I think the point is there is not much to discuss. Goto is not going to be
added. Furthermore, for every program language you want to translate from
source, you have to find a workaround. Otherwise, your translation will
only work for languages that have goto. Even so the implementation may not
be
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Rob Gaddi
wrote:
> On 12/28/2017 04:35 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>>
>> Jorge> I would like to know if there is a goto command or something
>> similar that
>> Jorge> I can use in Python.
>>
>> Ned> Python does not h
On 12/28/2017 04:35 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
Jorge> I would like to know if there is a goto command or something similar that
Jorge> I can use in Python.
Ned> Python does not have a goto statement. You have to use structured
Ned> statements: for, while, try/except, yield, return,
to use it on my own terms, regardless of whether the
result is 'pythonic'. If the language had 'goto', then I would use it if
I found it apt.
However, the discussion here is academic, so it doesn't matter who uses
what.
Apart from anything else, Python is never going
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:51 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 29/12/2017 18:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the
>>> source
>>> language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in
On 29/12/2017 18:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the source
language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in the target
language, then gotos would be very useful in the latter
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:11 AM, wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:35:06 PM UTC, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
>> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still
>> >> exits
>> >> v
On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:35:06 PM UTC, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> >>
> >> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still
> >> exits
> >> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still exits
>> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try for one "return" per
>> procedure (so I'm more likely to have an "if ...: break"
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still exits
> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try for one "return" per
> procedure (so I'm more likely to have an "if ...: break" then "if ...:
> return").
I have always tried to enforc
for you.
>>
>> Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
>> over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
>
> Most use of goto's implies a lack of understanding of the unseen
> architecture of the problem domain itsel
>> I don’t use gotos in C code. Why should it be “harder” in a higher-level
>> language?
>
> Good for you.
>
> Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
Most use of goto
(Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
why ?
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 01/01/2018 15:06, From wrote:
(Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
why ?
Huh?
I'm posting to the usenet group comp.lang.python (an off-topic reply to
an off-topic remark, but it happens).
I've no idea what the prohibited part is about, if that's what you're
pos
On 01/01/2018 14:54, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
On 2017-12-30 11:07:56 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Yes. I don't know any language which enforces "pure" structured
programming. They all have some constructs (goto, break, return,
exceptions, ...) to leave a block early. I d
On 2017-12-30 11:07:56 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:46:14 +0100, "Peter J. Holzer"
> declaimed the following:
>
> >I don't think this is correct. Structured programming is much older:
> >ALGOL 60 was already a block structured
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:56:16 PM UTC, bartc wrote:
> On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamoreboy wrote:
>
> >Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
> >over the lack of goto
>
> Neither have I over all the advanced features of P
On 01/01/2018 00:40, MRAB wrote:
On 2017-12-31 23:21, bartc wrote:
[Block delimiting]
proc fn2(int a)=
...
end
(or possibly "inline f123=").
[snip]
OT: if "case ... esac" and "if ... fi", why not "proc ... corp"? :-)
(I don't think Algol-68 used corp otherwise it might have been copied
On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
over the lack of goto
Neither have I over all the advanced features of Python I never use, and
for double that number of years.
Yet for some they will
On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
I would use functions every time as a modern compiler can inline them
This
Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
over the lack of goto
And this. (In my case only 6 years.)
--
https://mail.pytho
bartc writes:
> On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
>> No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
>> cut)
>>
>> | If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
>> | avoiding goto was worth doing, I
On 2017-12-31 23:21, bartc wrote:
On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
cut)
| If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
| avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
but I'm not
On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
cut)
| If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
| avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
but I'm not sure you know if it's worth
er.
No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
cut)
| If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
| avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
but I'm not sure you know if it's worth it or not. So here's my
question again: w
nt ("Four")
> else:
> print ("Other")
> F123()
>
> However, if I call this with fn2(3), it says that variable F123 has not been
> assigned.
Right, so you'd move it one line up (or move the 'if' down to below
the function definit
On 31/12/2017 19:29, bartc wrote:
[Ignore the original, incomplete version of my post, which appears after
the sig.
I decided to actually try it out for real instead of just guessing!
Good thing too.]
