[Sorry to revive an old thread, but I was away when it occurred
and I'd like to make a comment...]
Kevin Walzer wrote:
This library isn't much different from other Python GUI toolkits--it's
dependent on underlying, rather large, platform-specific
implementations--but it provides an even higher
On 01/20/2011 11:17 AM, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> The problem with QT is the license.
PyQT indeed is licensed poorly for anything that's not GPL. But Qt
itself is dual-licensed under GPL and the LGPL, as of version 4.6 I
think. The LGPL license would seem to be quite acceptable even for
commerc
On Jan 20, 8:34 pm, Neil Hodgson wrote:
This is exactly what Aristotle meant when he said...
""" Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society! """
Specifically no one here has the nerve to question/argue Guido when he
offers such weak arguments like the "tag" argument. Can you
Littlefield, Tyler schrieb:
>And of course, it should also offer support for Windows, since most of
the computer users use Windows, especially those who need accessibility
features.
uh. no, and no.
Plenty of those utilizing screen readers are using macs nowadays, as
well as vinux or some deri
>And of course, it should also offer support for Windows, since most of
the computer users use Windows, especially those who need accessibility
features.
uh. no, and no.
Plenty of those utilizing screen readers are using macs nowadays, as
well as vinux or some derivitave there of.
--
Thanks,
From: "Adam Skutt" > Yet, for some unfathomable reason,
you keep promoting
I would be glad if you could tell me about a portable solution which is
accessible with JAWS and Window Eyes, the most used screen readers under
Windows (real glad).
I did, Qt. I'm not yournanny and I'm not going to go
Emile van Sebille:
> The problem with QT is the license.
>
> From http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/:
>
> Qt Commercial Developer License
> The Qt Commercial Developer License is the correct license to use for
> the development of proprietary and/or commercial software ...
The LGPL vers
On 20/01/2011 23:15, rantingrick wrote:
On Jan 20, 5:08 pm, MRAB wrote:
On 20/01/2011 21:52, rantingrick wrote:> On Jan 20, 3:06 pm, Emile van
Sebillewrote:
[snip]
Greg Wilson's reaction was "Yes please", and he went on to explain
what factors kept him using Tkinter for a recent course:
>
> Greg Wilson -
> I thought about using wxPython in the most recent run of my Python
> course, but
> decided to stick to Tkinter because:
>
> - There isn't a wxWindows/wxPython book (matters a lot when
> organizations are
> trying to decide what to adopt for long-term use).
> Greg
On Jan 20, 5:01 pm, Jerry Hill wrote:
> I think that's referring to this
> email:http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-October/010046.html
Greg Wilson -
I thought about using wxPython in the most recent run of my Python
course, but
decided to stick to Tkinter because:
- Th
On Jan 20, 5:08 pm, MRAB wrote:
> On 20/01/2011 21:52, rantingrick wrote:> On Jan 20, 3:06 pm, Emile van
> Sebille wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >> Greg Wilson's reaction was "Yes please", and he went on to explain
> >> what factors kept him using Tkinter for a recent course:
> > http://www.python.org/
On Jan 20, 5:01 pm, Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:52 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> >> Greg Wilson's reaction was "Yes please", and he went on to explain
> >> what factors kept him using Tkinter for a recent course:
> > http://www.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-October/0167
On 20/01/2011 21:52, rantingrick wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:06 pm, Emile van Sebille wrote:
[snip]
Greg Wilson's reaction was "Yes please", and he went on to explain
what factors kept him using Tkinter for a recent course:
http://www.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-October/016757.html
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:52 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>> Greg Wilson's reaction was "Yes please", and he went on to explain
>> what factors kept him using Tkinter for a recent course:
> http://www.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-October/016757.html
>
> Well that link is broken so we will
On Jan 20, 3:06 pm, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> You might find this interesting...
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2000-November/0...
> Yes, it's old. That's part of the reason you get no traction on this.
Thanks Emile. This read was both hair raising and informative.
Fol
On 1/20/2011 12:17 PM rantingrick said...
Well as far as i am concerned that takes QT out of the contest. So
that leaves WxPython and pyGTK as the only viable options that are
mature libraries. Both carry the LGPL license.
http://www.pygtk.org/
http://www.wxwidgets.org/about/newlicen.htm
On Jan 20, 2:37 pm, Adam Skutt wrote:
> On Jan 20, 1:17 pm, Emile van Sebille wrote:
>
>
>
> > The problem with QT is the license.
