Re: [Info] PEP 308 accepted - new conditional expressions

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:05:12 -0500, Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >GvR's syntax has the advantage of making grammatical sense in English (i.e. >reading it as written pretty much makes sense). I know, let's re-write Python to make it more like COBOL! That's bound to be a winner! -- E

Re: Software bugs aren't inevitable

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:05:04 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: >> Compilers/interpreters/runtimes are black boxes: we don't (or >> shouldn't) care how they do their work as long as they run correctly >> and

Re: Software bugs aren't inevitable

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:36:02 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:07:28 +0100, phil hunt wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:56:06 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >>>Are you

Re: Software bugs aren't inevitable

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:56:06 +1000, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Are you saying that the recursion done by "serious" languages is a fake? >That it is actually implemented behind the scenes by iteration? > >It seems to me that if recursion and iteration produce "the exact same >mach

Re: Create new instance of Python class in C

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:50:26 +0200, Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >djw enlightened us with: >> Personally, I would try Psyco first, and consider Pyrex next. > >Ok, I'll take a look at those. > >> Are you sure your algorithm can't be optimized first, before you >> start trying to write thi

Re: Create new instance of Python class in C

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:19:21 +0200, Sybren Stuvel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi people, > >I'm creating a program that can solve and create Sudoku puzzles. My >creation function needs to make a lot of copies of a puzzle. Why do you need to maske lots of copies? And when you say "lots of" what numb

Re: 'isa' keyword

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:45:19 -0500, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I'm not talking about a change in *paradigm* merely a change in >> *syntax*; this: >> >>receiver selector argument >> >> would mean the same as the current Python: >> >>receiver.selector(argument) >> >Aah, I

Re: 'isa' keyword

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 20:39:14 -0500, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: >> It could be argued of course, that an OOPL should allow methods to >> be sent with a grammar: >> >>receiver selector argument >> >> (which is almost

Re: 'isa' keyword

On 1 Sep 2005 00:52:54 -0700, talin at acm dot org <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >The "isa" operator would of course be overloadable, perhaps by an >accessor functions called __isa__, which works similarly to >__contains__. The potential uses for this are not limited to >isinstance() sugar, however.

Re: Bug in string.find; was: Re: Proposed PEP: New style indexing,was Re: Bug in slice type

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:53:27 GMT, Bryan Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Specifically, to support new-style slicing, a class that > accepts index or slice arguments to any of: > > __getitem__ > __setitem__ > __delitem__ > __getslice__ > __setslice__

Re: global interpreter lock

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:25:55 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Bryan Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> phil hunt wrote: >> > Yes, find solutions. Don't find dangerous dead-ends that look like >> > solutions but which will give you lots

Re: global interpreter lock

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:34:07 GMT, Bryan Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: > > Yes, find solutions. Don't find dangerous dead-ends that look like > > solutions but which will give you lots of trouble. > >If concurrency is a dead end, why do the

Re: global interpreter lock

On 26 Aug 2005 14:35:03 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: >> >Let's see. Reality is that writing correct programs is hard. Writing >> >correct programs that use concurrency is even harder, because of the

Re: global interpreter lock

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:56:10 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The issue here is whether to confuse reality with what one might >> wish reality to be. > >Let's see. Reality is that writing correct programs is hard. Writing >correct programs that use concurrency is even harder, because

Re: last line chopped from input file

On 20 Aug 2005 22:53:42 -0700, Eric Lavigne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Here is a shell command (MS-DOS): > debug\curve-fit output.txt > >And here is a Python script that *should* do the same thing (and almost >does): > > import os > > inputfilename = 'input.txt' > outputfilename = 'output.txt'

Re: SOAP and XMLRPC

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:04:55 +0200, Magnus Lycka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >dcrespo wrote: >> Hi to all... >> Someone knows if is there possible to have a Python SOAP or XMLRPC >> server that works with VB? I would like you to include the examples >> clients and server programs. > >If you can writ

Re: GUI tookit for science and education

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:59:29 +0200, Mateusz £oskot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi, > >I'd like to ask some scientists or students >which GUI toolkit they would recommend >to develop scientific prototypes (for education and >testing some theories). >I think such toolkit should fill a bit different >

Re: What is Python?!