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
hen a==2 so that F123()
is not called?
A brief test [not using print()] showed it was a little slower having
F123 inside fn2() - and outside the if-statement to make it work - than
having F123 outside. And having to call F123() anyway instead of just
having the inline code makes it a little
>> I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that to avoid
> >>>> duplication. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplication
> >>>> is. Generally, the 'goto' solution results in subsequent programmers
> >>>> (such as m
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 3:55 AM, bartc wrote:
>> The suggestion was to use them to avoid gotos. If duplicating is a good
>> idea (and it's a hard line to draw) then we are not talking about the
>> same cases. Given the choice of "dragging in named functions" and
>> dragging in named blocks and go
On 31/12/2017 15:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
I think there's a problem with that. Standard C does not have them, you
said your language does not implement them properly
(The real problem is I don't remember local functions being used
anywhere else. It's an idiom I'm not used to
tion. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplication
>>>> is. Generally, the 'goto' solution results in subsequent programmers
>>>> (such as my future selves) staring at the code for 30-60 seconds to
>>>> figure out what it's doing. I don&#
On 31/12/2017 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that to avoid
duplication. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplication
is. Generally,
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bartc wrote:
>
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens
inly scales better and
>> will allow for better structuring (such as when one block needs to use
>> another one).
>
> Using a local (or even non-local) function is what I'm trying to
> avoid, as I prefer to keep the code inline, and not disrupt it too
> much.
That's
On 2017-12-30 23:22, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Stefan Ram wrote:
BASIC has
DEF FN...
which /can/ define actual subroutines, limited to expressions.
Now, what does this limitation remind me of?
The equivalent limitation in Python is nowhere near as bad,
since if you outgrow what lambda can
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>
>> bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
>>> needing to duplicate code,
>>
>>
>> This onl
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
tail of each case.
IME that seems to be the most common situation.
Any other
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
tail of each case. Any other situation and you're back to
local functions.
--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/ma
bartc wrote:
C doesn't in general have local functions. My own languages don't
implement them properly. So I tend not to use them.
Looks like there's something circular going on here. You don't
have much experience of using local functions, so you don't
see a lot of value in them, so you haven'
Stefan Ram wrote:
BASIC has
DEF FN...
which /can/ define actual subroutines, limited to expressions.
Now, what does this limitation remind me of?
The equivalent limitation in Python is nowhere near as bad,
since if you outgrow what lambda can do you can always
use a def instead. BASIC
o use
>> another one).
>
>
> Using a local (or even non-local) function is what I'm trying to avoid, as I
> prefer to keep the code inline, and not disrupt it too much.
>
> You may also want to execute a block only temporarily, or as part of a short
> test. So you d
On 30/12/2017 20:36, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before compl
> On Dec 30, 2017, at 7:46 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>
> On 2017-12-29 19:09:35 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:12:22 +, bartc declaimed the
>> following:
>>> Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
>
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> bartc writes:
>
>> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
>>>
>>> Understatement of 2017.
>>
>> I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
>> special symbols
bartc writes:
> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
>> On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
>>> it looks a bit naff
>>
>> Understatement of 2017.
>
> I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
> special symbols such as "::" and "@".
>
> Before completely dismissing it however
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:41 AM, bartc wrote:
> (I had introduced a special language feature just for this kind of thing,
> but it was unsatisfactory. Goto was simpler and understood by everyone. And
> portable to any other language - that hasn't done away with goto. But it
>
On 2017-12-30 18:21, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before completely dismissing it howev
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before completely dismissing it however, you should look at how anothe
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 30/12/2017 03:05, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 12:12:23 PM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
That kind of thing leads to spaghetti c
On 2017-12-29 19:09:35 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:12:22 +, bartc declaimed the
> following:
> >Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> >over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
> &g
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 8:35:27 AM UTC+5:30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro
wrote:
> On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 12:12:23 PM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
> > Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> > over 100,000 of them use 'goto'.
hink often one wish to use it just to avoid "if" blocks in
obvious situations - no need to setup flags and indent/unindent code blocks.
