On Aug 23, 3:38 am, Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In comp.lang.lisp Bikal KC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I used usenet years ago then stopped for couple of years. I remember
> > seeing him/her on c.l.perl I believe doing the same thing he/she is
> > doing atm. I'd say the ultima
On Aug 21, 8:52 am, kaldrenon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Aug 20, 8:54 pm, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > If the message then
> > says something absurd, like "this is a newsgroup about Python" when
> > I'm reading it in cljp, well, w
On Aug 20, 8:05 am, Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> > On Aug 19, 2:41 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> This is a newsgroup of programming language Python, stop with this!
>
> > Python?! Python is as off-topic here as guitars, unlike, say, Ja
On Aug 19, 2:41 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is a newsgroup of programming language Python, stop with this!
Python?! Python is as off-topic here as guitars, unlike, say, Java...
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Aug 19, 4:12 pm, Daniel Pitts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't you know that targeted advertising has far better return?
Only when each impression is fairly expensive to cause. Unfortunately,
spam (whether usenet, guestbook, blog comment, email, or whatever) is
very cheap per impression, so t
On Aug 19, 7:56 pm, Xah Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, when you "dress up formally" to attend your friend's wedding...
Oh dear God, please *don't* remind me.
> "Under the spell of Leibniz's dream" (2000) By Edsger W
> Dijkstrahttp://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/ewd12xx/EWD1298.PDF
A link to a c
On Jul 12, 7:10 pm, Miles Bader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I won't dignify your insulting twaddle and random ad-hominem verbiage
> > with any more responses after this one. Something with actual logical
> > argumenta
On Jul 8, 12:18 pm, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> uh, I think the point here is that some think it might be an idea to
> force *their* idea of the ideal interface upon others, refusing to
> understand that people might have their own preferences.
I, for one, have a strong preference for
On Jul 8, 4:28 am, Adriano Varoli Piazza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> b) If you do want to keep an antediluvian copy of emacs -probably
> versioned in the negative numbers, for all you've said- please do. Do
> be so kind as to send a copy, since it might be quite valuable as an
> antique.
Judging
On Jul 7, 6:12 pm, Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> Edward Dodge wrote:
> >> So -- what magical computer app illuminates the entire room and shows
> >> you how to use everything at the flip of a switch? This brilliant
> >> discovery wou
On Jul 7, 4:26 pm, Edward Dodge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So -- what magical computer app illuminates the entire room and shows
> you how to use everything at the flip of a switch? This brilliant
> discovery would put Sam's, O'Reilly, the for-Dummies series, and
> virtually every other computer
On Jun 27, 8:26 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timofei Shatrov) wrote:
> >For which you need an interpreter. Such as Ghostscript. Which is a
> >pain to install and a bigger one to configure, even on Windoze.
>
> Lie. Ghostscript works out of the box on Windows.
You're joking. First of all I am not a liar,
On Jun 27, 4:18 am, Gian Uberto Lauri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
[A very long, rambling, semi-coherent post]
> Strange. I am *NOT* a native english speaker and I think my Q.I. tends
> toward average from below...
That much is obvious.
> ...but refcard sound very useful to me, maybe is short for
On Jun 26, 6:17 am, Gian Uberto Lauri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Children pick up other language without any conscious effort because
> either they learn it by using with parents, relatives and friends or
> they are involved in a game-like style of learning.
Actually, it's proven that there'
On Jun 26, 6:06 am, Gian Uberto Lauri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >> > HOW IN THE BLOODY HELL IS IT SUPPOSED TO OCCUR TO SOMEONE TO
> >> ENTER > THEM, GIVEN THAT THEY HAVE TO DO SO TO REACH THE HELP THAT
> >> WOULD TELL > THEM THOSE ARE THE KEYS TO REACH THE HELP?!
>
> >> What's your problem ?
>
>
On Jun 26, 10:37 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...and of course, in addition you have access to history so you can
> easily find previous parameters and edit them. this makes it very
> efficient when you need to fiddle about in deep directory trees in a
> way no GUI can yet offer.
>
On Jun 26, 10:52 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> |
> | Agreed. Stallman got sidetracked by Scheme, which IMHO was a
> | dead-end.
