On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 1:59 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> Have you read the documentation in question recently? The first two
> paragraphs, in particular:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/routine-vacuuming.html#VACUUM-FOR-WRAPAROUND
>
> As I keep pointing out, we literally introduce the wh
On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 7:47 PM Greg Stark wrote:
> It's not like there are 2 billion XIDs in a big pool being used and
> returned and as long as you don't use too many XIDs leaving the pool
> empty you're ok. When people talk about resource exhaustion they
> imagine that they just need a faster m
On Thu, 11 May 2023 at 16:41, Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> > I say "exhaustion" or "overload" are meaningless because their meaning
> > is entirely dependent on context. It's not like memory exhaustion or
> > i/o overload where it's a finite resource and it's just the sheer
> > amount in use that ma
On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 10:36 AM Ryan Booz wrote:
> Just to say on the outset, as has been said earlier in the tread by others,
> that this is herculean work. Thank you for putting the effort you have thus
> far.
Thanks!
> > It would be nice if it was possible to add an animation/diagram a
> >
And, of course, I forgot that I switch to text-mode after writing most
of this, so the carriage returns were unnecessary. (facepalm... sigh)
--
Ryan
On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 1:36 PM Ryan Booz wrote:
>
> Thanks for the continued work, Peter. I hate to be the guy that starts this
> way,
> but this
Thanks for the continued work, Peter. I hate to be the guy that starts this way,
but this is my first ever response on pgsql-hackers. (insert awkward
smile face).
Hopefully I've followed etiquette well, but please forgive any
missteps, and I'm
happy for any help in making better contributions in th
On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:40 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> Just to be clear, I am not proposing changing the name of
> anti-wraparound autovacuum at all. What I'd like to do is use a term
> like "XID exhaustion" to refer to the state that we internally refer
> to as xidStopLimit. My motivation is si
On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:04 PM Greg Stark wrote:
> Fwiw while "wraparound" has pitfalls I think changing it for a new
> word isn't really helpful. Especially if it's a mostly meaningless
> word like "overload" or "exhaustion". It suddenly makes every existing
> doc hard to find and confusing to r
On Wed, 3 May 2023 at 18:50, Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> What about "XID allocation overload"? The implication that I'm going
> for here is that the system was misconfigured, or there was otherwise
> some kind of imbalance between XID supply and demand.
Fwiw while "wraparound" has pitfalls I think
Hi,
On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 3:48 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 2:59 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> > Coming up with a new user-facing name for xidStopLimit is already on
> > my TODO list (it's surprisingly hard). I have used that name so far
> > because it unambiguously refers
Hi,
On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 2:59 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> Hi Samay,
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 11:40 PM samay sharma
> wrote:
> > Thanks for taking the time to do this. It is indeed difficult work.
>
> Thanks for the review! I think that this is something that would
> definitely benefit from
On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 2:59 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> Coming up with a new user-facing name for xidStopLimit is already on
> my TODO list (it's surprisingly hard). I have used that name so far
> because it unambiguously refers to the exact thing that I want to talk
> about when discussing the wo
Hi Samay,
On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 11:40 PM samay sharma wrote:
> Thanks for taking the time to do this. It is indeed difficult work.
Thanks for the review! I think that this is something that would
definitely benefit from a perspective such as yours.
> There are things I like about the changes y
Hi,
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 2:58 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> My work on page-level freezing for PostgreSQL 16 has some remaining
> loose ends to tie up with the documentation. The "Routine Vacuuming"
> section of the docs has no mention of page-level freezing. It also
> doesn't mention the FPI o
On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 1:29 PM Robert Haas wrote:
> I told you that I did not agree with your dislike for the term
> wraparound and I explained why. You sent a couple more emails telling
> me that I was wrong and, frankly, saying a lot of things that seem
> only tangentially related to the point t
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:21 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> I can't imagine why you feel it necessary to communicate with me like
> this. This is just vitriol, lacking any substance.
