On 08/11/2015 11:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 09:40 pm, Bartc wrote:
This is what I mean about people not understanding it!
I'm pretty sure I understand what *I* mean by constant, and what Pascal
means by it, and why the Pascal meaning doesn't quite match wha
On 08/11/2015 11:50, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
BartC :
On 08/11/2015 11:02, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
That elegant dynamism comes at a cost: method lookup is not a constant
memory offset. Rather, it is a dictionary lookup.
I've never understood why this seems to be necessary in Python. Why do
On 08/11/2015 12:43, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
BartC :
On 08/11/2015 11:50, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
import shutil
class Source:
def __init__(self):
self.remaining = "hello world"
def read(s
On 08/11/2015 15:59, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 11/08/2015 04:19 AM, BartC wrote:
That elegant dynamism comes at a cost: method lookup is not a constant
memory offset. Rather, it is a dictionary lookup.
I've never understood why this seems to be necessary in Python. Why do
names have
On 08/11/2015 18:01, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 4:54 AM, BartC wrote:
That would be true for locals as well. But as far as I can tell from the
CPython source code, byte-codes uses an index to represent a local, which
represents an entry into a linear table.
I can't quit
On 08/11/2015 21:00, Ben Finney wrote:
BartC writes:
I've never understood why this seems to be necessary in Python. Why do
names have to be looked up? (I'm assuming this is searching by name in
some sort of table.)
No, it is literally looking the name up as a key in a namespace
On 08/11/2015 23:13, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:36 +, BartC declaimed the
following:
But then, you say that additional attributes, potentially millions of
different ones, can be invented at runtime. Although I don't see how it
can remove names that are part o
On 09/11/2015 00:00, Ben Finney wrote:
BartC writes:
Is this typical Python code? Creating global objects in other modules
(or writing all over essential data structures in a library module).
Not “creating global objects”, but changing the referent of a name in
some other module. Yes
On 09/11/2015 02:23, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 09:35 am, BartC wrote:
import m
a=10
b=20
c=30
m.f()
The set of global names the compiler knows will be ("m","a","b","c").
Wrong. Up to the line "c=30", the set of names
On 09/11/2015 01:04, Ben Finney wrote:
Chris Angelico writes:
Hmm, then I was misunderstanding what BartC was advocating. I didn't
think it would *fail* in the presence of dynamic attributes, but
merely *perform suboptimally* (and presumably worse than current
CPython).
There isn
ess interested with speeding up CPython, for one thing
because it is not going to speed things up by ten times, so there seems
little point.
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On 12/11/2015 20:40, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Chris Angelico wrote:
[…] Ben Finney […] wrote:
I recommend you ignore that request; “Bartc” is fine as a name here,
IMO.
Given that LARTC means Linux Advanced Routing and Traffic Control, I'm
guessing Bartc is all about
quot;)
print (58)
print (59)
print ("FizzBuzz")
print (61)
print (62)
print ("Fizz")
print (64)
print ("Buzz")
print ("Fizz")
print (67)
print (68)
print ("Fizz")
print ("Buzz")
print (71)
print ("Fizz")
print (73)
print (74)
print (&quo
ough to me to check for a missing parameter, and to
assign whatever default value was designated ([] in this case). (How
does the default mechanism work now?)
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On 18/11/2015 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:14 AM, BartC wrote:
On 18/11/2015 22:11, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 2:08 PM, fl wrote:
Hi,
I have tried the below function and find that it can remember the
previous
setting value to 'val'. I
On 19/11/2015 01:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:41 PM, BartC wrote:
On 18/11/2015 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote:
On the contrary, it is certain always to be that exact object.
But, not the same value that appears as the default?
Nope. Mutable objects are never
On 19/11/2015 12:19, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 10:14 am, BartC wrote:
Consider this pair of functions:
def expensive():
# Simulate some expensive calculation or procedure.
time.sleep(100)
return random.randint(1, 6)
def demo(arg=expensive()):
r
On 19/11/2015 16:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 12:19 am, BartC wrote:
You know, for somebody who claims to design and implement your own
languages, you sometimes go to a remarkable effort to claim to be a dummy.