>
> Qt and wxWidgets are both LGPL and equally non-starters due to
> license, today.
Everything out there is LGPL! But you cannot just use that argument to
keep Tkin
On Jan 20, 3:02 pm, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> From: "Adam Skutt" > Yet, for some unfathomable reason, you
> keep promoting
> I would be glad if you could tell me about a portable solution which is
> accessible with JAWS and Window Eyes, the most used screen readers under
> Windows (real glad)
On Jan 20, 1:17 pm, Emile van Sebille wrote:
>
> The problem with QT is the license.
Qt and wxWidgets are both LGPL and equally non-starters due to
license, today. There was a hypothetical assumption on my part that
the library would be made license compatible somehow, through the
entire discussi
From: "Adam Skutt"
> Yet, for some unfathomable reason, you keep promoting
wxWidgets even though it is plainly the inferior solution.
Inferior to what?
I would be glad if you could tell me about a portable solution which is
accessible with JAWS and Window Eyes, the most used screen readers und
From: "Grant Edwards"
WxPython is bad. Gtk
>> is inaccessible under Windows, not under Linux, but WxPython doesn't
>> use Gtk under Windows so WxPython is OK.
>
> Ah. I didn't realize we were operating under the premise that Windows
> was the only OS that mattered. Sorry.
This conclusion is h
On Jan 20, 12:17 pm, Emile van Sebille wrote:
> The problem with QT is the license.
>
> Fromhttp://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/:
>
> Qt Commercial Developer License
> The Qt Commercial Developer License is the correct license to use for
> the development of proprietary and/or commercial soft
On Jan 20, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Nick Stinemates wrote:
>
> > So you're going to lead the "peasants" (your word) whether they like it
> > or not, and any who don't want to follow are clearly being selfish and
> > ignorant?
>
> If you could read Bill's words and not find them to be overly selfish
>
On 1/20/2011 9:32 AM Adam Skutt said...
On Jan 20, 10:44 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
From: "Adam Skutt"
Actually, JAWS uses MSAA dead last, as I understand it, because the
API is truly that awful. But MSAA is necessary whenever you're not
using a Win32 common control or most of the other stu
>
>
> > So you're going to lead the "peasants" (your word) whether they like it
> > or not, and any who don't want to follow are clearly being selfish and
> > ignorant?
>
> If you could read Bill's words and not find them to be overly selfish
> and ignorant then i don't know what to say. He clearly
On 20/01/2011 17:36, rantingrick wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:13 am, MRAB wrote:
So you're going to lead the "peasants" (your word) whether they like it
or not, and any who don't want to follow are clearly being selfish and
ignorant?
If you could read Bill's words and not find them to be overly self
On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> From: "Bill Felton"
>> I'm a complete newbie to Python.
>
>
> To Python, or to programming in general? (Because it is important)
Not to rantingrick's point as I understand it.
But since you ask, new to Python, not new to programming. >25
On Jan 20, 11:13 am, MRAB wrote:
> So you're going to lead the "peasants" (your word) whether they like it
> or not, and any who don't want to follow are clearly being selfish and
> ignorant?
If you could read Bill's words and not find them to be overly selfish
and ignorant then i don't know wha
On Jan 20, 10:44 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> From: "Adam Skutt"
> Actually, JAWS uses MSAA dead last, as I understand it, because the
> API is truly that awful. But MSAA is necessary whenever you're not
> using a Win32 common control or most of the other stuff developed by
> MS. That means
On Jan 20, 10:36 am, rusi wrote:
> On Jan 20, 5:30 pm, Bill Felton
> > With some hesitation, I feel a need to jump in here.
> This thread is now at 239 posts (and so I too hesitate...)
Why hesitate? Whether it be one post or a million posts, if you have
ideas, opinions, or suggestions then by
On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:13 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 20/01/2011 15:11, rantingrick wrote:
>> On Jan 20, 6:30 am, Bill Felton
>> wrote:
>>
> [snip]
>>> As one of 'the people' who is presumably the focus of rantingrick's
>>> concern, let me assure him Tkinter is a non-issue. MIchael is more
>>> in touch
On Jan 20, 2011, at 10:11 AM, rantingrick wrote:
> On Jan 20, 6:30 am, Bill Felton
> wrote:
>
>> With some hesitation, I feel a need to jump in here. I'm a complete
>> newbie to Python. I'm still learning the language. And you know
>> what? I've ignored Tkinter.