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:51:45 +1200, Evil Bastard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I guess a language could be called a 'scripting language' if: > - the source code can be executed directly, and/or > - source need not be converted to a separate file in a > non-human-readable format before it can be e

Re: "Compile time" checking?

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 02:35:40 GMT, Bengt Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:39:03 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) wrote: >[...] >> >>I've not personally had problems with the wrong number of argumnets >>to a function call -- they

Re: "Compile time" checking?

On 10 Aug 2005 18:32:54 -0700, Qopit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> if debug: print "v=%s" % (v,) > >Not that important, but I assume the first one was supposed to be: > > if debug: print "v=", s > >right? No, I'm trying to print (v) not (s). -- Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk -- http

Re: Python supports LSP, does it?

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:36:56 -0500, Andy Leszczynski wrote: >wikipedia >(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_programming_language#Object-oriented_programming) > >says: >""" >Python's support for object oriented programming paradigm is vast. It >supports polymorphism [...] fully in the Liskov s

Re: "Compile time" checking?

On 10 Aug 2005 12:01:01 -0700, Qopit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Why not just find out, by trying to compile it? :-) > >This will likely certify me as a python newbie, but... how do you mean? > How do you compile a .py file? At the command prompt: $ python yourfile.py This compiles it, then ru

Re: "Compile time" checking?

On 10 Aug 2005 08:53:15 -0700, Qopit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi there, > >I'm pretty new to Python and am trying to figure out how to get "will >this code compile?"-like code checking. Why not just find out, by trying to compile it? :-) -- Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk -- http://m

Re: What is Python?!

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:14:26 +0200, Robert Wierschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >hi > >I'm learning python since 3 days. I' ve some programming experience in >BASIC, Pascal, C, C++ and Java. Actually I want to add a scripting >language to this repertoire (I have virtually no experience with >scr

Re: Why is this?

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:40:54 +0200, Jiri Barton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I have a problem with initialization. a, b = [[]]*2 a.append(1) b >[1] > >Why is this? Why does not this behave like the below: > a, b = [[], []] a.append(1) b >[] In your 1st

Re: PEP: Specialization Syntax

On 8 Aug 2005 02:26:40 -0700, Kay Schluehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I have to admit that i don't actually understand what you want? Me neither. I don't see the point of this. -- Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 16:57:34 +0100, Michael Sparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Is the audience programmers or >> less technical people? A project that allows non-technical people >> to build complex network applications is an ambitious one, but not >> impossible (I'd find it very impressive and

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 16:57:34 +0100, Michael Sparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I've reordered the q's slightly to avoid repetition... Also by answering >this question first, it may put the rest of the answer into context >better. > >phil hunt wrote: > >> At

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

On 03 Aug 2005 17:30:31 +0400, Sergei Organov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: >[...] >> Unix pipelines act on ascii files; > >No, they don't. Nitpicker. I would have thought it was perfectly obvious, in context, what I meant. --

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:51:49 -0400, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: >> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:26:28 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>>According to the "extreme programming" paradigm, testin

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:18:51 -0400, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >If you're going to quote XP rules of thumb, the tests should be >independent and very fast, and if you have a setup code that is taking a >long time, it's likely a "code smell" of some kind, and you should be >fixing

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:19:05 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >rafi wrote: >> 'should' may be too strong, 'may' may be better. In the meantime I found: >> http://python-mock.sourceforge.net/ > >Thanks for the link. Björn also pointed to http://pmock.sourceforge.net > >Usin

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:44:01 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >In August 2001, there was a thread about the "Art of Unit Testing": >http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/aa2bd17e7f995d05/71a29faf0a0485d5 > >Paul Moore asked the legitimate question w