>
> too many people buying SICP and believing what they heard about it
> being an important book. I too spent some time
On Jun 25, 2:28 pm, Giorgos Keramidas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > This is the lowly Notepad, which I'll freely admit is the rusty
> > bicycle of text editors, and it's much easier to use (including the
> > help) than the supposed Mercedes-Benz of editors.
>
> Isn't this always the case? The 'in
On Jun 25, 2:32 pm, Giorgos Keramidas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > So much for the "free" in "free software". If you can't actually use
> > it without paying money, whether for the software or for some book, it
> > isn't really free, is it?
>
> Please do not confuse the term 'free' in 'free softw
On Jun 26, 2:01 am, Adriano Varoli Piazza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> > With the latest stuff like Ubuntu, you're pretty much right ... until
> > something goes wrong. Windows has .
> [...]
> > Linux has ... the
> > command line, or w
On Jun 25, 5:32 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To me it's similar to "memorizing" a phone number by dialing
> it enough times that it makes its way into memory without
> conscious effort. I suspect that not everyone's brain works
> this way, and some people have to look it up e
On Jun 25, 5:20 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Jun 23, 10:36 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
>
> [ snip ]
>
> > *
On Jun 25, 8:40 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> > The manuals came with the computers, at no additional charge. It was a
> > different time. This isn't going to be true of any separately-
> > purchased book or user-made prin
On Jun 24, 7:19 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Of course, if emacs let you keep THREE windows open and visible at the
> > same time, instead of being limited to one or a horizontally split two
> > ... and
On Jun 24, 6:52 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Really? None of [navigating a folder window analogue] happens if
> > you just do the straightforward file-open command, which should
> > obviously at least provide a navigable directory tree, but
> > definitely does not.
>
> The first do
On Jun 24, 8:10 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Actually, what I prefer in (2D and 3D) visual design apps is the
> > ability to snap to some kind of grid/existing vertices, and to zoom in
> > close. Then small imprecisions in mouse movement can be rendered
> > unimportant.
>
> Th
On Jun 23, 11:56 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> |
> | That sort of negative-sum thinking is alien to me. Software being easy
> | for beginners to get started using does not in and of itself detract
> | from its value to expe
On Jun 23, 8:35 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > For an example of the latter, consider opening a file. Can't remember
> > the exact spelling and capitalization of the file name? Sorry, bud,
> > you
On Jun 23, 2:04 am, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Of course, emacs doesn't take years of mastery. It takes 30, 40
> minutes.
I gave it twice that, and it failed to grow on me in that amount of
time.
> > Besides, ANY interface that involves fumbling around in the dark
> > trying to find
On Jun 23, 10:36 am, Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> However, there's a case he missed, probably through never using a CAD
> system. All the good ones can be driven either by mouse, or by
> non-chorded key sequences or any combo the user likes. The essence of
> CAD is very accurate poi
On Jun 22, 11:52 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Martin Gregorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> |
> | Yep, and the same people think a command line is to be avoided at all
> | costs. "I mean, its so /last century/ and you can't do anything useful
> | with it anyway".
I think a command line c
On Jun 21, 11:11 am, Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joel J. Adamson wrote:
> > My point is that I'm the sort of person that has a mind set up for
> > Emacs. I had none of the difficulties that someone else might have,
> > who's used to other kinds of software.
>
> > However, I'll also point out
On Jun 21, 10:52 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> |
> | Being beginner-friendly doesn't have to be at the expense of power or
> | expert-user usability.
>
> depends on your definition of "expert". :-)
Well,
On Jun 21, 12:03 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Emacs is amazingly beginner-friendly for the power and flexibility it
> >> provides. [snip]
>
> > That's a joke, right? I tried it a time o
On Jun 21, 11:06 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joel J. Adamson) wrote:
> And it's baloney! No one in my office that uses one of these supposedly
> user-friendly machines thinks that it's actually easy to use. They
> slam their keyboards and throw their hands up *every* day.
Because of bugs or the netwo
On Jun 21, 12:09 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> > I have that exact URL now --
> >> >http://www.asktog.com/columns/027InterfacesThatKill.html
>
> >> Utterly unrelated to Emacs.
>
>
On Jun 21, 12:11 pm, Robert Uhl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> But Emacs does not have a "clunky" interface.
