Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-06 Thread Andrew Glynn
: Dimitris Chloupis Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 5:29 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument all people like popular choices, including engineers. Engineers may be more careful but they are not known exactly for their talent to innovate.  We are

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-06 Thread Hans N Beck
>> >> >> I’d rather be an engineer than a popularity contestant or a fashion victim. >> >> >> >> In any case, more often than not it’s management that chooses technologies, >> generally based on who they have lunch with more than anything else. &g

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-06 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
generally based on who they have lunch with more than > anything else. > > > > Andrew > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *Dimitris Chloupis > *Sent: *Monday, November 6,

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-06 Thread Andrew Glynn
t: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Another way of promoting Pharo is copying its advantages to other languages. The ideal way is for people to get straight to Pharo and fall in love with it. But sometimes this may be possible for several reasons. The most usual being that people simple are not i

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-05 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
Another way of promoting Pharo is copying its advantages to other languages. The ideal way is for people to get straight to Pharo and fall in love with it. But sometimes this may be possible for several reasons. The most usual being that people simple are not in the mood of learning a new language

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-05 Thread jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
Phil, Am 26.10.17 um 08:17 schrieb p...@highoctane.be: Now we miss the boat on mobile and bigdata, but this is solvable. You know, "It's solvable, and it's even easy in Smalltalk" has been what we've been shouting down at those worms in the C++/Java swamp for decades. We just never really

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-11-05 Thread jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
Peter, our mail provider decided to move all of the pharo mailing list messages to the spam folder, so I haven't seen many messages in the last days. I was already starting to wonder why nobody ever answered my posts ;-) Your smalltalk express idea sounds interesting. I look forward to trying

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-31 Thread Hans
Hi all, an argument for Smalltalk, an discussion coming up many times in my history. It is also something I'm asking myself from time to time. It is very actual in the moment. Many good arguments were mentioned this discussion. I want to provide you my 2 cents on this. First, I'm taking the vi

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-31 Thread Hans
Hi all, an argument for Smalltalk, an discussion coming up many times in my history. It is also something I'm asking myself from time to time. It is very actual in the moment. Many good arguments were mentioned this discussion. I want to provide you my 2 cents on this. First, I'm taking the vi

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Read the User Manual [1] to install it and learn the basics of its workings. Once you have created your first document or hit the first bump, ask on this list. I will be around ;-). [1] http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/Books/Manual/manual.pdf Cheers, Offray On 29/10/1

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread henry
Interesting. Very. Thank you. - HH On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 17:17, p...@highoctane.be <[p...@highoctane.be]("mailto:p...@highoctane.be";)> wrote: > Pharo can read Avro when this will be UFFI'ed > > [https://avro.apache.org/docs/1.7.3/api/c/index.html]("https://avro.apache.org/docs/1.7.3/api/c/i

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread henry
How could I get started documenting my components with Grafoscopio? I am interested in learning. I just got ASN.1 lengths right, in Java. I am looking to Pharo and Java with an encrypted connection between them. - HH On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 16:59, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[offray.l...@m

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread p...@highoctane.be
Pharo can read Avro when this will be UFFI'ed https://avro.apache.org/docs/1.7.3/api/c/index.html But that is eminently doable. Phiil On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 7:13 PM, henry wrote: > I have heard this summarized by the term: "build it and they will come". I > think the data visualization aspec

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Well is more "build and they will come, if you build also a community who will come", which is hard, but data storytelling and visualization as filed and dynamic moldable tools give us a advantage point to tackle such hard problems. Cheers, Offray On 29/10/17 13:13, henry wrote: > I have heard

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread henry
I have heard this summarized by the term: "build it and they will come". I think the data visualization aspect is where Pharo entering BigData space could really payoff. That comes down to data manipulation. Can Pharo read Avro? - HH On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 14:00, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-29 Thread Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Thanks a lot Paulo for starting this thread and all the participants for the clever and enlightening answers. I just want to add my two cents. On 26/10/17 07:53, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > My personal opinion is that as pessimistic it may sound, Smalltalk has > very little to offer in the libr

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread Andrew Glynn
I will, although in some ways the two may be more complementary than anything. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Stephane Ducasse Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:06 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Hi andrew you should contact

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread henry
I referred to a Lambda Architecture, not the availability of Lambdas in the language. Pharo has the best with BlockClosures. - HH > Original Message > Subject: RE: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument > Local Time: October 27, 2017 11:10 PM > UTC Time: October 28,