>
> Well it is really not a goo
On 20/01/2011 15:11, rantingrick wrote:
On Jan 20, 6:30 am, Bill Felton
wrote:
[snip]
As one of 'the people' who is presumably the focus of rantingrick's
concern, let me assure him Tkinter is a non-issue. MIchael is more
in touch with my issues than rr.
FYI you are NOT one of the people that
On Jan 20, 5:30 pm, Bill Felton
wrote:
> With some hesitation, I feel a need to jump in here.
This thread is now at 239 posts (and so I too hesitate...)
The arguments for size, dependencies etc are what may be termed 'sys-
ad' perspectives.
The questions of 'it looks nice/ancient etc' are user
On Jan 20, 9:44 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > The wrong conclusion is that if Gtk is bad, then WxPython is bad. Gtk
> > is inaccessible under Windows, not under Linux, but WxPython doesn't
> > use Gtk under Windows so WxPython is OK.
>
> Ah. I didn't realize we were operating under the premise th
On 2011-01-20, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> From: "Grant Edwards"
On all of my computers, wxPython uses Gtk. There are other choices
for wxWidget backends on Linux, but Gtk is by far the most common.
IOW, if Gtk is bad, then wxPython is bad.
>>>
>>> Not true.
>>
>> I think you're pla
On 2011-01-20, Michael Torrie wrote:
> I don't see the original bizarre rants for some reason (spam filter
> likely), but I have to say this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard
> in some time. Tkinter the downfall of python? Wow. All of the python
> programmers I know (we use python every
From: "Adam Skutt"
Actually, JAWS uses MSAA dead last, as I understand it, because the
API is truly that awful. But MSAA is necessary whenever you're not
using a Win32 common control or most of the other stuff developed by
MS. That means essentially every non-MS toolkit that's been
discussed.
On Jan 20, 7:48 am, pyt...@bdurham.com wrote:
> Bill,
[...snip...]
> +1 (very well said)
Yes maybe Bill should be BDFL or a core developer. He has all the
answers. But no FACTS!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Jan 20, 6:30 am, Bill Felton
wrote:
> With some hesitation, I feel a need to jump in here. I'm a complete
> newbie to Python. I'm still learning the language. And you know
> what? I've ignored Tkinter.
Well it is really not a good idea to show your ignorance of a subject
matter directly befor
On Jan 20, 8:19 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> The Windows applications are not accessible only if they use MSAA. The
> screen readers know how to get the necessary information for making the
> interfaces accessible in other ways, but of course, it is harder for the
> screen reader manufacturers
Bill,
> I can't believe anyone is so hung up by their own arrogance that they
> honestly believe that the mere *presence* of a gui kit inside of the standard
> distribution would prevent a newbie from learning about the existence and
> possible benefits of alternatives ... ESPECIALLY in a langu
From: "Bill Felton"
I'm a complete newbie to Python.
To Python, or to programming in general? (Because it is important)
I'm still learning the language. And you know what? I've ignored
Tkinter.
Why did you do that?
I quickly discovered the alternatives and am already working with
w
From: "Adam Skutt"
On Jan 20, 2:22 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
Where do you got the conclusion that the accessibility is so poor?
By an examination of the facts. MSAA is universally hated and all
screen readers actively have to work around it and its many
limitations (meaning that as an ap
On Jan 19, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 01/19/2011 05:01 PM, geremy condra wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:04 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>>> And you've also lost all
>>> connection with the people. I am desperately trying to to snap you out
>>> of this psychosis before it is too
On Jan 20, 2:22 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> Where do you got the conclusion that the accessibility is so poor?
By an examination of the facts. MSAA is universally hated and all
screen readers actively have to work around it and its many
limitations (meaning that as an application programmer,
From: "Terry Reedy"
On 1/19/2011 11:27 AM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Note: Currently, accessibility is only available via ATK<=> AT-SPI on
Linux. Sorry, no Windows MSAA support.