You write your own interpreter, but can't unders
On 19/11/2015 17:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 4:30 AM, BartC wrote:
The whole concept of 'mutable' default is alien to me. A default is just a
convenient device to avoid having to write:
fn(0) or fn("") or fn([])
You just write fn() instead. But
On 19/11/2015 18:26, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 19/11/2015 18:19, BartC wrote:
if you write A=B then something of B needs to have been copied into
A, even if it's just the reference that B contains. Otherwise it
would be
difficult to get A to refer to the same object as B.
Please, PLEAS
On 19/11/2015 19:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 5:50 AM, BartC wrote:
But you're not going to tell me what it is I got wrong!
I said that Python's "=" does a very shallow copy. And I stated that in A=B,
something of B must be copied into A.
I (and pr
On 19/11/2015 19:19, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 5:19 AM, BartC wrote:
But every choice has consequences. Steven gave you a few examples of
the consequences of late-binding default arguments. For example, can
you translate this into (one of) your language(s), and explain
On 19/11/2015 22:55, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 11/19/2015 02:21 PM, BartC wrote:
(Python returns 42; so that means my languages are more dynamic than
Python? That's hard to believe!)
It tells me your language does late binding for default arguments, which
does mean the default argumen
On 20/11/2015 01:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 04:30 am, BartC wrote:
On 19/11/2015 16:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
The whole concept of 'mutable' default is alien to me. A default is just
a convenient device to avoid having to write:
f
On 20/11/2015 12:12, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 6:59:54 AM UTC-5, BartC wrote:
On 20/11/2015 01:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 04:30 am, BartC wrote:
On 19/11/2015 16:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
The whole concept of 'muta
On 20/11/2015 12:28, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
BartC :
We're arguing at cross-purposes then since you are obviously
interested in these esoteric aspects,
The Ackermann function really is an esoteric example, but the other
example that has been discussed here can make practical use o
. Which may irritate him to
get 2 copies instead of one, but so it goes. I am talking about
BartC as well, but since this is his thread, I assume he is here.)
Actually that thread was started by 'fl'.
Sometimes you want to understand what you are doing. Sometimes
you just want to d
doing in-place modification for example), but that shouldn't
matter when bill is just a number.
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7;b3\n', 'c3\n']
Probably you'd want to get rid of those \n characters. (I don't know how
off-hand as I'm not often write in Python.)
The last bit could also be written:
for param in params:
print (params)
but I needed the row index.
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On 22/11/2015 03:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:59 pm, BartC wrote:
On 20/11/2015 01:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Here's another use for function defaults, as static storage:
[...]
This is a quick and easy way to memoise a function which would otherwise
b
On 22/11/2015 13:21, BartC wrote:
On 22/11/2015 03:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Quite frankly, to call it such demonstrates a considerable level of
ignorance about basic programming idioms. Not just Python, but general
purpose programming.
I've come to learn that basic idioms are
On 23/11/2015 00:04, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 22/11/2015 23:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:21 am, BartC wrote:
But if it's used for static storage, then why not just use static
storage? That's a simpler and more general concept than memoisation.
/head-des
On 23/11/2015 07:47, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I think it would be cleaner and better if Python had dedicated syntax for
declaring static local variables:
Interesting. So why is it that when /I/ said:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:21 am, BartC wrote:
>
>> But if it's used fo
rt
counting at 0).
To find the entry for particular name, you have to search for it (for a
list entry where the dict key "name" gives you the value you expect, ie.
"gengyang" in this example).
So a dict of dicts was a better idea.
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ll exists! (And ideally the file is
first closed via one of the handles.)
From your example, the syntax '[]' is roughly equivalent to
'create_empty_file()' in my analogy.
(I don't really want to get back to default arguments, but that would
extend to:
de
mal non-storage oscilloscope wasn't directly useful for the
complex non-repeating signals you get with computer boards.
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le, and they re-invent C!
https://code.google.com/p/dart/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/dart/client/samples/spirodraw/Spirodraw.dart
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st: [a,1,2]
When I do it like this: list=array[0]+ array[3]+ array[4] I get an error:
"TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'numpy.ndarray' and
'numpy.ndarray'"
You're calculating a+1+2. Probably a isn't something that can be added to
1+2.
