On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 04:33:45 -0800, Eelco wrote:
>> Why do people use pretty when we already have words that carry more
>> specific meaning? Because they are lazy! And laziness begets stupidity.
>
> No, that would be because they are not autistic. Most people like having
> a repertoire of words w
> Why do people use pretty when we already have words that carry more
> specific meaning? Because they are lazy! And laziness begets
> stupidity.
No, that would be because they are not autistic. Most people like
having a repertoire of words with subtly different meanings in their
natural language,
On 1/3/2012 0:27, Rick Johnson wrote:
> Yes, i used the word "work" improperly here. Just another example of
> the corrupting influence of garage verbiage. Thanks for bring this to
> my attention!
"Diction" would be a far better word than "verbiage" there.
Evan
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On 1/2/2012 9:27 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Dec 31 2011, 11:12 pm, Dominic Binks wrote:
I doubt you could validate or invalidate a word. A word is, there is no
... taken off list
--
Dominic Binks: dbi...@codeaurora.org
Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
Qualcomm Innovation Cente
On Dec 31 2011, 11:12 pm, Dominic Binks wrote:
> I doubt you could validate or invalidate a word. A word is, there is no
> validation necessary. You could potentially try to validate it's use
> but again that's not in your power.
Usage begets validation. By using words in a manner that is impr
On 2012-01-01, Alexander Kapps wrote:
> On 01.01.2012 03:36, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2011-12-31, Alexander Kapps wrote:
>>> On 31.12.2011 19:23, Roy Smith wrote:
>>>
>> Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?
>
> http://xkcd.com/386/
>
> ;)
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Dominic Binks wrote:
> While I agree 'right' can be annoying it's usage as in 'you are correct' can
> be traced back to 1588, I think we're going to have to allow for it's usage
> in 2011 (very nearly 2012 for me and definitely 2012 for anyone east of New
> York Cit
On 12/31/2011 1:06 PM, Alexander Kapps wrote:
> xkcd/386 has been the excuse for replying to RR for ages and I still
> don't understand why he gets that much advertence. Charity? Sympathy
> for the lone and broken?
>
> FWIW, it undermines all my attempts to block him. Sigh.
Do what I do: laugh a
On 12/27/2011 6:42 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Dec 27, 8:21 pm, Tim Chase wrote:
I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to"
is perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1]
[...]
May you be found better for learning and come to give others the
benefit o
On 01.01.2012 03:36, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2011-12-31, Alexander Kapps wrote:
On 31.12.2011 19:23, Roy Smith wrote:
Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?
http://xkcd.com/386/
;)
Why ROFLMAO when double-plus funny works just as well?
xkcd/386 has bee
On 2011-12-31, Alexander Kapps wrote:
> On 31.12.2011 19:23, Roy Smith wrote:
>
Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?
>>>
>>> http://xkcd.com/386/
>>>
>>> ;)
>>
>> Why ROFLMAO when double-plus funny works just as well?
>
> xkcd/386 has been the excuse for re
On 31.12.2011 19:23, Roy Smith wrote:
Why do I waste my time reading your pretentious self-important nonsense?
http://xkcd.com/386/
;)
Why ROFLMAO when double-plus funny works just as well?
xkcd/386 has been the excuse for replying to RR for ages and I still
don't understand why he gets
In article ,
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-12-28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:42:05 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote:
> >
> >> I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world"
> >> dictionary. I don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony
> >> baloney group
On 2011-12-28, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:42:05 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote:
>
>> I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world"
>> dictionary. I don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony
>> baloney group of pseudo intellectuals who decided one to day t
On Dec 28, 2:56 am, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Dec 27, 3:44 pm, Eelco wrote:
>
> > Despite the fact that you mis-attributed that quote to me, im going to
> > be a little bit offended in the name of its actual author anyway.
> > Thats a lot of words to waste on your linguistic preferences.
> > Perso
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:42:05 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Dec 27, 8:21 pm, Tim Chase wrote:
>
>> I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to" is
>> perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1] [...]
>> May you be found better for learning and come to g
On Dec 27, 11:26 pm, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 12/27/2011 11:59 AM, K Richard Pixley wrote:> You'd do better to encourage
> eclipse, but setting that up isn't
> > trivial either.
