On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 12:45 AM Matthias van de Meent
wrote:
>
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 15:56, Michel Pelletier
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 6:15 AM Matthias van de Meent
> > wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 13:46, Alexander Korotkov
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:27 PM
On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 15:56, Michel Pelletier
wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 6:15 AM Matthias van de Meent
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 13:46, Alexander Korotkov
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:27 PM Andrew Dunstan wrote:
On 2022-10-27 Th 19:38, Andres Freund wrote:
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 4:16 PM Thomas Munro wrote:
> To explain my earlier guess: reader code for #S(STRUCTNAME ...) can
> bee seen here, though it's being lexed as "PLAN_SYM" so perhaps the
> author of that C already didn't know that was a general syntax for
> Lisp structs. (Example: at a Lisp
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 6:15 AM Matthias van de Meent <
boekewurm+postg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 13:46, Alexander Korotkov
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:27 PM Andrew Dunstan
> wrote:
> >> On 2022-10-27 Th 19:38, Andres Freund wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > On 2022-
On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 at 13:46, Alexander Korotkov wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:27 PM Andrew Dunstan wrote:
>> On 2022-10-27 Th 19:38, Andres Freund wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On 2022-09-19 22:29:15 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>> >> Maybe a compromise could be found whereby we provide a conversion
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:27 PM Andrew Dunstan wrote:
> On 2022-10-27 Th 19:38, Andres Freund wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2022-09-19 22:29:15 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >> Maybe a compromise could be found whereby we provide a conversion function
> >> that converts whatever the catalog storage format
On 2022-10-27 Th 19:38, Andres Freund wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 2022-09-19 22:29:15 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>> Maybe a compromise could be found whereby we provide a conversion function
>> that converts whatever the catalog storage format is to some JSON
>> equivalent. That would address the needs of e
Hi,
On 2022-09-19 22:29:15 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> There are certainly reasons to think about changing the node tree
> storage format; but if we change it, I'd like to see it go to something
> more compact not more verbose.
Very much seconded - the various pg_node_trees are a quite significant
f
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:04 AM Matthias van de Meent <
boekewurm+postg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 17:29, Alvaro Herrera
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-Sep-20, Matthias van de Meent wrote:
> >
> > > Allow me to add: compressability
> > >
> > > In the thread surrounding [0] there we
On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 17:29, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> On 2022-Sep-20, Matthias van de Meent wrote:
>
> > Allow me to add: compressability
> >
> > In the thread surrounding [0] there were complaints about the size of
> > catalogs, and specifically the template database. Significant parts of
> >
On 2022-Sep-20, Matthias van de Meent wrote:
> Allow me to add: compressability
>
> In the thread surrounding [0] there were complaints about the size of
> catalogs, and specifically the template database. Significant parts of
> that (688kB of 8080kB a fresh PG14 database) are in pg_rewrite, whic
On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 12:00, Alexander Korotkov wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 7:48 AM Tom Lane wrote:
> > Peter Geoghegan writes:
> > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> Our existing format is certainly not great on those metrics, but
> > >> I do not see how "let's use
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 1:00 PM Alexander Korotkov wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 7:48 AM Tom Lane wrote:
> > Peter Geoghegan writes:
> > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> Our existing format is certainly not great on those metrics, but
> > >> I do not see how "let's us
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 7:48 AM Tom Lane wrote:
> Peter Geoghegan writes:
> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> >> Our existing format is certainly not great on those metrics, but
> >> I do not see how "let's use JSON!" is a route to improvement.
>
> > The existing format was des
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 4:58 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 9:48 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> > As Munro adduces nearby, it'd be a stretch to conclude that the current
> > format was designed with any Postgres-related goals in mind at all.
> > I think he's right that it's a variant o
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 9:48 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> As Munro adduces nearby, it'd be a stretch to conclude that the current
> format was designed with any Postgres-related goals in mind at all.
> I think he's right that it's a variant of some Lisp-y dump format that's
> probably far hoarier than eve
Peter Geoghegan writes:
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tom Lane wrote:
>> Our existing format is certainly not great on those metrics, but
>> I do not see how "let's use JSON!" is a route to improvement.
> The existing format was designed with developer convenience as a goal,
> though -- desp
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 4:03 PM Thomas Munro wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 3:58 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> > Thomas Munro writes:
> > > FWIW, it derives from Lisp s-expressions, but deviates from Lisp's
> > > default reader/printer behaviour in small ways, including being case
> > > sensitive and u
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 3:58 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> Thomas Munro writes:
> > FWIW, it derives from Lisp s-expressions, but deviates from Lisp's
> > default reader/printer behaviour in small ways, including being case
> > sensitive and using {NAME :x 1 ...} instead of #S(NAME :x 1 ...) for
> > struc
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:58 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> Wow, where did you find a commit history for Berkeley's code?
> There's evidence in the tarballs I have that they were using
> RCS, but I never heard that the repo was made public.
It's on Github:
https://github.com/kelvich/postgres_pre95
--
Pet
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 8:39 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> There are certainly use-cases for something like that, but let's
> be clear about it: that's a niche case of interest to developers
> and pretty much nobody else. For ordinary users, what matters about
> the node tree storage format is compactness
Thomas Munro writes:
> FWIW, it derives from Lisp s-expressions, but deviates from Lisp's
> default reader/printer behaviour in small ways, including being case
> sensitive and using {NAME :x 1 ...} instead of #S(NAME :x 1 ...) for
> structs for reasons that are lost AFAIK (there's a dark age betw
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 7:59 AM Tom Lane wrote:
>
> Michel Pelletier writes:
> > I would like to propose a discussion that in a future major release
> > Postgres switch from this custom format to JSON.
>
> There are certainly reasons to think about changing the node tree
> storage format; but if
Peter Geoghegan writes:
> Writing declarative @> containment queries against (say) a JSON
> variant of node tree format seems like it could be a huge quality of
> life improvement.
There are certainly use-cases for something like that, but let's
be clear about it: that's a niche case of interest
On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:16 PM Michel Pelletier
wrote:
> This non-standard format
FWIW, it derives from Lisp s-expressions, but deviates from Lisp's
default reader/printer behaviour in small ways, including being case
sensitive and using {NAME :x 1 ...} instead of #S(NAME :x 1 ...) for
structs
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 7:29 PM Tom Lane wrote:
> Maybe a compromise could be found whereby we provide a conversion
> function that converts whatever the catalog storage format is to
> some JSON equivalent. That would address the needs of external
> code that doesn't want to write a custom parser
Michel Pelletier writes:
> I would like to propose a discussion that in a future major release
> Postgres switch from this custom format to JSON.
There are certainly reasons to think about changing the node tree
storage format; but if we change it, I'd like to see it go to something
more compact
Hello hackers,
As noted in the source:
https://github.com/postgres/postgres/blob/master/src/include/nodes/pg_list.h#L6-L11
* Once upon a time, parts of Postgres were written in Lisp and used real
* cons-cell lists for major data structures. When that code was rewritten
* in C, we initially h
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