Apart from that, I personally would prefer it in such typical code:
if a :
a()
goto "end"
if b :
b()
goto "end"
if c
I don’t use gotos in C code. Why should it be “harder” in a higher-level
language?
Good for you.
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
My own low level sources use about one goto every 400
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C, over
100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
Isn't C's goto statement restricted to the current function? I imagine
setjmp and longjmp calls might be more insidious.
Skip
--
https://mai
should it be “harder” in a higher-level
language?
Good for you.
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
My own low level sources use about one goto every 400 lines. It's hardly
a lot. If
On 29/12/2017 21:56, Stefan Ram wrote:
Chris Angelico writes:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
PHP also added goto to a later version.
Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
I thought th
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> PHP also added goto to a later version.
>>
>> Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
>
> I thought that that was a reason
On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> PHP also added goto to a later version.
>
> Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
I thought that that was a reason to not do it.
--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.co
On 29/12/2017 20:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM, bartc wrote:
On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>>
>>> How to use goto in python?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>
On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask how to use an unavailable statement (GOTO), why not
investigate why no modern languages use it
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
> How to use goto in python?
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask how to use an unavailable statement (GOTO), why not
investigate why no modern languages use it?
--
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
> If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the source
> language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in the target
> language, then gotos would be very useful in the latter.
>
As has already been said in this th
On 2017-12-28, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Though it appears some wag has used function decorators to implement
> goto statements:
>
> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/goto-statement/1.1
>
> Rather clever, it seems.
That's brilliant!
Not that I'd look kindly on anybody wh
On 29/12/2017 09:52, alister wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:54:31 -0800, breamoreboy wrote:
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http
On 28/12/2017 22:38, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2017-12-29 08:42, Ben Finney wrote:
Duram writes:
How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
so quick to
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:54:31 -0800, breamoreboy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>>
>> > How to use goto in python?
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This e
On Friday, December 29, 2017 at 3:28:23 AM UTC, Ben Finney wrote:
> Tim Chase writes:
>
> > [third-party website]
> > Gives you […]
>
> So, it's not in Python, it's a third-party (joke) package. Hence is
> probably not what Duram is asking about as “go
Tim Chase writes:
> [third-party website]
> Gives you […]
So, it's not in Python, it's a third-party (joke) package. Hence is
probably not what Duram is asking about as “goto in Python”.
I'm still open to learning what Duram meant by “goto in Python”. Rather
than everyon
On 2017-12-29 08:42, Ben Finney wrote:
> Duram writes:
>
> > How to use goto in python?
>
> Step 0: what is goto in Python?
>
> Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
> asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
so q
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>
> > How to use goto in python?
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
>
> Dont!
>
On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:17 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 28/12/2017 21:42, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> Duram writes:
>>
>>> How to use goto in python?
>>
>>
>> Step 0: what is goto in Python?
>>
>> Step 1: that's not something that exi
bartc writes:
> But it's not accessible from the language.
Another way to say that (and the way I said the same thing) is: It
doesn't exist in Python.
--
\ “I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms |
`\ from the statues that are in all the other museums.” —Ste
On 28/12/2017 21:42, Ben Finney wrote:
Duram writes:
How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
Goto exists in the form of the JUMP_ABSOLUTE byte-
Duram writes:
> How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
--
\“[R]ightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our |
`\
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
> How to use goto in python?
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
Dont!
actually you cant - there isn't one*
*at least not in the core language no doubt some sick person will h
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
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Jorge> I would like to know if there is a goto command or something similar that
Jorge> I can use in Python.
Ned> Python does not have a goto statement. You have to use structured
Ned> statements: for, while, try/except, yield, return, etc.
Though it appears some wag has used functio
On 12/28/17 6:43 AM, jorge.conr...@cptec.inpe.br wrote:
Hi,
I would like to know if there is a goto command or something similar
that I can use in Python.
Python does not have a goto statement. You have to use structured
statements: for, while, try/except, yield, return, etc.
If you
Hi,
I would like to know if there is a goto command or something similar
that I can use in Python.
Thanks,
Conrado
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
uctions actually helps with
> readability, despite I have never seriously used other languages
> than python so I cannot judge GOTO specifically.
> [...]
