Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-26 Thread Luca
Roald de Vries wrote: I would suggest to do choose the same strategy as 'from __future__ import ...' takes, which does similar things and limits them to the module it is used in. I would be curious to hear about your results. Kind regards, Roald Hi, well, i have thought on the issue and i th

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-26 Thread Roald de Vries
Hi Luca, On Feb 26, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Luca wrote: MRAB wrote: Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a translator. This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own extension since

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Ethan Furman
Luca wrote: [snippety] Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as "brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Diez B. Roggisch
On a related note, did you investigate SUGAR of the OLPC? I'd say these guys certainly tried to create something that appealed to children, and AFAIK it comes with a Python interpreter. I'm don't know anything about that, nor if it comes with learning material. Might be worth checking out. Die

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Luca
News123 wrote: a pragmatic approach might be to preprocess the source code and keep the original version as comments above the translated line. (for debugging) Not very nice to see though. This change should be transparent to the kid, he/she should not be aware of this "translation". or to

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Diez B. Roggisch
And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general. Keywords are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a concept, and people immediatly accept them when they want them. Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was a middle schooler (no computer be

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Luca
MRAB wrote: Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a translator. This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own extension since we are talking of a special-purpose application that

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread News123
Hi Luca, Luca wrote: > Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to > young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use > an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. > > The target of my app are very young kids that might be

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Luca
Diez B. Roggisch wrote: You could use import-hooks for importing your code. There was a python-magazine article a while ago that showed how to use that + a parser to import seamlessly a DSL. I will look into this, right now i don't know what import-hooks are nor if i can use them from embedde

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Diez B. Roggisch
Am 25.02.10 20:27, schrieb Luca: Chris Rebert wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca wrote: Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an embedded Python as underlying language but this rai

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread MRAB
Luca wrote: Chris Rebert wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca wrote: Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. The

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Luca
Chris Rebert wrote: On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca wrote: Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. The target of my a

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Chris Rebert
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca wrote: > Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young > kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an > embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. > > The target of my app are very yo

Re: Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:32 +0100, Luca wrote: > Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to > young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use > an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. > > The target of my app are ver

Renaming identifiers & debugging

2010-02-25 Thread Luca
Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem. The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with english, so