>
> IIRC, all I had to do to set up PyDev was copy a URL to Eclipse's
> "Install New Software" wizard, and have Eclipse
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> I don't care what ANY dictionary says. Much less a "world" dictionary.
> I don't validate or invalidate a word based on some phony baloney
> group of pseudo intellectuals who decided one to day that writing a
> dictionary "might be cool".
Fin
On Dec 27, 8:21 pm, Tim Chase wrote:
> I'm glad you're open to learning more about English as "used to"
> is perfectly acceptable according to the World English Dictionary[1]
> [...]
> May you be found better for learning and come to give others the
> benefit of the doubt.
I don't care what ANY
On 12/27/11 19:56, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Dec 27, 3:44 pm, Eelco
wrote:
Despite the fact that you mis-attributed that quote to me,
im going to be a little bit offended in the name of its
actual author anyway. Thats a lot of words to waste on your
linguistic preferences. Personally, I reserve th
On Dec 27, 7:21 pm, 8 Dihedral
wrote:
> There are Dr.Python, Pycrust and Notepadplus to support writing python
> programs.
I really like Pycrust. It's written in Python, it's code base is
structured in a professional manner (IDLE you should be jealous!), and
it works well. However, it is de
On Dec 27, 3:44 pm, Eelco wrote:
> Despite the fact that you mis-attributed that quote to me, im going to
> be a little bit offended in the name of its actual author anyway.
> Thats a lot of words to waste on your linguistic preferences.
> Personally, I reserve the right to botch my non-native la
There are Dr.Python, Pycrust and Notepadplus to support writing python
programs.
IDLE is OK, but if a program failed inside IDLE, then I might have
to kill the old IDLE and restart IDLE again.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 12/27/2011 4:04 PM, K Richard Pixley wrote:
You still need to match versions of PyDev to versions of Eclipse to
versions of operating system to versions of other eclipse plugins. I
spent a few days trying to get it together once and came to the
conclusion that it was a much bigger effort than
On Dec 27, 9:04 pm, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Dec 27, 1:45 pm, Eelco wrote:
>
> > On Dec 27, 6:53 pm, Lie Ryan wrote:
> > > On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
> > > Before using VIM, I used to use gedit
>
> Eelco, please don't get offended, but can you (and everyone else) stop
> using silly ver
On 12/27/11 10:26 , Andrew Berg wrote:
On 12/27/2011 11:59 AM, K Richard Pixley wrote:
You'd do better to encourage eclipse, but setting that up isn't
trivial either.
IIRC, all I had to do to set up PyDev was copy a URL to Eclipse's
"Install New Software" wizard, and have Eclipse download and i
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Lie Ryan wrote:
> In any case, removing IDLE without a much better replacement is pretty much
> out of the question. If people installed Python in vanilla Windows install,
> they would only have Notepad to edit their code.
No no, Wordpad is much better for editing
On 12/28/2011 05:11 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:50 am, Lie Ryan wrote:
In case you haven't realised it, it is pretty
much impossible for a large open source project to "die"; even if Guido
decided to remove IDLE from the standard library
I don't remember stating that Python would di
On 12/27/11 10:21 , Rick Johnson wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:59 am, K Richard Pixley wrote:
The problem is that IDLE is hard to set up. (I've never managed it and
I'm a well seasoned veteran).
Can you qualify that statement? Do you mean "difficult to set up on
certain OS's"? Because for windows th
On Dec 27, 1:45 pm, Eelco wrote:
> On Dec 27, 6:53 pm, Lie Ryan wrote:
> > On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
> > Before using VIM, I used to use gedit
Eelco, please don't get offended, but can you (and everyone else) stop
using silly verbage like "used to", "use to", "suppose to", "hard"
whe
On Dec 27, 6:53 pm, Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
>
>
>
> > *Your suggestion of VIM is especially objectionable. Though I am sure
> > it is a great tool to you, the subject here is beginner education.