This project is good, a step ahead, but in order to be really useful it
should be the one provided by the default
From: "Adam Skutt"
The fact that /every/ toolkit provides accessibility guidelines over
and above whatever other UI guidelines they provide tells me that
creating an accessible application is hardly obvious. Plus, if it
were really that simple, the accessibility situation wouldn't be so
poor.
:
From: "Grant Edwards"
On all of my computers, wxPython uses Gtk. There are other choices
for wxWidget backends on Linux, but Gtk is by far the most common.
IOW, if Gtk is bad, then wxPython is bad.
Not true.
I think you're playing a bit fast and loose with your accusations.
:-)
I've made
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 7:56 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>> > But together, they
>> > are a force to reckoned with. Well, unless the driver is Asian -- then
>> > all bets are off! :-)
>>
>> Hahaha, racism was so funny in the 1700's! Now it's just asinine.
>
> Actually the joke is on you Geremy. Obvious
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 18:53, rantingrick wrote:
> Without the car the driver is
> nothing, and without the driver the car is nothing. But together, they
> are a force to reckoned with. Well, unless the driver is Asian -- then
> all bets are off! :-)
Welcome to the auto-deletion filter.
--
ht
On Jan 19, 9:20 pm, Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> All of the python programmers I know (we use python every day at
> work) would say, "what is tkinter?" It's just not relevant to any of
> them that I know.
>
And that is the very point i am trying to make Micheal! TclTk is SO
old and dated that most p
On Jan 19, 9:22 pm, geremy condra wrote:
> Welcome to real life. You convince people that you're right or they
> don't do what you say.
Again you "think" (or miscomprehended rather!) that "somehow" i am
here to "make" you do anything. On the contrary Geremy, i am here to
"guide", to "foster", an
On 01/19/2011 05:01 PM, geremy condra wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:04 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>> And you've also lost all
>> connection with the people. I am desperately trying to to snap you out
>> of this psychosis before it is too late! Tkinter will be the downfall
>> of Python if we canno
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:53 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>> I don't think this is the case, first because you aren't very good at
>> getting anybody to take you seriously
>
> How "self absorbed" must someone be to blame *ME* because *THEY*
> cannot take *ME* seriously. Is this a joke Geremy? Sadly i kn
On Jan 19, 6:01 pm, geremy condra wrote:
> I'm not telling you to change your behavior. I'm telling you that the
> way you're doing things isn't effective. You can take that advice or
> not, just as I can decide to listen to you... or not.
>
> I also wouldn't advise you to change your name again.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:04 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:40 PM, geremy condra
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:37 AM, geremy condra wrote:
>>> No, it's about other operating systems too, but what it comes down to
>>> is that rantingrick has been on the warpath abou
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "geremy condra" To:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
>>
>> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from
>> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn G
On Jan 19, 12:22 pm, pa...@cruzio.com wrote:
> Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming
> commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into
> Python?
Well it comes down to "Guido, some Guys, and a mailing list". see this
link fro more detail.
On Jan 19, 4:40 pm, Adam Skutt wrote:
> On Jan 19, 4:04 pm, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> > Those rules for creating an accessible application are obvious; like the
> > fact that a button need to contain a text label and not only an image, or
> > that an image needs to have a tooltip defined, o
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:40 PM, geremy condra
wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:37 AM, geremy condra wrote:
>> No, it's about other operating systems too, but what it comes down to
>> is that rantingrick has been on the warpath about tkinter for a while,
>> and hasn't proposed a particularly
On Jan 19, 4:04 pm, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> Those rules for creating an accessible application are obvious; like the fact
> that a button need to contain a text label and not only an image, or that an
> image needs to have a tooltip defined, or that a radio button needs to have a
> label at
On Jan 19, 3:51 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-01-19, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Which of my statements was "not true"?
>
> 1) On all of my computers wxPython uses Gtk.
>
> 2) There are other backend choices on Linux besides Gtk.
>
> 3) Gtk is by far the most common wxWidgets backend on Li
On 1/19/2011 11:27 AM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Note: Currently, accessibility is only available via ATK<=> AT-SPI on
Linux. Sorry, no Windows MSAA support.
This project is good, a step ahead, but in order to be really useful it should
be the one provided by the default Python package.