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread henry
the Hadoop constellation of tools. That would be powerful. I need and wish to ask your opinion, for steering Pharo into an enterprise solution, what features does Pharo need to be a better player? - HH > Original Message > Subject: RE: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument &

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread henry
I looked and was not able to find it. Which version of Pharo are we talking about? What is the name of the kafka integration? - HH > Original Message > Subject: RE: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument > Local Time: October 27, 2017 11:10 PM > UTC Time: October 28,

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread Stephane Ducasse
gt; >> >> >> With the last statement, that expresses really well the exact reason I no >> longer want to work in most other environments 😊. >> >> >> >> Tc >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread Stephane Ducasse
ments 😊. > > > > Tc > > Andrew > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *p...@highoctane.be > *Sent: *Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:19 AM > *To: *Any question

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-28 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 6:10 AM Andrew Glynn wrote: > Web dev is a messy field. Not because it has grown too fast, but because > it was designed by amateurs, developed by amateurs, and continues to be so, > while depending on an underlying expertly designed system, the internet. > Non sense. C

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
The Kafka integration is right in the Pharo catalog. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be another good one. I heard there

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be another good one. I heard there was a Kafka integration, is that true? Where could I find that, I used to use Kafka. Kafka is a great event channel for

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
language, whether Java, Scala, or anything else that compiles to JVM bytecode. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
and more consistent way. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be another good one. I heard there was a Kafka integration,

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
: henry; Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument There are two key Kerberos implementations one can use with Hadoop. One is the FreeIpa/RedHat IdM. The other is ActiveDirectory. I am using FreeIPA which bundles MIT Kerberos/389/sssd and more for making a CA

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
overlay. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be another good one. I heard there was a Kafka integration, is that true? Where

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
And btw, Kafka, like Storm and Spark, is a very limited, and very slow way of accessing Hadoop data stores. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
From: henry Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:03 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Elastic search JSON integration would be another good one. I heard there was a Kafka integration, is that true? Where could I find that, I used to use Kafka

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
...@objektfabrik.de Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument   Andrew, Am 26.10.17 um 00:46 schrieb Andrew Glynn: There’s other questions that are relevant to me: I am glad you opened your words with this sentence. Other peoples

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
this, while the software industry is the extreme contradiction.   From: Pharo-users on behalf of David Mason Reply-To: Any question about pharo is welcome Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:52 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument   PharoJS

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Ben Coman
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Glynn wrote: > One thing I’m working on is a bridge between Pharo and F-Script. F-Script > is, basically, a Smalltalk dialect, as is obvious from the screenshot. > However for MacOS and iOS, it allows you to bypass the static Objective-C > API interface an

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
, October 26, 2017 2:19 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument I like that piece a lot, seeing exactly the described situation in large enterprises. I made a strategic decision to go with Pharo for the long run for my solutions because it is a

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
From: jtuc...@objektfabrik.de Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Andrew, Am 26.10.17 um 00:46 schrieb Andrew Glynn: There’s other questions that are relevant to me: I am glad you opened your words with this sentence

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
26, 2017 8:54 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Well all languages have well designed and badly designed libraries , in Pharo you dont even have to look hard just take a look at Morph and Object class and awe at all those irrelevant methods

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
it necessary. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: jtuc...@objektfabrik.de Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Andrew, Am 26.10.17 um 00:46 schrieb Andrew Glynn: There’s other questions that are relevant to me: I

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread henry
ndustry, so I don’t expect that everyone will >>> feel that way. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> Sent from [Mail](""https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"";) for >>> Windows 10 >>>

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread henry
.de]("mailto:jtuc...@objektfabrik.de";) >> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM >> To: [pharo-users@lists.pharo.org]("mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org";) >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument >> >> Andrew, >> >> Am

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread henry
de > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM > To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument > > Andrew, > > Am 26.10.17 um 00:46 schrieb Andrew Glynn: > >> There’s other questions that are relevant to me: > > I am glad you open

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread Andrew Glynn
feel that way. Cheers Andrew Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: jtuc...@objektfabrik.de Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:14 AM To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument Andrew, Am 26.10.17 um 00:46 schrieb Andrew Glynn: There’s other questions that are

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-27 Thread henry
gt;>> Of the 4 types of integration, I vote for and step forward to volunteer >>>>> to help Kerberos integration in Pharo. What to do? >>>>> >>>>> - HH >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 09:06, henry wrote: >&

