Hans Georg Schaathun writes:
> On Wed, 11 May 2011 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT), alex23
>wrote:
> : On May 12, 7:24 am, harrismh777 wrote:
> : > We need to move away from 'canned apps' to a new day where
> : > the masses can sit down to their computer and solve new problems with it
> : > through in
On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:46:38 +1000, Ben Finney
wrote:
: Hans Georg Schaathun writes:
:
: > On Wed, 11 May 2011 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT), alex23
: >wrote:
: > : On May 12, 7:24 am, harrismh777 wrote:
: > : > We need to move away from 'canned apps' to a new day where
: > : > the masses can si
Hans Georg Schaathun writes:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:46:38 +1000, Ben Finney
>wrote:
> : Hans Georg Schaathun writes:
> :
> : > On Wed, 11 May 2011 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT), alex23
> : >wrote:
> : > : On May 12, 7:24 am, harrismh777 wrote:
> : > : > We need to move away from 'canned app
On 5/4/2011 10:32 AM, Jerome jjcpl.rpo wrote:
send resumes to jer...@jjcpl.net
One of our client in New Jersey is looking for Python Developers with
5 years of experience. If you have any resumes please send it
across.
Very strange recruiting organization. Strong Christian
religious ori
On Thu, May 12, 2011 4:31 pm, harrismh777 wrote:
>
> So, the UTF-16 UTF-32 is INTERNAL only, for Python
NO. See one of my previous messages. UTF-16 and UTF-32, like UTF-8 are
encodings for the EXTERNAL representation of Unicode characters in byte
streams.
> I also was not aware that UTF-8 chars
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the thoughts. I must confess I had already given up on a 'single
file' approach, because I want to make it easy for people to create their own
templates, so I have to handle copying a template defined by creating a new
directory full of diles. If I'm already handling this
>
> 2.6 is expecting a string, according to the above. No mention of file.
> Moreover it expects the data to be urlencoded. 2.7.1 docs say the same
> thing. Are you sure you have shown the code that worked with 2.6?
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Yes, in fact I si
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:35 PM, vijay swaminathan wrote:
> I tried using QThread as well.. But the problem is, on the run method when i
> invoke the command prompt, it sends out the finished signal... I want it to
> send out the finished signal only on closing the command prompt that is
> invoke
Hi Chris,
I tried using os.system as well but it did not even open up the command
prompt.
Can you please share the code that worked for you.. just wondering if I'm
missing something very basic.
Regards,
-Vijay Swaminathan.,
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May
I tried using that as well.
The problem is, the thread becomes dead as soon as it executes the
invocation of command prompt.
I want the thread to be alive till I go and manually close the command
prompt.
-Vijay Swaminathan.
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> vijay swaminat
vijay swaminathan writes:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm new bie to python thread programming and would like to assistance
> on the attached code.
>
> In this, I'm calling a thread to invoke a command prompt and would
> like to print the "Thread as alive" as long as the command prompt is
> opened and would li
On 12/05/2011 10:45, vijay swaminathan wrote:
I tried using that as well.
The problem is, the thread becomes dead as soon as it executes the
invocation of command prompt.
Can you post the code you're using, please?
This should be simple so maybe you've misunderstood
something in the threading
Hi Tim,
I have already done that. But for some reason my response went as a new
thread. Attaching the code again.
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Tim Golden wrote:
> On 12/05/2011 10:45, vijay swaminathan wrote:
>
>>
>> I tried using that as well.
>> The problem is, the thread becomes dead as s
On 12/05/2011 11:29, vijay swaminathan wrote:
<... snippet from code ...>
print 'Invoking Command Promptt..'
#subprocess.call(["start", "/DC:\\PerfLocal_PAL",
"scripts_to_execute.bat"], shell=True)
subprocess.call(["start", "C:\\windows\\system32\\cmd.exe"],
shell
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:42 PM, vijay swaminathan wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> I tried using os.system as well but it did not even open up the command
> prompt.
>
> Can you please share the code that worked for you.. just wondering if I'm
> missing something very basic.
Caveat: I'm not using Qt, I jus
Hello!
Let's say slice is multidimensional now - how to interpret it?
