RE: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Marius Gologan
Grant, Postfix speak for its authors. I'm grateful for it, like many others in IT tech and business fields. Since I'm not so experienced in TLS, maybe my answer is more close to your level: 1) Have in mind that SMTP client servers are not web browsers, thus, they don't act the same. 2) Removing

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
grantksupp...@operamail.com: > Viktor, > > > Your server is fine. Google is using RC4 outbound, and it is their > > responsibility to improve that, not yours. > > Thanks, for the pointers. That's cleared up & understood now. > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 01:35 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: > > Inste

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread grantksupport
Viktor, > Your server is fine. Google is using RC4 outbound, and it is their > responsibility to improve that, not yours. Thanks, for the pointers. That's cleared up & understood now. On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 01:35 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: > Instead of tinkering with carefully-chosen Postfix d

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
grantksupp...@operamail.com: > > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > I repeat, these aren't the droids you're looking for. > > ok, no longer looking for those droids. > > returning to why I started looking for them in the 1st place, trying to > understand/control the

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 01:13:35PM -0700, grantksupp...@operamail.com wrote: > looking at headers of mail sent FROM my my postfix server TO my gmail > account > > Received: from mx.grantkX.com (mx.grantkX.com. > [##.##.##.##]) > by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id >

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread grantksupport
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > I repeat, these aren't the droids you're looking for. ok, no longer looking for those droids. returning to why I started looking for them in the 1st place, trying to understand/control the strength of encryption to/from my server, maki

Re: New "pipeline:" lookup table

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
Wietse Venema: > In that case the syntax would be: > > cache:!memcache:/etc/postfix/whatever!0:pipeline: > > There should be a "source" feature in the memcache client that is > like a read-only version of "backup". Then, one could say: > > /etc/postfix/main.cf: > whatever = ... memca

Re: Postfix uses IPv6 for mails to googlemail.com, but IPv4 for gmail.com

2014-06-21 Thread Nils Steinger
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 03:06:53PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote: > Recent Postfix SMTP clients randomly select between IPv4 and IPv6 > so that mail won't get stuck when one of the two is down. I had another look at the logs and as it turns out, that's exactly what happens — I just happened to get th

Re: Postfix uses IPv6 for mails to googlemail.com, but IPv4 for gmail.com

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
Nils Steinger: > Hi, > > my (dual-stack IPv4/6) mail server consistently delivers mails to > @googlemail.com recipients via IPv6, but falls back to IPv4 for Recent Postfix SMTP clients randomly select between IPv4 and IPv6 so that mail won't get stuck when one of the two is down. Perhaps you hav

Postfix uses IPv6 for mails to googlemail.com, but IPv4 for gmail.com

2014-06-21 Thread Nils Steinger
Hi, my (dual-stack IPv4/6) mail server consistently delivers mails to @googlemail.com recipients via IPv6, but falls back to IPv4 for @gmail.com — even though it uses the same relay hostname (gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com) in both cases. What could possibly cause this behavior? I've attached a singl

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 10:49:17AM -0700, grantksupp...@operamail.com wrote: > > See also: > > > > http://www.postfix.org/FORWARD_SECRECY_README.html > > Right. That's one of the specific documents I'd already referenced as > having read in my OP. It's thorough, and to me, confusing. Whic

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread grantksupport
hi On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > The *default* Postfix TLS cipherlist settings are chosen with care. > Best pracice is to leave them as-is. > > See also: > > http://www.postfix.org/FORWARD_SECRECY_README.html Right. That's one of the specific documents I'd alr

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 10:26:41AM -0700, grantksupp...@operamail.com wrote: > I think I see the variety of options, and understand some of the > pitfalls, as discussed, but TBH am a bit lost as to what the 'best > practices' *recommendation* for the cipher list to use is? specifically > for a PFS

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread grantksupport
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > During a security audit, it was determined that the MX supported what > > the auditors called "weak" ciphers and protocols (SSLv3, TLSv1.0, > > RC4-MD5, anonymous ciphers and so on). The auditors demanded that we > > disable all those -