John's email is pretty harsh, but I can understand why he's frustrated.
I told you that I did not agree with your di
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:04 PM John Naylor wrote:
> Oh that's rich. I'll note that 5% of your review was actually helpful (actual
> correction), the other 95% was needless distraction trying to enlist me in
> your holy crusade against the term "wraparound". It had the opposite effect.
I went ba
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:04 PM John Naylor wrote:
> Here's some advice on how to avoid pushback:
>
> 1. Insist that all terms can only be interpreted in the most pig-headedly
> literal sense possible.
> 2. Use that premise to pretend basic facts are a complete mystery.
I can't imagine why you fe
On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 12:09 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:16 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> > On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:08 AM Robert Haas
wrote:
> > > I disagree. If you start the cluster in single-user mode, you can
> > > actually wrap it around, unless something has chang
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 12:03 PM Maciek Sakrejda wrote:
> I don't want to put words into Peter's mouth, but I think that he's arguing
> that the term "wraparound" suggests that there is something special about the
> transition between xid 2^32 and xid 0 (or, well, 3). There isn't.
Yes, that's ex
On Mon, May 1, 2023, 18:08 Robert Haas wrote:
> I am saying that, while wraparound is perhaps not a perfect term
> for what's happening, it is not, in my opinion, a bad term either.
I don't want to put words into Peter's mouth, but I think that he's arguing
that the term "wraparound" suggests t
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:16 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:08 AM Robert Haas wrote:
> > I disagree. If you start the cluster in single-user mode, you can
> > actually wrap it around, unless something has changed that I don't
> > know about.
>
> This patch relies on John's ot
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 9:08 AM Robert Haas wrote:
> I disagree. If you start the cluster in single-user mode, you can
> actually wrap it around, unless something has changed that I don't
> know about.
This patch relies on John's other patch which strongly discourages the
use of single-user mode.
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 12:01 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> > If the XID space were non-circular, it could
> > never try to reuse the XID values that have previously been used, and
> > this entire class of problems would go away. Because it is circular,
> > it's possible for the XID counter to arrive
On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 8:03 AM Robert Haas wrote:
> To me, the fact that the XID space is circular is the whole point of
> talking about wraparound.
The word wraparound is ambiguous. It's not the same thing as
xidStopLimit in my view. It's literal integer wraparound.
If you think of XIDs as havi
On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 1:58 PM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
> Why do we call wraparound wraparound, anyway? The 32-bit XID space is
> circular! The whole point of the design is that unsigned integer
> wraparound is meaningless -- there isn't really a point in "the
> circle" that you should think of as
On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 8:54 PM John Naylor
wrote:
> I've done a more careful read-through, but I'll need a couple more, I imagine.
Yeah, it's tough to get this stuff right.
> I'll first point out some things I appreciate, and I'm glad are taken care of
> as part of this work:
>
> - Pushing the
On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 12:58 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> [v2]
I've done a more careful read-through, but I'll need a couple more, I
imagine.
I'll first point out some things I appreciate, and I'm glad are taken care
of as part of this work:
- Pushing the talk of scheduled manual vacuums to t
On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 1:17 AM John Naylor
wrote:
> > Although I didn't mention the issue with single user mode in my
> > introductory email (the situation there is just appalling IMV), it
> > seems like I might not be able to ignore that problem while I'm
> > working on this patch. Declaring tha
On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 12:58 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 12:16 AM John Naylor
> wrote:
> > Now is a great time to revise this section, in my view. (I myself am
about ready to get back to testing and writing for the task of removing
that "obnoxious hint".)
>
> Although I
On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 4:58 AM Peter Geoghegan wrote:
>
> There are also very big structural problems with "Routine Vacuuming",
> that I also propose to do something about. Honestly, it's a huge mess
> at this point. It's nobody's fault in particular; there has been
> accretion after accretion ad
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