> > Just because it is a good tool for you, does not make it a good tool
On Dec 27, 11:59 am, K Richard Pixley wrote:
> The problem is that IDLE is hard to set up. (I've never managed it and
> I'm a well seasoned veteran).
Can you qualify that statement? Do you mean "difficult to set up on
certain OS's"? Because for windows there is no difficulty.
> And [IDLE is] p
On 12/27/2011 11:59 AM, K Richard Pixley wrote:
You'd do better to encourage eclipse, but setting that up isn't
trivial either.
IIRC, all I had to do to set up PyDev was copy a URL to Eclipse's
"Install New Software" wizard, and have Eclipse download and install it.
Extra steps are needed if a
On Dec 27, 11:50 am, Lie Ryan wrote:
> In case you haven't realised it, it is pretty
> much impossible for a large open source project to "die"; even if Guido
> decided to remove IDLE from the standard library
I don't remember stating that Python would die if IDLE was removed
(not sure if you mis
On 12/19/11 19:51 , Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
If not, what is the tool of choice?
If your goal is to quickly get new users up and running in Python,
what IDE or editor do you recommend?
I would:
a) let the students pick their own editor.
b) encourage ema
On 12/27/2011 10:41 PM, Eelco wrote:
*Your suggestion of VIM is especially objectionable. Though I am sure
it is a great tool to you, the subject here is beginner education.
Just because it is a good tool for you, does not make it a good tool
for a beginner.
Before using VIM, I used to use ged
On 12/28/2011 03:37 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:
My logic is this:
""" Including an IDE in the stdlib may have been a bad idea (although
i understand and support Guido's original vision for IDLE). But since
we do have it, we need to either MAINTAIN the package or REMOVE it. We
cannot just stick our
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Dec 27, 12:14 am, Carl Smith wrote:
> Do people seriously use IDLE? I thought it was just there for
> scratchers, like turtle.
I know for a fact that many folks use IDLE, even some rather "well
known" folks around here. The fact is, more people use IDLE than admit
to using IDLE. Of course, out
On Dec 27, 6:59 am, Carl Smith wrote:
> On Dec 20, 10:58 am, Andrea Crotti wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/20/2011 03:51 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
> > > Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> > > If not, what is the tool of choice?
>
> > > Students may not be experienced with the command
On Dec 25, 5:44 pm, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Dec 19, 9:51 pm, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>
> > Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> > If not, what is the tool of choice?
>
> I believe IDLE has the potential to be a very useful teaching tool and
> even in it's current abysmal state, i find it t
On Dec 20, 10:58 am, Andrea Crotti wrote:
> On 12/20/2011 03:51 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> > If not, what is the tool of choice?
>
> > Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
> > running Windows, Linux, or Mac
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> Why has Guido not, at the very least, contacted me
> privately? He could remain anonymous.
And how would you know if he did contact you anonymously?
As to your demand that one of the "top Pythionistas" [sic] say
something? I declare hereby t
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 06:52:03 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote:
> If Guido would just say something (or at least some of the top
> Pythionistas (Hettinger i am looking at you!)) this community might work
> together to fix this problem.
The sheer cluelessness displayed here about open source is painful.
On Dec 26, 10:11 am, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Rick Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> wrote:
> > On Dec 25, 9:27 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Rick Johnson
> >> > [...]
> >> Conversely, why write an IDE into IDLE when perfectly-good IDEs
>
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> On Dec 25, 9:27 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Rick Johnson
>> > [...]
>> Conversely, why write an IDE into IDLE when perfectly-good IDEs
>> already exist? I don't use IDLE for development per se; it's for
>> in
On Dec 25, 9:27 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Rick Johnson
> > [...]
> Conversely, why write an IDE into IDLE when perfectly-good IDEs
> already exist? I don't use IDLE for development per se; it's for
> interactive Python execution, but not editing of source files.
Not a teacher here, but I'm curious why Komodo Edit never seems to get
any love in the IDE debates... a free version for personal/non-profit
use, pro versions for those that need the extra features, seems to work
fairly well but then again I'm probably not the best judge...
Thanks,
Monte
--
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> Why install an IDE when IDLE is already there? Oh, yes, IDLE SUCKS. I
> know that already. But this revelation begs the question... Why has
> this community allowed IDLE to rot? Why has guido NOT started a public
> discussion on the matter?