I excpect these to work:
- m[0, 3] - get one element from matrix
- m[0:2, 0:2] - get four elements from matrix, iterate over them (I have
actually an rtree if it doesn't make sense to you)
But it won't, because if m[
In article <931adaf9g...@mid.individual.net>,
Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Roy Smith wrote:
> >>If both are numbers, they are converted to a common type. Otherwise,
> >>objects of different types always compare unequal
>
> That's just the default treatment for unrelated types that don't
> know anyth
Tambet writes:
> Hello!
>
> Let's say slice is multidimensional now - how to interpret it?
>
But who said that slice is multidimensional in the first place?
Since python is not matlab I don't think it will ever be done, so what's
the purpose of talking about a bug in something that doesn't exis
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Hans Georg Schaathun
wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 01:49:05 -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain
> wrote:
> : That's not programming. That's using a canned app that a programmer
> : wrote that takes your unstructured input and does something useful with
> : it. Spreadshe
I have a vague feeling this may have been discussed a long time ago, but
I can't find the thread, so I'll bring it up again.
I recently observed in the "checking if a list is empty" thread that a
list and a subclass of list can compare equal:
class MyList(list):
John Machin wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 2:14 pm, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
>>
>> If the file you're writing to doesn't specify an encoding, Python will
>> default to locale.getdefaultencoding(),
>
> No such attribute. Perhaps you mean locale.getpreferredencoding()
what about sys.getfilesystemenco
On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:16:10 +1000, Chris Angelico
wrote:
: Anyone can join. Not everyone wants to join. Me, I'm happy here as a
: priest of the software industry, and I have no desire to become a
: priest of, say, automotive engineering or concrete pouring. Would an
: expert concreter be ex
Hello,
I have a python class that contains a dictionary.
I would like to use python properties to access the elements of the
dictionary.
This could be achieved as follows:
class MyClass(object):
def __init__(self):
self.d = {}
d['field1'] = 1.0
d['field2'] = 'A'
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Hans Georg Schaathun
wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 22:16:10 +1000, Chris Angelico
> wrote:
> : Anyone can join. Not everyone wants to join. Me, I'm happy here as a
> : priest of the software industry, and I have no desire to become a
> : priest of, say, autom
With 3.2 on winxp, that is what I get with StringIO, text file, and
bytes file (the first two with b's removed). I would expect the same on
any system. If you get anything different, I would consider it a bug
Thanks Terry, you're entirely right there; I trimmed down my test case,
asked for conf
Hi,
I'm using optparse for a little Python script.
1. The output from "--help" is:
"""
Usage: script.py
script.py does something
Options:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
"""
I would prefer to have the description before the usage, like...
"""
script.py does something
Usage: s
On Thursday 12 May 2011 22:23:04 Roy Smith wrote:
> I have a vague feeling this may have been discussed a long
> time ago, but I can't find the thread, so I'll bring it up
> again.
>
> I recently observed in the "checking if a list is empty"
> thread that a list and a subclass of list can compare
Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Ian wrote:
In the "real world" lists of zero items do not exist.
You don't go shopping with a shopping list of zero items.
Actually, yes you do. You maintain your shopping list between trips;
whenever you need something, you put it on th
Hi All,
Please help me in solving the following issue I am facing while
executing my python script. Basically I am executing the OS specific
move command to move a file/dir from one location to another. I am
executing the 'mv' command on linux & the 'move' DOS command on windows
machine from my
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Ian wrote:
>>>
>>> In the "real world" lists of zero items do not exist.
>>> You don't go shopping with a shopping list of zero items.
>>
>> Actually, yes you do. You maintain you
On May 12, 9:11 am, JamesEM wrote:
> Hello,
> I have a python class that contains a dictionary.
> I would like to use python properties to access the elements of the
> dictionary.
> This could be achieved as follows:
>
> class MyClass(object):
>
> def __init__(self):
> self.d = {}
>
On 12/05/2011 15:11, Ayaskanta Swain wrote:
Please help me in solving the following issue I am facing while
executing my python script. Basically I am executing the OS specific
move command to move a file/dir from one location to another.
Why? Why not use os.rename or shutil.move which already
On 12/05/2011 15:11, Ayaskanta Swain wrote:
Hi All,
Please help me in solving the following issue I am facing while
executing my python script. Basically I am executing the OS specific
move command to move a file/dir from one location to another. I am
executing the ‘mv’ command on linux & the ‘m
Hi,
I am new to this list, I don't really know if I should post here my request.
Anyway.