> Seriously, when I open some random .py file from the web
> and everywhere see class, class, class, kilometers of indentation...
&
ones.
>
> Dear gods, have I fallen back in time to 1975 again?
>
Everything new is definitely better, right?
> Are there reasonable uses for GOTO? Perhaps. There are semi-structured
> restricted versions of GOTO, like exceptions, break and return, but an
> unrestricted GOTO wher
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
And since the original COBOL standard numeric format was BCD, PIC not
only defined output layout, but also internal storage needed by numerics
and string data types.
Unless you said USAGE IS COMPUTATIONAL, which left the compiler
free to pick a more efficient st
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram):
> struct example
> { PIC<5,X<15>> last_name;
> PIC<88,VALUE<1,3,5,7,9>> odd_numbers; }
>
> . The above assumes appropriate definitions for »VALUE« (as a
> variadic template) »PIC«, and »X«. Only a C++ expert would be able
> to provide thes
On 04/14/2017 07:19 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:44:59 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
declaimed the following:
Even that's not enough for some. Donald Knuth, who supports the use of GOTO
under some circumstances, maintains that any program using GOTOs should
have the
al subroutines
>>that don't allow it.
>>
> REXX probably allows it too... (No GOTO, but the SIGNAL statement can
> do unconditional jumps to named labels)... Hmmm, if I read the manual
> correctly, any use of SIGNAL will terminate loops, even if the SIGNAL and
>
Bernd Nawothnig wrote:
> On 2017-04-13, Mikhail V wrote:
> > On 13 April 2017 at 18:48, Ian Kelly wrote:
> >> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> >>> Now I wonder, have we already collected *all* bells and whistles of Python
> >>> in these two examples, or is there something els
On 2017-04-13, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2017-04-13, Rob Gaddi wrote:
>
>> No, C doesn't support exception handling. As a result, handling error
>> conditions in C is a huge pain for which (forward-only) goto is often,
>> while not the only remedy, the least pai
On 2017-04-13, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 13 April 2017 at 18:48, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
>>> Now I wonder, have we already collected *all* bells and whistles of Python
>>> in these two examples, or is there something else for expressing trivial
>>> thin
in time to 1975 again?
The Goto Wars are over, and the structured programming camp won the war
decisively.
Are functions/procedures *technically* slower than GOTOs? Yes. So what?
You're nano-optimizing the wrong thing: you're saving a microsecond of
runtime at the cost of a megasecon
Gregory Ewing :
> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it?
>
> Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although usually
> in the guise of an output formatting facility rather than a way of
> describing how data is stored internally. For example,
Ian Kelly wrote:
Yikes. I never took the time to learn COBOL, but that almost sounds
like something that you'd find in an esoteric language like INTERCAL.
COBOL has other fun stuff like that, too. For example, the
destination of a GOTO statement can be changed from elsewhere
in the pr
Steve D'Aprano wrote:
If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it?
Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although
usually in the guise of an output formatting facility rather
than a way of describing how data is stored internally.
For example, the PRINT USING found in s
le way. You also need to
> consider the lesser mortals, the below-average 50% of programmers who will
> use the feature in sub-optimal if not outright terrible ways.
>
> GOTOs are far to easy to abuse. The harm that they do is outweighed a
> thousand times by the rare positive use. Mo
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:03:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > [Sorry its a vague memory of something I read more than a decade ago that
> > [I cant
> > trace again]
> > Some unknown Cobol programmer talking about Dijkstra:
> >
> > D
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:52 am, bartc wrote:
> I know this isn't the Python need-for-speed thread, but this is a
> classic example where the lack of one simple feature leads to using
> slower, more cumbersome ones.
Dear gods, have I fallen back in time to 1975 again?
The Goto Wars
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> Meyer's "Considered Harmful Essays Considered Harmful" essay is
>> hypocritical junk, and should be considered harmful.
>
> Your view.
Well duh :-)
> Here's an alter
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nathan Ernst wrote:
> Thank you for that Alan Kay quote. Brightened up my day. Since you also
> mentioned COBOL, and this is a thread about "goto", reminded me of the
> single most abhorrent thing I ever saw in COBOL (I had to convert a s
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