And o
On 2011-01-19, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> From: "Grant Edwards"
>
>>> WxPython is not perfect but most of the objects it offers are
>>> accessible so this is not true. Only Tk and GTK are bad.
>>
>> On all of my computers, wxPython uses Gtk. There are other choices
>> for wxWidget backends on Li
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "geremy condra" To:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
>>
>> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from
>> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn G
On Jan 19, 12:22 pm, pa...@cruzio.com wrote:
> Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming
> commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into
> Python?
Well it comes down to "Guido, some Guys, and a mailing list". see this
link fro more detail
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
>>
>> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from
>> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's
>> using whatever is provided for me by default. Which i
From: "Adam Skutt" On Jan 19, 11:09 am, "Octavian Rasnita"
wrote:
> From: "Adam Skutt"
> > Accessibility always requires special effort, and I don't see how
> > changing toolkits gets away from this.
>
> This is the most false thing I ever heard and the most dangerous.
O RLY? http://www.wxwid
From: "Grant Edwards"
> On 2011-01-19, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>> From: "Adam Skutt"
>
>>> If you want functional accessibility support, you're going to have to
>>> write it in Python yourself, and get the accessibility manufacturers
>>> to support it. All of the cross-platform toolkits have p
From: "Adam Skutt"
> wxWidgets' support is completely inadequate for a true cross-platform
> system, the developers are aware of this and acknowledge this and
> believe a rewrite is necessary. Thus, it is currently really in no
> better state than Tk.
It depends on what you mean by a "true cross
On 1/19/2011 11:37 AM geremy condra said...
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
And aren't some of these libraries developed by 3rd parties?
Any library to replace tkinter would come from a third party, yes.
And how is that handled by the people in charge?
Again, there aren't rea
- Original Message -
From: "geremy condra"
To:
Cc: "rantingrick" ;
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
Now I think I understand a little better where you
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:37 AM, geremy condra wrote:
> No, it's about other operating systems too, but what it comes down to
> is that rantingrick has been on the warpath about tkinter for a while,
> and hasn't proposed a particularly viable alternative. The sad thing
> is that if he weren't so
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, wrote:
>
> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from --
> I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's using
> whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing. And if
> I had to add additional sof
> On Jan 18, 9:54 pm, Adam Skutt wrote:
>> On Jan 18, 9:27 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
>> At which point, it's pretty damn
>> small. Not as small as all of the Tk functionality, I think, but well
>> under 10MiB compressed.
>
> Yea but look at all your gaining. I would rather sacrifice a few megs
On 2011-01-19, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> From: "Adam Skutt"
>> If you want functional accessibility support, you're going to have to
>> write it in Python yourself, and get the accessibility manufacturers
>> to support it. All of the cross-platform toolkits have poor to non-
>> existent accessi
On Jan 19, 11:09 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> From: "Adam Skutt"
> > Accessibility always requires special effort, and I don't see how
> > changing toolkits gets away from this.
>
> This is the most false thing I ever heard and the most dangerous.
O RLY? http://www.wxwidgets.org/docs/techno
On Jan 19, 10:41 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> Not true. WxPython uses wxWIDGETS which uses the default OS widgets which
> usually offer the accessibility features.
> (At least under Windows, but most users that need accessibility use Windows
> anyway).
>
Right, under Windows, which is a pr
From:
> Mark/Octavian,
>
> It sounds like Tka11y (spelled with the digit '1' vs. the letter 'L')
> addresses this problem for Linux users.
>
> According to its website, adding accessability support is as simple as
> changing one import statement.
>
> Details follow my signature.
>
> Malcolm
>
From: "Adam Skutt"
On Jan 19, 1:37 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> The users shouldn't want something better. Everyone should create GUIs which
> are accessible for everyone by default, without making any special effort
> for doing this.
> Accessibility always requires special effort, and I do
From: "Mark Roseman"
> Octavian,
>
> Thank you for clearly articulating your concern that Tk does not provide
> any support for screen readers.
>
> While I believe that people can have legitimate differences of opinion
> as to whether this merits its removal/replacement from stdlib, there is
From: "Adam Skutt"
On Jan 19, 1:37 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> Most of the programmers don't know that and they don't even need to know
> that, but if a lib that create accessible GUIS would be promoted, most of
> the Python programmers would use that lib and would create good apps by
> def
From: "Adam Skutt"
On Jan 18, 3:23 pm, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> From: "Alexander Kapps"
>
> > Tkinter causes damage? Very bad damage? What are you talking about?
