My apologies if the following has already been suggested.
I know Larry said the colon was his, but presumably he's
not talking about the double colon, as currently used as a
package name separator, right?
What if:
use Foo::Bar qw/ qux waldo /;
can be written:
use Foo::Bar :: qux waldo
Just a quick obeservation:
Given the radicalness of the changes suggested by apo 2, I think it's
fair to say that the proportion of Perl 5 code that will run unchanged
on a Perl 6 interpreter will be heading into single-figure percentages.
While I personally think this will be price well worth pa
Larry:
> Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use string
> indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of this
> information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
> is going to be a major performance win in Perl 6.
Assuming that optimization
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:19:10AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> to be such that the writing of the Perl 5 to 6 translator utility is
> still feasable.
If you're at TPC this year, you'll hear me how explain how translators
*far* weirder than simply Perl 5 to Perl 6 are possible. :)
Briefly: We w
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Cozens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:01 AM
> To: Dave Mitchell
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The 5% solution
>
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:19:10AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> > to be such that the writing of the
(apologies if this is a duplicate - I think my last post has gotten lost).
> The RFC pleads for a community spirit from ORA. Barring that, it seeks
> a new symbol for the community entirely
I'd suggest a mongoose - eats poisonous snakes for breakfast.
There's a sort of tie-in with Perl Mongers
/me likes. /me likes a lot.
David T. Grove
Blue Square Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Hartnoll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:56 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Apoc2 - concerns : new mascot?
>
>
>
> Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
> CLR, so that if you can somehow get bytecode onto it - from whatever
> language - you can run it. So we've got some bytecode that perl can run.
> Now think about what B::Deparse does.
I knew the intention was to go the
Hillary writes:
: >I happen to like $ and @. They're not going away in standard Perl as
: >long as I have anything to do with it. Nevertheless, my vision for Perl
: >is that it enable people to do what *they* want, not what I want.
: >
: >Larry
:
: If only that were true...But it isn't true. It
Me writes:
: Larry:
: > Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use string
: > indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of this
: > information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
: > is going to be a major performance win in Perl 6.
:
: As
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Me writes:
> : Larry:
> : > Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use string
> : > indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of this
> : > information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
> : > is go
> Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
> strings than for numbers. Dictionaries and calculators have very
> different interfaces in the real world, and it's false economy to
> overgeneralize. Witness the travails of people trying to use
> cell phones to type mess
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Larry Wall wrote:
> In this view, * and < could just be two different kinds of "expandable" flags.
> But I'm uncomfortable with that, because I'd like to be able to say
>
> lazy_sub(<$STDIN, <$STDIN, <$STDIN, <$STDIN)
>
> to feed four lines to lazy_sub without defeati
Dave Mitchell writes:
: Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
: X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
: X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
:
:
: > Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
: > CLR, so that if you can so
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Me wrote:
> yes?
>
> And, despite perl5's use of no as the opposite
> of use, and given that there may be no use in
> perl6 (;>), and thus perhaps no no, (on and off?),
> then maybe no could be used as not yes?
>
> no?
Your Honor, I would like to stipulate that t
Dave Storrs wrote:
> *4<$STDIN # Next 4 lines
> *$num_lines<$STDIN # Numifies $num_lines, gets that many
> *int rand(6)<$STDIN # Gets 0-5 lines
> *&mySub($bar)<$STDIN# mySub returns num, gets that many
Shades of printf...
--
John Porter
At 08:40 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
>Dave Mitchell writes:
>: Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
>: X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
>: X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
>:
>:
>: > Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equival
On Fri, 4 May 2001 18:20:52 -0700 (PDT), Larry Wall wrote:
>: love. I'd expect $FOO.readln (or something less Pascalish) to do an
>: explicit readline to a variable other than $_
>
>It would be $FOO.next, but yes, that's the basic idea. It's possible
>that iterator variables should be more synta
Dave Storrs writes:
: You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: lines you wanted like so:
:
: <$STDIN # One line
: *<$STDIN# All available lines
: *4<$STDIN # Next 4 lines
:
: Or even:
:
: *$num_l
Larry Wall wrote:
>
> : do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
>
> Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
> strings than for numbers.
Different operators, conflated data type.
That's what we have for scalars already.