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread Ben Coman
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: > I like your depiction of the situation and arguments, Andrew. > > The inherent volatility of the software industry due to its tendency > to self disruption, as you pointed out, is fertile ground to all kinds of > crap, but we as developer

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread p...@highoctane.be
> I try posting with a smaller image. > > [image: ""hubbub.jpg""] > > - HH > > > ——— Original Message ——— > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument > Local Time: October 26, 2017 8:52 AM > UTC Time: October 26, 2017 12:52 PM > From: he...@callist

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread henry
help Kerberos integration in Pharo. What to do? >>> >>> - HH >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 09:06, henry >>> <[he...@callistohouse.club](%22%22mailto:he...@callistohouse.club%22%22)> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I try posting with a s

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
n Pharo. What to do? > > > - HH > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 09:06, henry <%22%22mailto:he...@callistohouse.club%22%22>> wrote: > > I try posting with a smaller image. > > ""hubbub.jpg"" > >

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
> > > > Software as virtual is inherently disruptive, and the software industry > disrupts itself too often and too easily to build on anything. A further > disruption caused by developers, *as* engineers, refusing to work with > crap that *doesn’t*, i.e. insisting on being engineers

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
y is the extreme contradiction. *From: *Pharo-users on behalf of David Mason *Reply-To: *Any question about pharo is welcome *Date: *Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:52 AM *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument PharoJS is working

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
ware > industry disrupts itself too often and too easily to build on > anything. A further disruption caused by developers, /as/ engineers, > refusing to work with crap that /doesn’t/, i.e. insisting on being > engineers, while in itself merely an aggravation of the disruptive > tenden

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-26 Thread p...@highoctane.be
virtual is inherently disruptive, and the software industry > disrupts itself too often and too easily to build on anything. A further > disruption caused by developers, *as* engineers, refusing to work with > crap that *doesn’t*, i.e. insisting on being engineers, while in itself > merely

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-25 Thread henry
ve, and the software industry >> disrupts itself too often and too easily to build on anything. A further >> disruption caused by developers, as engineers, refusing to work with crap >> that doesn’t, i.e. insisting on being engineers, while in itself merely an >> aggravation of t

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-25 Thread p...@highoctane.be
a stable core of technologies as the basis for a more volatile set > of products, in the way nearly every other industry does, is the best means > we know of to build things both flexibly and reasonably efficiently. The > computer hardware industry is the extreme example of this, while the > s

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-25 Thread henry
re volatile set of > products, in the way nearly every other industry does, is the best means we > know of to build things both flexibly and reasonably efficiently. The > computer hardware industry is the extreme example of this, while the software > industry is the extreme contrad

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-25 Thread Andrew Glynn
: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument PharoJS is working to give you that mobile app/browser app experience. As with others, we're not there yet, but getting there. See http://pharojs.org The 67% loved means that 67% of people using Smalltalk (or perhaps have ever used it) wa

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-24 Thread David Mason
PharoJS is working to give you that mobile app/browser app experience. As with others, we're not there yet, but getting there. See http://pharojs.org The 67% loved means that 67% of people using Smalltalk (or perhaps have ever used it) want to continue - so it's presumably a high percentage of a

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-23 Thread horrido
Of all the responses here, I like this one the best because it's right on the money. In my long career, I've been dropped into many software projects where I had to quickly ramp up with a new programming language. The employer didn't hire me for my language expertise; they hired me for my programm

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-23 Thread horrido
To quote from The Wisdom of the Crowd : The crowd is indeed wise. This wisdom shows up in the latest StackOverflow survey , as well

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Peter Fisk
Thank you Joachim! That is the most honest assessment of the situation of Smalltalk in 2017 that I have ever seen. And I agree with you 100%. We need a new Smalltalk which is both "cool" and can seamlessly integrate with all of the latest web technologies. I will be releasing a new Smalltalk fr

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
Actually you need to read the small letters bellow the graph "% of developers who are developing with the language or technology and have expressed interest in continuing to develop with it" which means basically "Smalltalkers love Smalltalk !!!|" . Actually I am surpised its only 67% of Smalltal

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread stephan
On 20-10-17 09:23, jtuc...@objektfabrik.de wrote: And, to be honest: what is it we actually are better in by using Smalltalk? Making software that stays maintainable. It might be survivor bias, but smalltalk systems continue to be maintained by far smaller groups of developers than competing