>
> I am talking about the fact that Python promotes Tkinter, and many beginners
> will start using it, and they will start creati
Mark/Octavian,
It sounds like Tka11y (spelled with the digit '1' vs. the letter 'L')
addresses this problem for Linux users.
According to its website, adding accessability support is as simple as
changing one import statement.
Details follow my signature.
Malcolm
Tka11y - Tk Accessibility
htt
Octavian,
Thank you for clearly articulating your concern that Tk does not provide
any support for screen readers.
While I believe that people can have legitimate differences of opinion
as to whether this merits its removal/replacement from stdlib, there is
no question that this is a serious a
On Jan 19, 1:37 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> Most of the programmers don't know that and they don't even need to know
> that, but if a lib that create accessible GUIS would be promoted, most of
> the Python programmers would use that lib and would create good apps by
> default, without even k
On Jan 19, 1:37 am, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
>
> The users shouldn't want something better. Everyone should create GUIs which
> are accessible for everyone by default, without making any special effort
> for doing this.
Accessibility always requires special effort, and I don't see how
changing t
On Jan 18, 3:23 pm, "Octavian Rasnita" wrote:
> From: "Alexander Kapps"
>
> > Tkinter causes damage? Very bad damage? What are you talking about?
>
> I am talking about the fact that Python promotes Tkinter, and many beginners
> will start using it, and they will start creating applications with
From: "rantingrick"
You know we Python programmers are professional debaters. This has
been my take on the Python community. However without the virtues of
compromise and community spirit all we are going to do is fight like
cats and dogs forever to the very detriment of the very community we
wi
From: "Terry Reedy"
On 1/18/2011 3:29 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Is there any other solution for the problem that Python promotes this
bad GUI than removing it from the default package?
I am generally for better accessibility, but I consider the notion that if
everyone cannot have somethin
From: "Terry Reedy"
On 1/18/2011 3:23 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I am talking about the fact that Python promotes Tkinter
Python uses tkinter as the only choice available for the stdlib.
Others choices not in the stdlib are available for those who want
something better.
The users shouldn
From: "Corey Richardson"
On 01/18/2011 11:15 PM, rantingrick wrote:
On Jan 18, 10:10 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
That is a pretty large dependency to rely on, and it is rather
undesirable IMO.
And what exactly is undesirable? Unless you actually back up your
statements with fact they just
From: "Alexander Kapps"
I didn't say that a GUI lib is useless. The GUIS that create
discrimination by offering access only for some users (when there are
other GUIS that can offer access to everyone) create damage and they
should be avoided, and for avoiding them, the beginners need to
under
On Jan 18, 9:54 pm, Adam Skutt wrote:
> On Jan 18, 9:27 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
> At which point, it's pretty damn
> small. Not as small as all of the Tk functionality, I think, but well
> under 10MiB compressed.
Yea but look at all your gaining. I would rather sacrifice a few megs
for the
On Jan 18, 10:35 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
> I'm done with this thread. I inserted my 12 cents. Have a nice day, and
> good luck with your ventures.
Bye
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 01/18/2011 11:15 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> On Jan 18, 10:10 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
>
>> That is a pretty large dependency to rely on, and it is rather
>> undesirable IMO.
>
> And what exactly is undesirable? Unless you actually back up your
> statements with fact they just ring hallow. Ca
On Jan 18, 10:10 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
> That is a pretty large dependency to rely on, and it is rather
> undesirable IMO.
And what exactly is undesirable? Unless you actually back up your
statements with fact they just ring hallow. Can you offer any specific
reasons why wx is a bad choice
On 01/18/2011 10:54 PM, Adam Skutt wrote:
> On Jan 18, 9:27 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
>>
>> Why would you add in only a part of wxPython, instead of all of it? Is
>> the work to cut it down really an advantage over the size of the full
>> toolkit? From what I just checked, the source tarball is
On Jan 18, 9:27 pm, Corey Richardson wrote:
>
> Why would you add in only a part of wxPython, instead of all of it? Is
> the work to cut it down really an advantage over the size of the full
> toolkit? From what I just checked, the source tarball is 40MB. Can that
> much really be added to the Pyt
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