Makes sense to have i
> -Original Message-
> From: John Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:58 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: what I meant about hungarian notation
>
>
> Larry Wall wrote:
> >
> > : do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
> >
> > No
Dan Sugalski writes:
: At 08:40 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
: >Dave Mitchell writes:
: >: Content-MD5: FiIz8m/ma8enU5CTBqhsQw==
: >: X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.2 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc
: >: X-Spam-Rating: onion.valueclick.com 1.6.2 0/1000/N
: >:
: >:
: >: > Briefly: We wan
At 05:56 PM 5/10/2001 +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
>On Fri, 4 May 2001 18:20:52 -0700 (PDT), Larry Wall wrote:
>
> >: love. I'd expect $FOO.readln (or something less Pascalish) to do an
> >: explicit readline to a variable other than $_
> >
> >It would be $FOO.next, but yes, that's the basic idea. I
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:56:41PM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
> People are *very much* familiar with reading a line from a file. People
> may steer clear from a language because it deeply relies on exotic stuff
> like iterators.
> ...
> What you could do, is treat an iterator as "something similar
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:57:54AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
> Makes sense to have it for containers indexed by scalar as well.
I'll say it again for the l^W^W^W - arrays and hashes are conceptually
very different beasts.
Shopping list, phone book. Different things.
--
The man who sees, on New
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 08:40:52AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> Dave Mitchell writes:
> : > Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
> : > CLR, so that if you can somehow get bytecode onto it - from whatever
> : > language - you can run it. So we've got some bytecode
Simon Cozens writes:
: If you can "somehow get bytecode onto" Perl 6 - which you'll
: need to do with an alternate parser - you can then use the Perl 6 equivalent
: of B::Deparse to spit out Perl 6.
At some point it would have to be annotated with formatting and comment
info, though. Somebody wi
John Porter wrote:
>
> Larry Wall wrote:
> >
> > : do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
> >
> > Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
> > strings than for numbers.
>
> Different operators, conflated data type.
>
> That's what we have for s
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:43:13PM -0500, David L. Nicol wrote:
> John Porter wrote:
> >
> > Larry Wall wrote:
> > >
> > > : do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
> > >
> > > Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different operators for
> > > strings than for number
> The RFC pleads for a community spirit from ORA. Barring that, it seeks a
new
> symbol for the community entirely
I'd suggest a mongoose - eats poisonous snakes for breakfast.
There's a sort of tie-in with Perl Mongers == Perl Mongoose as well :-)
Dave.
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:51:25PM -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
> > I'll say it again for the l^W^W^W - arrays and hashes are conceptually
> > very different beasts.
>
> strings, integers, longs, and floats are conceptually very different beasts.
No, not really. Integers, longs and floats are al
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
[snip]
Some of us are are talking that way because we already
beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
Greek to Koine without changin
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
> Some of us are are talking that way because we already
> beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
> Greek to Koine without changing how people fundamentally
> view their language.
Oh, hyperbole
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 08:22:17PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> Oh, hyperbole! It's more like going from Katharevousa to Demotic.
(To pre-empt Philip Newton: Yes, I know, but going the other way wouldn't
have sounded like an advancement.)
--
An algorithm must be seen to be believed.
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> > If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
> [snip]
>
> Some of us are are talking that way because we already
> beleive it. You can't
On (03 May 2001 10:23:15 +0300) you wrote:
> Michael Schwern:
> >
> > Would be neat if: my($first) = grep {...} @list; knew to stop itself, yes.
> >
> > It also reminds me of mjd's mention of: my($first) = sort {...} @list;
> > being O(n) if Perl were really Lazy.
>
> But it would need a
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
>
> > If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it.
> [snip]
>
> Some of us are are talking that way because we already
> beleive it. You can't make the transition from Attic
> Greek to Koine without c
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Turoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:31 PM
> To: David Goehrig
> Cc: Larry Wall; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Perl, the new generation
>
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote:
> > On Thu, May 10
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:43:34AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> Peter Scott writes:
> : So, I wonder aloud, do we want to signify that degree of change with a more
> : dramatic change in the name?
>
> I'm inclined to think that people will be more likely to migrate if
> they subconsciously think w
From: Simon Cozens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:57:54AM -0400, John Porter wrote:
> >
> > Makes sense to have it for containers indexed by scalar as well.
>
> I'll say it again for the l^W^W^W - arrays and hashes are conceptually
> very different beasts.
strings,
> : Assuming that optimization opportunities remained intact,
>
> They won't, but go on.