>
> > That's for the everyday novice-to-intermediate user to decide.
>
> Why should the
On Jun 20, 5:37 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...spewing...babbling...
I won't dignify your insulting twaddle and random ad-hominem verbiage
with any more responses after this one. Something with actual logical
argumentation to rebut may be another matter of course.
One more GG i
On Jun 20, 5:35 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But Emacs does not have a "clunky" interface.
That's for the everyday novice-to-intermediate user to decide. Your
gnu.org email address (and attitude) clearly marks you as not a normal
user, and so your opinion doesn't count.
--
htt
On Jun 20, 5:22 pm, Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> > That's a joke, right? I tried it a time or two. Every time it was
> > rapidly apparent that doing anything non-trivial would require
> > consulting a cheat sheet. The printed-out k
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Jun 20, 4:49 pm, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Jun 20, 4:35 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Twisted <
On Jun 20, 5:03 pm, Kaldrenon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I still have a good deal to learn, even of the basics, but I've toyed
> with it casually for a little bit (a total of two hours at most, but
> almost certainly less) and I already know enough that finding out how
> to do anything else IS tr
On Jun 20, 4:49 pm, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 20, 4:35 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I continue to suspect that there's an ulterior motive for making and
> > > kee
On Jun 20, 4:21 pm, BartlebyScrivener <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 17, 10:13 am, Xah Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [this post is a excerpt from
> > The Modernization of Emacs
> >
> > SIMPLE CHANGES
>
> At the command line, change "emacs" to "gv
On Jun 20, 4:35 pm, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On the other hand, being actively beginner-hostile leads to nobody
> > adopting the tool. Then again, if you don't mind being the last
> > generation that&#x
On Jun 20, 9:09 am, Kaldrenon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Imagine that a man invents a vehicle that's far safer and more
> maneuverable than any existing vehicle. Imagine that the increased
> safety comes from the fact that it has five wheels. How incredibly
> stupid would it be for that inventor
On Jun 20, 8:52 am, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I found Emacs to be user friendly, but in a different sense than the,
> IMHO faulty definition, "beginner friendly". Emacs let me, as a user,
> do more with less effort and provides a lot less friction than many
> other developer tools I
On Jun 20, 12:39 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joel J. Adamson) wrote:
> The point is that the responsibility to customize is on the user.
Given that in its out-of-the-box configuration it's well-nigh unusable
without a printed-out "cheat sheet" of some kind, of the sort that
were supposed to have died o
On Jun 20, 1:59 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 19, 9:21 pm, Ed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Have you ever seen an, "Extractmethod," function for emacs? Whereby
> > you highlight some lines of code, press a key, and the code is whisked
> > into its ownmethod, with th
On Jun 17, 11:13 am, Xah Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
Whoa. Xah posted something I agree with wholeheartedly. Imagine that.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Jun 11, 8:57 pm, Patricia Shanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wrote a Perl script to process logic analyzer traces for some hardware
> engineers. While I was out of the office, they found they needed to
> process a new record type. They didn't want to delay their work until I
> got back, and
On Jun 11, 5:36 pm, Tim Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think it's just obvious that this is the case. What would *stop*
> you writing maintainable Perl?
For starters, the fact that there are about six zillion obscure
operators represented by punctuation marks, instead of a dozen or so.
M
On Jun 11, 2:42 am, Joachim Durchholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is possible to write maintainable Perl.
Interesting (spoken in the tone of someone hearing about a purported
sighting of Bigfoot, or maybe a UFO).
Still, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (And no, a
fuzzy pic
On Jun 10, 8:50 pm, "BCB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wholeheartedly agree, and did not mean to imply as much in my original
> post, in which my intent was to emphasize the fact that, until you learn the
> language, a J program /does/ resemble line noise! :-)
Eh. This isn't right. The whole dis
On Jun 9, 8:21 pm, "BCB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Paul McGuire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > On Jun 9, 6:49 am, Lew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > In particular, Perl code looks more like line
> >> > noise than like code from any known programming la
On Jun 8, 7:30 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> [nothing relevant to Perl]
Perl?? Perl is even less relevant to Java than the original post,
which admittedly has some connection to pretty much all programming
languages. (Perl, on the other hand, has no c
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