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:53:29 +0100, Tim Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[Michael Sparks] >| Phil Hunt wrote: >| >| > Kamaelia seems it might be an interesting project. However, I don't >| > think the project is well served by this announcement -- which I >|

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:35:08 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Some (many?) people don't like the unittest module, because it is not very >> pythonic - nothing to wonder as it has its root in the Java world. That's >> probably one of the reasons why there are other (more p

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:05:16 +0100, Michael Sparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Phil Hunt wrote: > >> Kamaelia seems it might be an interesting project. However, I don't >> think the project is well served by this announcement -- which I >> find vague and h

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:13:08 +0200, rafi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> According to the "extreme programming" paradigm, testing should be done >> several times a day. So a requirement for extreme programm is that tests >> are fast enough. If the testing needs too much time, people are >> disco

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:26:28 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Björn Lindström wrote: >>>Would it make sense to add "globaleSetup" and "globalTearDown" methods >>>to the TestCase class? >> In general that's not such a good idea. > >I completely agree and I think it makes a lot

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:02:09 +0200, Björn Lindström <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Would it make sense to add "globaleSetup" and "globalTearDown" methods >> to the TestCase class? I think at least it would not harm >> anybody. Where should such prop

Re: Art of Unit Testing

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:11:52 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Thanks for the link, Grig. I wasn't aware of the py lib so far. The >possibility to create fixtures at the three different scopes is exactly >what I was looking for. > >Anyway, I think it would be nice to have th

Re: Is this Pythonic?

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:31:27 GMT, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: > >> Suppose I'm writing an abstract superclass which will have some >> concrete subclasses. I want to signal in my code that the subclasses >>

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:42:53 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: >> In practise any Python GUI is going to contain code from otyher >> languages since if it was coded all the way down in python it would >> be too slow. &g

Re: ANN: Kamaelia 0.2.0 released!

Kamaelia seems it might be an interesting project. However, I don't think the project is well served by this announcement -- which I find vague and hard to understand. Which is a shame, because it means that other people probably don't understand it very well either, which means less people wil

Re: Is this Pythonic?

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:07:46 -0700, Erik Max Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Yes, but raise NotImplementedError instead of Exception. Another trick >you can use is to prevent people from instantiating the abstract class: > > class Foo: > def __init__(self): > i

Re: Is this Pythonic?

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 22:01:06 +0200, Caleb Hattingh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Peter > >To my mind, this kind of setup (interface class, or abstact class) is more >usually used in static languages to benefit polymorphism - but python is >dynamically typed, so in which situations would this setu

Re: Is this Pythonic?

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:52:02 -0400, Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: >> Suppose I'm writing an abstract superclass which will have some >> concrete subclasses. I want to signal in my code that the subclasses >> will implement certan me

Is this Pythonic?

Suppose I'm writing an abstract superclass which will have some concrete subclasses. I want to signal in my code that the subclasses will implement certan methods. Is this a Pythonic way of doing what I have in mind: class Foo: # abstract superclass def bar(self): raise Exception, "Im

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:09:48 -0700, Cliff Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 10:07 -0700, Kay Schluehr wrote: > >> Some other people already abandoned Python not for the worst reasons: >> >> http://www.kevin-walzer.com/pivot/entry.php?id=69 > >Being a developer requires not on

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:52:58 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Hallöchen! >> Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Calvin Spealman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The choice is GUI to

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On 31 Jul 2005 10:07:52 -0700, Kay Schluehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Ed Leafe wrote: >> On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:02, phil hunt wrote: >> >> > You mightn't have, but I suspect more Python programers who've >> > written GUI apps have used Tk

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:02:43 -0400, Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Sunday 31 July 2005 01:02, phil hunt wrote: > >> You mightn't have, but I suspect more Python programers who've >> written GUI apps have used Tkinter than any of the other APIs. >>