The following code is raising httplib.BadStatusLine on urllib2.urlopen(url)
url =
'https://stat.netaffiliation.com/requete.php?login=xxx&mdp=yyy&debut=2011-05-01&fin=2011-05-12'
response = urllib2.urlopen(
Hi all,
My machine is running Debian Squeeze so my default Python runtime is 2.6.6.
According to Python docs *optparse* library is deprecated and the
development will be moved to *argparse*, which is new in Python 2.7.1. So
now that I'm about to write a script that parse command line arguments
th
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> I have a vague feeling this may have been discussed a long time ago, but
> I can't find the thread, so I'll bring it up again.
>
> I recently observed in the "checking if a list is empty" thread that a
> list and a subclass of list can compare e
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:20 AM, Bob Fnord wrote:
> > Both methods give me a 503 error...
>
> As a networking geek, my first thought would be to fire up a tiny
> little "snoop server" and see what, exactly, the two methods are
> doing. (Ignore the HTTPS options as they'r
Actually came back with some feedback to my own question.
The following repositories do the job:
# /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ test
Hi,
I am currently trying to integrate Python support into my toolchain build
(including GDB of course). It is a sysrooted binutils+GCC+GDB+mingw-w64
toolchain.
I currently have the basic setup working: I can link gdb with my manually
generated import lib to the python dll from the official Windo
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:58 AM, John Machin wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 4:31 pm, harrismh777 wrote:
>
>>
>> So, the UTF-16 UTF-32 is INTERNAL only, for Python
>
> NO. See one of my previous messages. UTF-16 and UTF-32, like UTF-8 are
> encodings for the EXTERNAL representation of Unicode charac
(now in plain-text as required by gdb mailing list)
Hi,
I am currently trying to integrate Python support into my toolchain
build (including GDB of course). It is a sysrooted
binutils+GCC+GDB+mingw-w64 toolchain.
I currently have the basic setup working: I can link gdb with my
manually generated
On May 12, 2011, at 11:30 AM, Eric Snow wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
> The docs say:
>
> [http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html]
> Objects of different types, except different numeric types and different
> string types, never compare equal
>
> [http://docs.p
Roy Smith wrote:
I recently observed in the "checking if a list is empty" thread that a
list and a subclass of list can compare equal:
class MyList(list):
"I'm a subclass"
l1 = []
l2 = MyList()
print type(l1), type(l2)
print type(l1) == type(l2)
print l1 == l2
On 5/12/11 6:06 AM, Tambet wrote:
Hello!
Let's say slice is multidimensional now - how to interpret it?
I excpect these to work:
* m[0, 3] - get one element from matrix
* m[0:2, 0:2] - get four elements from matrix, iterate over them (I have
actually an rtree if it doesn't make s
On 05/12/2011 12:13 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>[snip]
> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/07/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats.html
>
> Shorter version: it seems that programming aptitude is a bimodal
> distribution, with very little migration from the "can't program" hum
Roy Smith wrote:
On May 12, 2011, at 11:30 AM, Eric Snow wrote:
That definitely makes it unclear.
I don't think it's unclear at all. It's very clear. Clearly wrong :-)
While it is wrong (it should have 'built-in' precede the word 'types'),
it is not wrong in the way you think -- a subcla
On 2011.05.11 01:05 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> You want to raise specific errors. Let's say you've got a function like
> this:
>
> def airspeed(swallow):
>speeds = {"european": 42,
> "african", 196}
>return speeds[swallow]
>
> If somebody passes an invalid string, it will raise K
Hello.
The attached file is script of blender fact in python that .tmb serves to
concern archives (secondly attached file), unloadings to blender and uses
script and concerns the second file that you shipment you see so that it.
Everything can be published and, but it is not possible to be exp
2011/5/12 Jean Carlos Páez Ramírez
> Hello.
>
> The attached file is script of blender fact in python that .tmb serves to
> concern archives (secondly attached file), unloadings to blender and uses
> script and concerns the second file that you shipment you see so that it.
> Everything can be pu
On 12/05/2011 20:14, Andrew Berg wrote:
On 2011.05.11 01:05 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
You want to raise specific errors. Let's say you've got a function like
this:
def airspeed(swallow):
speeds = {"european": 42,
"african", 196}
return speeds[swallow]
If somebody passes an in
2011/5/12 Jean Carlos Páez Ramírez
> To ok there is no problem friend, of all ways thanks, I will see that I
> can do, nor in the pages Web of blender they answer to me.