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"simon" wrote in message
news:a50b1c21-287b-498d-a8c3-51a3a2f94...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
#!/usr/bin/env python
from math import *
from random import *
import cairo
from cairo import Context
What's cairo?
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tions and operations).
If it runs a lot slower than those other languages, then you're probably
doing some programming.
And with programs where the runtime is not significant, it could be
either...
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1970's are over, and neither Notepad nor your printer attempts to
maintain compatibility with a Teletype model 37.
Odd that TXT files under Windows still use the same 13 (carriage return), 10
(linefeed) and 9 (tab) codes that used to work on my ASR 33. So why not code
12 (formfee
"Steve Holden" wrote in message
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bartc wrote:
"Nobody" wrote in message
news:pan.2010.01.16.04.24.18.437...@nowhere.com...
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:42:43 -0800, W. eWatson wrote:
I thought I'd put a page
"Dennis Lee Bieber" wrote in message
news:mailman.1021.1263702437.28905.python-l...@python.org...
On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:59:52 GMT, "bartc" declaimed
the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
My point was these other control codes from over 30 years ago are still
i
and right
Any particular reason why two, and not one (or three)? In some fonts it's
difficult to tell how many as they run together.
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o be seen by the brigade who hate all break, exit,
goto and multiple return statements, then I won't bother.
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live or in a file, or some combination); whether to call the file .py or
.pyw; the difference between console and graphical programs and so on.
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"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hcdlsp$9a...@news.eternal-september.org...
* bartc:
"Alf P. Steinbach" wrote in message
news:hc8pn3$dd...@news.eternal-september.org...
[Cross-posted comp.programming and comp.lang.python]
You use the highly commercial-l
in some god-forsaken syntax
like C++...
...For some reason I can't quite understand, this sort of clear syntax seems
to be looked down on by 'real' programmers, who perhaps think code like this
can't be taken seriously.
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esn't have endif.
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f is not obvious.
I'd say that having this "&" symbol in front of "foo" makes it more obvious
than just foo by itself. But I agree not quite as clean.
Another thing is that you have to know whether "bar" is a function, or a
function ref, and use the appropriate syntax. Sometimes this is helpful,
sometimes not.
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Jonathan Gardner wrote:
On Feb 2, 7:23 am, "bartc" wrote:
Jonathan Gardner wrote:
One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.
You need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
foo(); # Call
it.
That might be true when used to code actual algorithms using basic features.
But a lot of Pythonisms would appear mysterious to someone who doesn't know
the language (for example, what does :: mean in an array index).
Or perhaps pseudo-code is much more advanced these day
if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
drawtext(s)
elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
drawtextb(s)
and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely
impractical.
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"Arnaud Delobelle" wrote in message
news:m28wb6ypfs@googlemail.com...
"Gabriel Genellina" writes:
En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc escribió:
"Steve Holden" wrote in message
news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-l...@python.org...
Arnaud
So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
That shows a different outlook. I would have said your first example works
as expected and it was the second example that was strange, possibly due to
shallow instead of deep copies by Python.
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are used infrequently
in final code. But they are handy when developing code too: you don't want
to waste time refactoring, and generally turning code upside-down, when the
code has to be rewritten a dozen times anyway.
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a hard time finding volunteers.
And even when we've had volunteers, hardly anyone shows up!
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Try and get a girl or two interested in coming to the meetings...
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e performance improvement achieved was so low
that cluttering up CPython with a JIT system and LLVM probably is
a lose.
LLVM. Ok, that explains a lot. (LLVM is a huge, complex system).
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ring the string representations of each
element.
So some sorts will make sense, and others (such as "<" or ">") won't.
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ing of 27.3 ns per iteration. So "a bit" is hardly
worth considering for most programs, is it?
One these is 30% faster than the other. That's an appreciable difference,
which you can't really just dismiss.
And you can't tell what the overall effect on a program wil
"Steve Holden" wrote in message
news:mailman.54.1292502247.6505.python-l...@python.org...