Re: [path-PEP] Path inherits from basestring again

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:48:45 +0200, Reinhold Birkenfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> An improvement to what? To how the class is implemented, or to how >> it is used? > >No, the second function is cleaner and more readable than the first, >IMHO. True, but the first function, at all of seven

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 02:23:39 -0700, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: > >> OK, hows this for an idea: >> >> 1. create a new API, loosely based on the Tkinter API, but more >> Pythonic >> >> 2. implement Tk using this API (pr

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:22:23 +0200, Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> What you say Pythonic, what do you mean? And how do you rate >> Tkinter, PyGtk, PyQt/PyKDE, wxWindows for "Pythonicness"? > >I don't like to set arguments to -1 or NULL, but to None. Fair enough >I'd like >to

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On 31 Jul 2005 00:23:38 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: >> What you say Pythonic, what do you mean? And how do you rate >> Tkinter, PyGtk, PyQt/PyKDE, wxWindows for "Pythonicness"? > >Tkinter is not

Re: shelve: writing out updates?!

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:57:17 -0700, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Paul Rubin wrote: >> Shelve uses dbm and pickle to make a persistent object store. The >> "db" in "dbm" stands for "database" and while I didn't expect full >> ACID capability, I'd have thought there'd be at least some min

Re: shelve: writing out updates?!

On 30 Jul 2005 17:48:39 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote: >Shelve uses dbm and pickle to make a persistent object store. The >"db" in "dbm" stands for "database" and while I didn't expect full >ACID capability, What is ACID? > I'd have thought there'd be at least some minimum >

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:51:13 +0200, Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hallöchen! > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes: > >> [...] >> >> How about sometihing with the same API as Tkinter (so no need to >> relearn), but which looks prettier

Re: [path-PEP] Path inherits from basestring again

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:01:49 +0200, Reinhold Birkenfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: > >> def normalizePath(p, *pathParts): >>""" Normalize a file path, by expanding the user name and getting >>the absolute path.. >>

Re: [path-PEP] Path inherits from basestring again

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:48:55 +1200, Tony Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Would you really choose this: > >p = Path() / "build" / "a" / "very" / "very" / "long" / "path" > >Over this: > >p = Path(os.path.join("build", "a", "very", "very", "long", "path")) Or have the constructor accept

Re: [path-PEP] Path inherits from basestring again

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:38:23 +1200, Tony Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> def functions_which_modifies_some_file_in_place(path): >> output = open(path+'.tmp', 'w') >> . >> >> I dont want a seperator inserted between path and the new extension. > >Fair enough. Forget using '+' for join, t

Re: Wheel-reinvention with Python

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:54:59 +0200, Torsten Bronger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hallöchen! > >Calvin Spealman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> The choice is GUI toolkits is largely seperate from >> Python. Consider that they are just bindings to libraries that are >> developed completely seperate o

Re: How can I run a program?

On 30 Jul 2005 03:33:14 -0700, Lad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hello, >I am running Python on XP and have a problem with >a program if its name consists '-' for example: >my-program.py >When I try to run a program with such name >I get the error : > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "",

Re: functions without parentheses

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:37:52 GMT, Bengt Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I suggested in a previous thread that one could support such a syntax by >supporting an invisible binary operator between two expressions, That's a truely appalling idea. >so that >examine "string" translates to examin

Re: Generating images with text in them

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:44:03 -0500, Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Wednesday 20 July 2005 11:59 pm, phil hunt wrote: >> I am trying to generate some images (gifs or pngs) with text in >> them. I can use the Python Imaging Library, but it only has access >

Re: Generating images with text in them

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:23:46 +0100, Daren Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >phil hunt wrote: >> I am trying to generate some images (gifs or pngs) with text in >> them. I can use the Python Imaging Library, but it only has access >> to the default, rather crappy, fon

Generating images with text in them

I am trying to generate some images (gifs or pngs) with text in them. I can use the Python Imaging Library, but it only has access to the default, rather crappy, font. Ideally I'd like to use one of the nicer fonts that come with my X Windows installation. Using Tkinter I can draw these fonts