>
> Thanks friend.
>
> Regads,
>
> Jean P.
>
> --
> From: felipe.vintur...@gmail.com
> Date: Thu,
On 5/11/2011 8:26 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
I conclude that li == [] should have returned False. Either I'm not
understanding things correctly, or this is a bug.
The doc is wrong (and not only on this). I am working on a report with
suggested fixes. Will post number when finish.
--
Terry Jan Re
On 5/12/2011 9:30 AM, Genstein wrote:
With 3.2 on winxp, that is what I get with StringIO, text file, and
bytes file (the first two with b's removed). I would expect the same on
any system. If you get anything different, I would consider it a bug
Thanks Terry, you're entirely right there; I tri
On 5/12/2011 9:11 AM, JamesEM wrote:
I would prefer to generate the properties code dynamically from the
keys of the dictionaries.
What I am looking for is something like:
class MyClass(object):
def __init__(self):
self.d = {}
d['field1'] = 1.0
d['field2'] = 'A'
On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
> You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get something
like "NameError: name 'HelloError' is not defined". I don't know how to
define the exception.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/
Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> I'm using optparse for a little Python script.
>
> 1. The output from "--help" is:
> """
> Usage: script.py
>
> script.py does something
>
> Options:
> -h, --help show this help message and exit
> """
>
> I would prefer to have the description before the usage, lik
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 05/12/2011 04:12 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
>> You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
> If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get something
> like "NameError: name 'HelloError' is not
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 03:12:39PM -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
> > You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
> If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get something
> like "NameError: name 'HelloError' is not defined". I don't know how
On 12/05/2011 21:12, Andrew Berg wrote:
On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get something
like "NameError: name 'HelloError' is not defined". I don't know how to
define the exception.
Andrew Berg wrote:
On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get something
like "NameError: name 'HelloError' is not defined". I don't know how to
define the exception.
class HelloError(Exce
On 2011.05.12 03:20 PM, Corey Richardson wrote:
> class HelloError(Exception):
> pass
>
> Of course, there are all sorts of other things you could do with your
> exception.
>
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/errors.html#user-defined-exceptions
So that's where that info is. I wasn't looking in
On 12/05/2011 20:44, Terry Reedy wrote:
I want people to know that with a simple, minimal, easy to run and
reproduce and think about test case posted, more info, more test cases,
and probable fixes were posted within an hour. (Fixes are not always
that quick, but stripping away irrelevancies real
On 05/12/2011 10:22 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Thorsten Kampe wrote:
I'm using optparse for a little Python script.
1. The output from "--help" is:
"""
Usage: script.py
script.py does something
Options:
-h, --help show this help message and exit
"""
I would prefer to have the
On 5/12/2011 12:17 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:58 AM, John Machin wrote:
On Thu, May 12, 2011 4:31 pm, harrismh777 wrote:
So, the UTF-16 UTF-32 is INTERNAL only, for Python
NO. See one of my previous messages. UTF-16 and UTF-32, like UTF-8 are
encodings for the EXTERNAL
Ethan Furman wrote:
> PS
> I have a broken sense of humor -- sometimes it works, sometimes it
> doesn't. My apologies in advance if my attempt at humor was not funny.
Now that was very unpythonic. Know where your roots are! :)
--
PointedEars
Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail. / Please do not Cc:
vijay swaminathan wrote:
> I have already done that. But for some reason my response went
> as a new thread. Attaching the code again.
JFYI: Please DO NOT post attachments in a non-binary newsgroup
or to a mailing list (are there binary ones at all?) again. TIA.
--
PointedEars
Bitte keine Kop
On May 12, 2:29 pm, Ethan Furman wrote:
> While it is wrong (it should have 'built-in' precede the word 'types'),
> it is not wrong in the way you think -- a subclass *is* a type of its
> superclass.
Well, consider this:
class List_A(list):
"A list subclass"
class List_B(list):
"Anothe
Roy Smith wrote:
On May 12, 2:29 pm, Ethan Furman wrote:
While it is wrong (it should have 'built-in' precede the word 'types'),
it is not wrong in the way you think -- a subclass *is* a type of its
superclass.