On 12/16/2010 5:44 AM, BartC wrote:
One these is 30% faster than the other. That's an appreciable
difference, which you can't really just dismiss.
shol...@lifeboy ~
$ python
o, just a simple
diagram showing how to plug it into the phone socket!).
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hing like this)?
And why not use 1 and 0 for TRUE and FALSE? Even the consumer appliances in
my house have 1 and 0 on their power switches! With the advantage that they
are internationally recognised.
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t.
One with zero instructions might be even simpler than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_instruction_set_computer
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hought
that syllable was stressed anyway.)
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en vectors are known to have 3
elements:
def norm3d(v):
L = math.sqrt((v[0]*v[0]+v[1]*v[1]+v[2]*v[2]))
return (v[0]/L,v[1]/L,v[2]/L)
(Strangely, changing those divides to multiplies made it slower.)
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"Alain Ketterlin" wrote in message
news:87fwyxgvuv@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr...
> "Bartc" writes:
>> def norm3d(v):
>> L = math.sqrt((v[0]*v[0]+v[1]*v[1]+v[2]*v[2]))
>> return (v[0]/L,v[1]/L,v[2]/L)
>>
>> (Strangely, changing those d
a newborn baby is zero years
> old or would it be more natural to call them a one year old? Zero
> based counting is perfectly natural.
Depends whether you are counting (discrete) things, or measuring them (over
a continuous range).
You would start counting at 1, but start measuring fro
ir own array
> manipulation.
Lots of things require this sort of calculation, eg. how many pages are
needed to print 267 lines of text at 60 lines per page? These counts are
1-based so it's (L-1)/P+1 (integer divide), or 5 pages.
If we switch to 0-based counting, it's just L/P ('266' lines require '4'
pages), but who's going to explain that to the user?
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ght be wrong).
I generally use 100 columns. It's useful for being able to write same-line
comments with meaningful content...
(I've used 80-column hardware (teletypes and such) years ago, I thought such
restrictions had vanished long ago)
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7;t remember the ASR-33 :-)
ASR33s I think might have been 72 columns wide (and punched cards had a
similar restriction).
However, lineprinter output was more likely to be 132 columns.
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message
news:roy-181632.07571818082...@news.panix.com...
In article ,
"BartC" wrote:
>> Remember, the old hardcopy terminals used to produce
>> 132-character-wide
>> listings.
>
> Those of you who think "old hardcopy t
the code compiled? *wink*
You underestimate how much programming (of applications) can be done without
needing any of this stuff.
Needless to say, I didn't last long !-)
And rightly so :)
I guess they wanted code that could be maintained by anybody.
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ould it print 3 (the elements in [10,20,30]), or 1 (treating [10,20,30] as
a potential list containing the single element [10,20,30])?
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ave helped the speed any. Nor the memory consumption.
A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the
fastest things in the language.
[Presumably the internal code that created those consecutive integers used a
more conventional looping method...]
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ht
wrote in message
news:h6r4fb$18...@aioe.org...
In comp.lang.python James Harris wrote:
On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da...@libero.it> wrote:
...
What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
want the not
ly too confusing,
No issue of what base the base indicator is expressed in.
It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
.octal.100
.decimal.100
.hex.100
.binary.100
.trinary.100
until it gets to this anyway:
.thiryse
terated between the values of the list!
So Python had the distinction of being one of the slowest languages in which
to do nothing (ie. running an empty loop).
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t relying
on accelerators, and not have to wait two and a half minutes (or whatever)
for a simple test to complete.
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"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message
news:4c83b425$0$28657$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 12:28:47 +0100, BartC wrote:
It would
be nice if you could directly code low-level algorithms in it without
relying on accelerators, and not have to wait two and a h
"Stefan Behnel" wrote in message
news:mailman.470.1283712666.29448.python-l...@python.org...
BartC, 05.09.2010 19:09:
All those compilers that offer loop unrolling are therefore wasting
their time...
Sometimes they do, yes.
Modifying the OP's code a little:
a = 0
"Stefan Behnel" wrote in message
news:mailman.485.1283772019.29448.python-l...@python.org...