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
On 10/20/2017 10:38 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > > > 2017-10-20 10:20 GMT+02:00 Marten Feldtmann >: > > I do not want to spoil the party (perhaps I've done this already) > - but > has anyone done a serious inspection of this number: 67%. > > They have

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Pavel Krivanek
2017-10-20 10:20 GMT+02:00 Marten Feldtmann : > I do not want to spoil the party (perhaps I've done this already) - but > has anyone done a serious inspection of this number: 67%. > > They have interviewed 64000 persons and 67% of the people should "love" > Smalltalk? Come on, that seems to be not

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
I also do not believe my eyes: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted On 10/20/2017 10:20 AM, Marten Feldtmann wrote: > I do not want to spoil the party (perhaps I've done this already) - but > has anyone done a serious inspection of this number: 67%. > > Th

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Marten Feldtmann
I do not want to spoil the party (perhaps I've done this already) - but has anyone done a serious inspection of this number: 67%. They have interviewed 64000 persons and 67% of the people should "love" Smalltalk? Come on, that seems to be not possible. Perhaps 67% of the user already using Smallta

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
I think you have nailed it, Joachim! The development environment is per se very productive and easy to use and learn but at the moment you need something that isn't present in your code library, things can get very hard. Well, that's not really new and not only a problem that concerns Smalltalk, b

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread jtuc...@objektfabrik.de
First of all: I'd say the question itself is not a question but an excuse. I am not arguing there are enough Smalltalkers or cheap ones. But I think the question is just a way of saying "we don't want to do it for reasons that we ourselves cannot really express". If you are a good developer, le

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-20 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
Dear Ben, Jimmie, Stephane, Tim, Dimitris, Marten, Davorin, Stephan, Sebastian and James, thank you for your feedback! Your excellent replies will sure help me with my "Smalltalk Argument". Obviously the language cannot be employed to efficiently implement solutions for problems in all domains, bu

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Ben Coman
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, i

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Jimmie Houchin
In addition to the excellent replies you have already received I would like to offer this from Stack Overflow. In their 2017 Developer Survey,  Smalltalk was the second most loved language at 67% of developers surveyed. This is a regular occurrence. Now if you look at the rest of the survey y

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Stephane Ducasse
This is super easy. - You ask here, - Second then you try to grab the best open-minded guys you know and they will use the super cool mooc and learn Pharo in a week or two. You can tell them that we are not teaching Pharo and still students good in Java learn it before their internships. For a good

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Tim Mackinnon
I'm sure this comes up with many less main stream languages - I think there is a strong argument (particularly if we get the GitHub piece operating smoothly) that the language is so simple that what you creating is domain understanding (not language/tools prowess). Any good developer (particula

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Dimitris Chloupis
I would have followed the Python approach. When Guido created Python , it did not try to convince his co-workers about how superior it was compared to other languages. At the time he did not intend to use it even as programming language. That worked to his advantage. Instead it used it for small t

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread itli...@schrievkrom.de
Hello Paulo, its a problem to get Smalltalkers - simple as it is. I had contacts with Smalltalkers who wanted to do Smalltalk-"only" jobs - thats impossible to guarantee in a smaller company and perhaps a mind I would not expect from Smalltalker. And the point about "Main Development Language" ..

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Davorin Rusevljan
One way to address this issue is to factor in your development grooming of young Smalltalk developers, which can act as pool of potential full developers for your project. If you can add some of your domain specific issues to their grooming, you could increase your project HR safety quite a lot. D

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread James Ladd
Nice response Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 19 Oct 2017, at 7:02 pm, Sebastian Heidbrink wrote: > > Hi Paulo, > > I think this is not the right question to ask. > The problem is not "Where to find Smalltalk developers?", the problem is > rather > "How much effort does it take to help a good

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread stephan
On 19-10-17 09:04, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk should be employed as "main development language" in a team or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Sebastian Heidbrink via Pharo-users
--- Begin Message --- Hi Paulo, I think this is not the right question to ask. The problem is not "Where to find Smalltalk developers?", the problem is rather "How much effort does it take to help a good experienced OO developer to transition to Smalltalk?" OO developers have to steadily gain

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread James Ladd
Hi Paulo, That is a really good question and I hope to do it justice. What if you chose Elixir, Ruby, Closure, Go or Pony or Smalltalk - where would you get developers? There is some validity to this question as it can be hard to get developers but in Smalltalk’s case there is a heritage that

[Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

2017-10-19 Thread Paulo R. Dellani
Dear all, after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk should be employed as "