C
On Dec 19, 9:51 pm, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> If not, what is the tool of choice?
I believe IDLE has the potential to be a very useful teaching tool and
even in it's current abysmal state, i find it to be quite useful.
> Students may not be experienced wi
On Dec 21, 9:57 pm, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> +1 for IPython/%edit using the simplest editor that supports syntax
> highlighting and line numbers. I have found that
> Exploring/Prototyping in the interpreter has the highest ROI of
> anything I teach people.
>
> Nathan
It seems to me that we are not d
On Dec 21, 9:57 am, Nathan Rice
wrote:
> +1 for IPython/%edit using the simplest editor that supports syntax
> highlighting and line numbers. I have found that
> Exploring/Prototyping in the interpreter has the highest ROI of
> anything I teach people.
Thank you Nathan and all the other responde
+1 for IPython/%edit using the simplest editor that supports syntax
highlighting and line numbers. I have found that
Exploring/Prototyping in the interpreter has the highest ROI of
anything I teach people.
Nathan
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
> As for line numbers, for working alone, I don't see much point. But for
> any kind of interaction with other people, it's essential. It's just SO
> much easier to say, "line 417" as opposed to "OK, scroll up a couple
> more lines, no, no, not t
In article ,
Ashton Fagg wrote:
> As long as the text editor has line numbers and syntax highlighting
> it's sufficient in my book.
I agree with the syntax highlighting. I resisted for many years, then
somebody turned me on to it a few years ago and I've been addicted ever
since.
As for li
On 20 December 2011 13:51, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
> running Windows, Linux, or Macs. Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
> easy to install and configure (startup directory, path, associated
> with a particular version of Python etc
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:51:00 -0800, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Do you use IDLE when teaching Python? If not, what is the tool of
> choice?
I'm obviously biased (I started IPython years ago), but I've done a lot
of teaching and I still do like the combination of IPython plus an
editor. Sometime
I've tried several things. So far vim (with line numbers) to show the code and
then ipython to run it works great.
Another option I tried once was Aptana, since most people in my company know
eclipse this was good for them. It has most (all?) of the features you
mentioned above.
--
http://mail
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:45 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> Heck for most things,
> considering you have at least basic programming experience, the help
> function is all you need to learn the language.
I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but this is more general.
You cannot learn the _language_ from
On Dec 20, 2:14 am, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> For teaching, I think it's better to come around with something simpler
> than a full-blown IDE, so that you can show off interactive development,
> help() and other introspection features. IMHO much better than hiding all
> that behind an IDE,
That is
I taught a Python class just recently, and thought long and hard about
this problem. I settled on PyCharm and was happy with that.
My reasons:
- available on all main platoforms
- not entirely broken code completion (ive tried literally every
python editor, and pycharm is the only one that meet
On 12/20/2011 03:51 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
If not, what is the tool of choice?
Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
running Windows, Linux, or Macs. Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
easy to install and configure (startup di
Devin Jeanpierre, 20.12.2011 08:32:
Truthfully I'm not sure why it's great for teaching, though. And there
were some discussions I overheard about perhaps switching to PyCharm,
which at least one professor thought was much better.
I recently started using PyCharm personally, but not for my cour
My university (University of Toronto) helped design Wing 101, and uses
it exclusively in introductory courses.
Overall, the only major sticking points that I saw (as a TA who helped
with the code labs and setup) were installation issues on OS X
(relating to X11) and some confusion on when the embe
On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 4:51:00 AM UTC+1, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
> If not, what is the tool of choice?
>
> Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
> running Windows, Linux, or Macs. Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
> easy to
Two suggestions:
- Editra (free): Requires a little bit of fiddling around and enabling
Shelf, installing plugins but then it is great
- Recently I was introduced to Sublime Text 2 which has an über
streamlined layout.
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> Do you use IDLE w
Do you use IDLE when teaching Python?
If not, what is the tool of choice?
Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be
running Windows, Linux, or Macs. Ideally, the tool or IDE will be
easy to install and configure (startup directory, path, associated
with a particular version
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