BartC, 06.09.2010 12:38:
(2) Integer arithmetic seems to go straight from 32-bits to long
integers; why not use 64-bits before needing long integers?
You are making assumptions based on P
"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message
news:4c85adfe$0$5$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com...
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:38:22 +0100, BartC wrote:
Manually unrolling such a loop four times (ie. 4 copies of the body, and
counting only to 25 million) increased the speed by between
"David Cournapeau" wrote in message
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On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 8:28 PM, BartC wrote:
One order of magnitude (say 10-20x slower) wouldn't be so bad. That's
what
you might expect for a dynamically typed, interprete
"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message
news:4c878be5$0$3$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com...
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:00:03 +0100, BartC wrote:
for i in xrange(1):
a = a + f(i)
With Python 3 and def f(x): return x+1, unrolling this loop 4x improved
speed by 15%; 4.00 min
"Stefan Behnel" wrote in message
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BartC, 08.09.2010 03:45:
Getting back to the OP's code again (trivial and pointless as it might
seem), I got these results:
C (gcc 3.4.5 -O3) 0.8 secs
C (DMC-o) 2.3 secs
C (lccwin
meaningful symantics.
Simply put, a sequence multiplied by -1 can give a reversed sequence.
Then for any sequence "seq", and integer n>0, we can have
"seq * -n" producing "(seq * -1) * n".
Any thoughts?
Gimmicky.
Best to define multiplication only by unsign
the standard units are radians, and mm. Every other calculation uses
implied units.
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nd a language that has no compiler generating
faster code than C...
But those implementers have to try very hard to beat C. Meanwhile C can be
plenty fast without doing anything special.
When Intel will realize that 99% of its users are running VM
Which one?
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firstdigit=n//(10**(digits-1))
if firstdigit!=lastdigit: return False
if digits==2: return True
middledigits=n//10-firstdigit*(10**(digits-2))
return fpalindrome(middledigits)
print fpalindrome(12345678987654321)
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"Pascal J. Bourguignon" wrote in message
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"BartC" writes:
"Pascal J. Bourguignon" wrote in message
When Intel will realize that 99% of its users are running VM
Which one?
Any implementation of a contr
ared with 3.5 seconds, for my own
interpreted, dynamic language, and 0.6 seconds for C.)
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"Pascal J. Bourguignon" wrote in message
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"BartC" writes:
(defun fib (n)
(if (< n 2)
n
(+ n (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2)) )
))
But it gave the wrong results and it took ages to figure out why. Even
I
abel the cases for legibility.
You can do, until you want to insert an item in the middle and have to
re-label everything...
For more complex cases I'd just use a conventional case or switch expression
which (in my syntax at least), also evaluates just one expression, and
returns that value. But then you can also start using if-else chains, so
this is no longer a compact construction useful in an expression.
--
Bartc
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"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" wrote in message
news:i8j0dg$lh...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
In message , BartC wrote:
x = ("One","Two","Three") [i-1]
While this works for i = 1,2,3, it goes funny for i=0,-1,-2, and
generates
an error for the rest ...
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:36:33 +0100, BartC wrote:
However, as I mentioned, one problem here is having to evaluate all the
items in the list before selecting one:
...
x = {1 : fna(), 2 : fnb(), 3 : fnc()}.get(i, "None Of The Above")
"Mel" wrote in me
assigned.
2 - If I declare a class with some member variables, is is strictly
necessary
This is where I bail out...
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Bartc
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ef test showed an list+if (or is it tuple? I can never remember)
construction was much faster and much cleaner:
x = ("One","Two","Three")[i-1] if 1<=i<=3 else "Other"
"NevilleDNZ" wrote:
"BartC" wrote:
Probably there are
do all that if angles are just numbers.
The definition of a radian is length/length (or m/m) which simplifies to
dimensionless.
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Bartc
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"RG" wrote in message
news:rnospamon-20651e.17410012102...@news.albasani.net...
In article ,
"BartC" wrote:
"Thomas A. Russ" wrote in message
> But radians are dimensionless.
But they are still units
No, they aren't.
so that you can choose to us
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