Well, consider this:
class List_A(list):
"A list subclass"
class List_B(lis
On 5/12/2011 3:37 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 5/11/2011 8:26 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
I conclude that li == [] should have returned False. Either I'm not
understanding things correctly, or this is a bug.
The doc is wrong (and not only on this). I am working on a report with
suggested fixes. Will po
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 5/12/2011 12:17 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> Right. *Under the hood* Python uses UCS-2 (which is not exactly the
>> same thing as UTF-16, by the way) to represent Unicode strings.
>
> I know some people say that, but according to the definitions
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:03:26PM -0400, Jorge Romero wrote:
> Actually came back with some feedback to my own question.
>
> The following repositories do the job:
> # /etc/apt/sources.list
> deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
> deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian
I was trying to call the builtin function min by using
getattr(__builtins__,'min')
This works at the interpretter prompt
However when I called it inside a module that was imported by another module
it fails and gives an attribute error
print getattr(__builtins__,'min')(range(20))
AttributeError:
On Thu, 12 May 2011 07:36:27 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <931adaf9g...@mid.individual.net>,
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
>
>> Roy Smith wrote:
>> >>If both are numbers, they are converted to a common type. Otherwise,
>> >>objects of different types always compare unequal
>>
>> That's just t
On Thu, 12 May 2011 09:43:23 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> MyList is a list -- just a more specific kind of list -- as can be seen
> from its mro; this is analogous to a square (2 sets of parallel lines
> joined at 90 degree angles, both sets being the same length) also being
> a rectangle (2 sets
On Thu, 12 May 2011 15:26:27 -0500, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 03:12:39PM -0500, Andrew Berg wrote:
>> On 2011.05.12 02:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
>> > You can raise an exception wherever you like! :-)
>> If I raise an exception that isn't a built-in exception, I get
>> something like
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2011 09:43:23 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
MyList is a list -- just a more specific kind of list -- as can be seen
from its mro; this is analogous to a square (2 sets of parallel lines
joined at 90 degree angles, both sets being the same length) also being
a
Andrew Berg writes:
> So that's where that info is. I wasn't looking in the tutorial
> section.
Does this mean you haven't worked through the tutorial? Time to remedy
that.
--
\ “You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and |
`\Soviet composers, artists, and writer
In article ,
Ethan Furman wrote:
> > [http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html]
> > Objects of different types, except different numeric types and different
> > string types, never compare equal
>
> This part of the documentation is talking about built-in types, which
> your MyList is not
En Thu, 12 May 2011 20:29:57 -0300, Aman Nijhawan
escribió:
I was trying to call the builtin function min by using
getattr(__builtins__,'min')
This works at the interpretter prompt
However when I called it inside a module that was imported by another
module
it fails and gives an attribut
En Thu, 12 May 2011 22:59:24 -0300, Gabriel Genellina
escribió:
En Thu, 12 May 2011 20:29:57 -0300, Aman Nijhawan
escribió:
I was trying to call the builtin function min by using
getattr(__builtins__,'min')
This works at the interpretter prompt
However when I called it inside a module
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Calvin Spealman wrote:
> If this is the "non-programming side of python" then maybe some of us have
> a lacking definition of what "programming" is. My mechanic stilll has to
> check the tire pressure and I need to update the version number in PyPI.
>
O well you
Hi Tim.,
Thanks.. This works as I had expected.
are there any documentation for the subprocess.call method? I tried going
through the python doc but could not narrow down. I just wanted to know how
do I pass an arguement after invoking the command prompt?
Any thoughts on this pls?
On Thu, May
On May 12, 10:04 pm, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 5/12/2011 9:11 AM, JamesEM wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would prefer to generate the properties code dynamically from the
> > keys of the dictionaries.
> > What I am looking for is something like:
>
> > class MyClass(object):
>
> > def __init__(self):
> >
On 12 mai, 18:17, Ian Kelly wrote:
> ...
> to worry about encodings are when you're encoding unicode characters
> to byte strings, or decoding bytes to unicode characters
A small but important correction/clarification:
In Unicode, "unicode" does not encode a *character*. It
encodes a *code poi
Mathematics has existed for millenia.
Hindu-arabic numerals (base-10 numbers) have been known for about one
millennium
The boolean domain is only a 100 years old.
Unsurprisingly it is not quite 'first-class' yet: See
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1070.html
[Lifted fro
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