring [source file open failed]

On 15 Kwi, 03:27, alex23 wrote: > On Apr 15, 5:35 am, Przemyslaw Kaminski wrote: > > > You may want to try: > > import pydoc > > b = pydoc.render_doc(timedelta) > > print b > > Isn't this exactly the same output you get from typing 'help > (timedelta)' though? Well, from this: Lets say I want m

Re: automated web with python?

OK, thanks, I'll give it a try, -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: automated web with python?

Ech... The problem is that mechanize doesn't support JavaScript, and these web forms are full of various JS functions... Maybe someone knows a way out of this? Doesn't have to be Python... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: automated web with python?

OK, I found a solution -- Selenium, from http://selenium.org. I downloaded Selenium RC and this works fantastic! I'll get the job done by tomorrow ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

hai friend

hai friend how are you i wish to all of your successfull works and learn more money www.yourambition.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

pyserial and file open conflict?

Hi all! I have a small but rather annoying problem with pyserial. I want to open a file on disk for reading and then open a com-port, write lines from the file to the port and then read something back and compare it to the next line in the file. Should be simple. And it is, apart from the fact tha

Rpy Module

Hi experts, I've just seen there is an R module, what i can't see easily is if you can / how to import other modules for R into the Rpy module Can anyone advise on this? Cheers Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Rpy Module

Superb, thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On May 25, 2:32 pm, "Joe P. Cool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 24 Mai, 15:58, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Sh4wn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > first, python is one of my fav languages, and i'll definitely keep

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 6:41 am, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are not realizing that only useful(**) thing about data hiding is > that some code has access to the data, other code does not. If you > "hide" data equally from everyone it's just a useless spelling change. I think you're missing th

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 3:04 pm, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 2, 4:50 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jun 2, 6:41 am, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You are not realizing that only useful(**) thing about d

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 4:17 pm, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 2, 6:39 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 2, 3:04 pm, Carl Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Jun 2, 4:50 pm, "Russ P." <[E

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 6:21 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 3, 9:41 am, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Here's what I think Python should have. I think it should have a > > keyword, something like "priv," to identify data or func

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 5:11 pm, Paul Rubin <http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I also realize, by the way, that Python allows a client of a class to > > define a new class member from completely outside the class > > def

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 10:23 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 3, 2:11 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes, that looks interesting, but I think it has a couple of drawbacks. > > First, it requires another completely separate class for the >

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 2, 10:23 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Then again, I have no issue with the current convention and personally > find the idea of adding a "private" keyword makes as much sense as > being able to syntactically define "model", "view" and "controller" > methods. Well, the designers

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 3, 11:02 am, Richard Levasseur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 3, 3:07 am, "BJörn Lindqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Russ P. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jun 2, 6:41 am, Car

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 3, 4:21 am, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 3, 1:42 am, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jun 2, 10:23 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Then again, I have no issue with the current convention and

Re: Picking apart strings

On Jun 3, 11:44 am, tmallen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a way to pick apart this text without resorting to regular > expressions? > > p { > color: black; > > } > > p -> element > color -> property > black -> value Sure. data = tx

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 3, 8:50 pm, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > So the basic answers I'm seeing that "do just fine" are: > > > 1. Don't test private functions. > > 2. Add functionality _to_ the private functions for testing. > > 3. Change the interface for the purp

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 4, 4:29 am, NickC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 4, 4:09 am, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What is it about leading underscores that bothers me? To me, they are > > like a small pebble in your shoe while you are on a hike. Yes, you c

line continuation for lines ending in "and" or "or"

I've always appreciated Python's lack of requirement for a semi-colon at the end of each line. I also appreciate its rules for automatic line continuation. If a statement ends with a "+", for example, Python recognizes that the statement obviously must continue. I've noticed, however, that the sam

Re: line continuation for lines ending in "and" or "or"

On Jun 4, 9:01 pm, Dan Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 4, 10:09 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've always appreciated Python's lack of requirement for a semi-colon > > at the end of each line. I also appreciate i

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 4:47 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Antoon Pardon a écrit : > > > On 2008-06-04, NickC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Jun 4, 4:09 am, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> What is it about leading underscores that bother

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 4:53 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > Given your very recent discovery of what 'dynamic' *really* means in > Python (like, for exemple, dynamically adding / replacing attributes - > including methods - on a per-class or per-instance basis), po

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 11:25 am, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jun 5, 2:07 pm, "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The "private" keyword goes further and prevents > > access even by derived classes. The double leading underscore in >

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

> For the record, I have made it abundantly clear that I don't think > Python should not have as rigorous an encapsulation regime as C++ or > Java. The worst that could happen with my proposition is that you > would need to use a "mangled" name to access private data or methods. > But you will be

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 12:20 pm, Roy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All somebody has to do to get at the private data is: > > #define private public > # include > #undef private Well, that shows the weakness of the C/C++ header files. The "include" directive merely does a simple text substitution, which

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 2:27 pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT), "Russ P." > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: > > > would need to use a "mangled" name to access private data

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 5, 2:57 pm, Hrvoje Niksic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Russ P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > By the way, my recollection is that in C++ access defaults to private > > if nothing is declared explicity. So normally the "private" > >

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 6, 8:25 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> I also realize, by the way, that Python allows a client of a class to > >>> define a new class member from completely outside the class > >>> definition. Obviously, that cannot be declared private. > >> Why so ? > > > Why should the client of a

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 6, 8:28 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > > > > > On Jun 5, 2:27 pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT), "Russ P." > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> declaimed the

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 8, 5:52 am, Mark Wooding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > By enforcing your `data hiding', you're effectively telling me that I'm > too stupid to make rational decisions of this sort. And that's actually > extremely insulting. 1) I suggest you not take it personally. 2) Local data within fun

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 8, 5:40 am, Mark Wooding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Russ P. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The idea of being able to discern properties of an object by its name > > alone is something that is not normally done in programming in > > general. > >

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 9, 2:23 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Mark Wooding a écrit : > > > > > Fuzzyman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> So, you are stating that no API programmer using Python *ever* has a > >> valid or genuine reason for wanting (even if he can't have it) genuine > >> 'hiding' of internal sta

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 9, 2:22 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > > Does > > anyone object to not having access from outside a function to local > > variables within the function? I doubt it. The other thing is that the > > vast majority of Python software, I would guess, is provided with > > source code. How many

Re: Why does python not have a mechanism for data hiding?

On Jun 9, 2:10 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But if it takes 6 month to get the mentioned developer to release > something I can use, I'm screwed up. Fine. I've lost track of how many times I've said this now, but my suggestion for a "priv" keyword allowed for "indirect" ac

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