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 01:11:04PM +0200, Stefan Foerster wrote: > During a security audit, it was determined that the MX supported what > the auditors called "weak" ciphers and protocols (SSLv3, TLSv1.0, > RC4-MD5, anonymous ciphers and so on). The auditors demanded that we > disable all those -

Re: implementing per recipient size limit

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
Jose Borges Ferreira: > Due to the limitation of not have the full recipient list in policy > daemon ate OEM stage, a milter would be the best tool to achieve this. Each recipient can be reported with the Milter RCPT event handler. This combined with the queue ID, allows the Milter to maintain a c

Re: New "pipeline:" lookup table

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
Jose Borges Ferreira: > > Why not implement a cache: maptype that you can prepend to the > > source (a pipeline any simple lookup table): > > > > cache:!maptype:mapname!ttl!pipeline... > > > > where maptype:mapname implements persistent storage. This searches > > the persistent storage first, and i

Re: implementing per recipient size limit

2014-06-21 Thread Jose Borges Ferreira
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:36 AM, mailing lists wrote: > Hello all > > I'm trying to limit big mails to local lists using postfix+postfwd but I must > be missing something because it seems too complex to me. > > Mail size is available in END-OF-MESSAGE (E-O-M) so I do size checks in this > phase

Re: New "pipeline:" lookup table

2014-06-21 Thread Jose Borges Ferreira
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: > Jose Borges Ferreira: >> Can you consider a similar behavior to allow caching. >> Something like: >> >> if ( value = get_table1 () ) { >> return value >> } else { >> value = get_table2(); >> set_table1(value,ttl); >> return

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Martin Vegter
> On 06/21/2014 01:11 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote: > > our current situation is as follows: > > 1. Public MX, very low incoming volume, "smtpd_tls_security_level = may" > 2. Senders aren't known beforehand, i.e. no previous business relationship. > 3. Senders' IT usually doesn't support DANE. > 4. I

Re: New "pipeline:" lookup table

2014-06-21 Thread Wietse Venema
Jose Borges Ferreira: > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: > > Each "pipeline:" query is given to the first table. Each table > > lookup result becomes the query for the next table in the pipeline, > > and the last table produces the final result. When any table lookup > > pro

Re: New "pipeline:" lookup table

2014-06-21 Thread Jose Borges Ferreira
On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: > Each "pipeline:" query is given to the first table. Each table > lookup result becomes the query for the next table in the pipeline, > and the last table produces the final result. When any table lookup > produces no result, the entire pipe

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Jose Borges Ferreira
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Stefan Foerster wrote: > While I certainly share your view on this - though I would have worded > it less strongly - my question still stands: Does anyone have real world > data to share (e.g. "we disabled ciphers X, Y and Z and then N percent > of clients failed

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Jose Borges Ferreira
On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 12:21 PM, li...@rhsoft.net wrote: > > > Am 21.06.2014 13:11, schrieb Stefan Foerster: >> our current situation is as follows: >> >> 1. Public MX, very low incoming volume, "smtpd_tls_security_level = may" >> 2. Senders aren't known beforehand, i.e. no previous business rela

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Stefan Foerster
* "li...@rhsoft.net" : > Am 21.06.2014 13:11, schrieb Stefan Foerster: > > Could someone share experience with or point me to some kind of "best > > practices" regarding opportunistic TLS, or explain the reasoning for > > banning "weak" ciphers/protocols on a public MX? (again, not talking > > abou

Re: Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread li...@rhsoft.net
Am 21.06.2014 13:11, schrieb Stefan Foerster: > our current situation is as follows: > > 1. Public MX, very low incoming volume, "smtpd_tls_security_level = may" > 2. Senders aren't known beforehand, i.e. no previous business relationship. > 3. Senders' IT usually doesn't support DANE. > 4. Inco

Opportunistic TLS vs. plain

2014-06-21 Thread Stefan Foerster
Hello world, our current situation is as follows: 1. Public MX, very low incoming volume, "smtpd_tls_security_level = may" 2. Senders aren't known beforehand, i.e. no previous business relationship. 3. Senders' IT usually doesn't support DANE. 4. Incoming mail is considered highly(!) valuable to