Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-14 Thread Gregory Ewing
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: And since the original COBOL standard numeric format was BCD, PIC not only defined output layout, but also internal storage needed by numerics and string data types. Unless you said USAGE IS COMPUTATIONAL, which left the compiler free to pick a more efficient st

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-14 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram): > struct example > { PIC<5,X<15>> last_name; > PIC<88,VALUE<1,3,5,7,9>> odd_numbers; } > > . The above assumes appropriate definitions for »VALUE« (as a > variadic template) »PIC«, and »X«. Only a C++ expert would be able > to provide thes

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-14 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Gregory Ewing : > Steve D'Aprano wrote: > >> If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it? > > Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although usually > in the guise of an output formatting facility rather than a way of > describing how data is stored internally. For example,

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-14 Thread Gregory Ewing
Ian Kelly wrote: Yikes. I never took the time to learn COBOL, but that almost sounds like something that you'd find in an esoteric language like INTERCAL. COBOL has other fun stuff like that, too. For example, the destination of a GOTO statement can be changed from elsewhere in the program: ht

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-14 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steve D'Aprano wrote: If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it? Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although usually in the guise of an output formatting facility rather than a way of describing how data is stored internally. For example, the PRINT USING found in s

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Rustom Mody
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:03:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > > [Sorry its a vague memory of something I read more than a decade ago that > > [I cant > > trace again] > > Some unknown Cobol programmer talking about Dijkstra: > > > > D

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Steve D'Aprano
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote: >> Meyer's "Considered Harmful Essays Considered Harmful" essay is >> hypocritical junk, and should be considered harmful. > > Your view. Well duh :-) > Here's an alter

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Ian Kelly
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nathan Ernst wrote: > Thank you for that Alan Kay quote. Brightened up my day. Since you also > mentioned COBOL, and this is a thread about "goto", reminded me of the > single most abhorrent thing I ever saw in COBOL (I had to convert a single > COBOL batch proces

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Nathan Ernst
Thank you for that Alan Kay quote. Brightened up my day. Since you also mentioned COBOL, and this is a thread about "goto", reminded me of the single most abhorrent thing I ever saw in COBOL (I had to convert a single COBOL batch process to ASP.Net as an intern back in 2003-4). "MOVE NEXT SENTENCE"

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Larry Martell
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Or consider(!) Alan Kay's statement: "Arrogance in computer science is > measured > in nanodijktras" Completely unrelated but it reminded me about this bon mot about Niklaus Wirth: Europeans tend to pronounce his name properly, as Nih-klaus

Re: Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Rustom Mody
On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > Meyer's "Considered Harmful Essays Considered Harmful" essay is hypocritical > junk, and should be considered harmful. Your view. Here's an alternative. [Sorry its a vague memory of something I read more than a decade ago

Goto Considered Harmful [was Re: Python and the need for speed]

2017-04-13 Thread Steve D'Aprano
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:44 am, Nathan Ernst wrote: > goto is a misunderstood and much misaligned creature. It is a very useful > feature, but like nearly any programming construct can be abused. Indeed. The problem is that it is abused far more often than it is used correctly -- or at least it was