Because the syntax won't provide the compiler enough info?
> : do you think conflating @ and % would be a perl6 design win?
>
> Nope, I still think most ordinary people want different
> operators for stri
On Thu, 10 May 2001, David Grove wrote:
> The changes are beautiful. It's calling it "Perl" and relying on subliminal
> pursuasion to ask users to consider it the same that bothers me. That's a
> very Microsoftish tactic.
No, it's "Perl 6". If you want "Perl 5" or even "Perl 4" you know where
t
There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
more than one alarm() set at a time, or some other mechanism for having
multiple pending signals.
Dave
Edward Peschko writes:
: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:43:34AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
: > Peter Scott writes:
: > : So, I wonder aloud, do we want to signify that degree of change with a more
: > : dramatic change in the name?
: >
: > I'm inclined to think that people will be more likely to migra
> "DS" == Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
DS> signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
DS> more than one alarm() set at a time, or some other mechanism for having
DS> m
< QUOTE LARRY >
Dave Storrs writes:
: You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: lines you wanted like so:
:
: <$STDIN # One line
: *<$STDIN# All available lines
: *4<$STDIN # Next 4 lines
:
: Or even:
:
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > "DS" == Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> DS> There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
> DS> signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
> DS> more than one alarm() set
Dave Storrs writes:
: < QUOTE LARRY >
: Dave Storrs writes:
: : You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: : lines you wanted like so:
: :
: : <$STDIN # One line
: : *<$STDIN# All available lines
: : *4<$STDIN
> if we have a proper core event loop as dan and i want, multiple timers
> will be part of that. and that will mean we can have timed out
> operations without the mess of eval/die (or whatever 6 will have for
> that).
Event loop will be great for many applications. We probably need
a better way
> "HZ" == Hong Zhang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
HZ> There is no need to store pending signals. It will be impossible
HZ> to achieve in a multi-threaded perl runtime.
HZ> The only safe signals in multi-threaded system is using to use
HZ> sigwaitinfo() for all process-wide signals. S
John Porter wrote:
> Larry Wall wrote:
> > We do have to worry about the C loop control function though.
> > It's possible that in
> >
> > FOO: while (1) {
> > next FOO if /foo/;
> > ...
> > }
> >
> > the C label is actually being recognized as a pseudo-package
> > name! The loop
Uri Guttman wrote:
>
> multiple timers
This means something like there is this array of sets of events,
and a thread that shifts off the front one every second and
feeds everythin in it into the event queue. Right?
--
David Nicol 816.235.1187 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to pull the next four lines out of a file handle in
way new syntax,
Larry Wall wrote:
>
> Dave Storrs writes:
> : < QUOTE LARRY >
> : Dave Storrs writes:
> : @foo = $STDIN * 4;
> :
> : Larry
What's wrong with old-fashioned autoextending array slices that
now DWIM
splice @foo,
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:00:13PM +0100, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:49:30PM -0700, Edward Peschko wrote:
> > We need to keep syntactic compatibility, which means we need to keep the
> > ability for perl6 to USE PERL5.
>
> I think you're in violent agreement here. Thi
Larry:
> : > Currently, @ and [] are a promise that you don't intend to use
string
> : > indexing on this variable. The optimizer can make good use of
this
> : > information. For non-tied arrays of compact intrinsic types, this
> : > is going to be a major performance win in Perl 6.
Clearly the
Edward Peschko writes:
: Although I would amend what he said to saying 'perl6 will eat perl 5 code
: close to painlessly as possible including typeglobs'. Typeglobs are a central
: part of a lot of CPAN's core modules; I don't think we could get away with
: abolishing them willy-nilly.
Much of t
> or some such, unless the purpose of the local(*foo) could be determined
> by unscrupulous means. Similarly, glob aliases *foo = *bar would
> need special treatment.
By far most of my use of typeglobs is making aliases, and then mostly
for code:
*color = \&colour;
So naturally I hope
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 07:40:04PM -0500, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> > or some such, unless the purpose of the local(*foo) could be determined
> > by unscrupulous means. Similarly, glob aliases *foo = *bar would
> > need special treatment.
>
> By far most of my use of typeglobs is making aliases
One of the great strengths of Perl is that, more than any other
language I know, it helps you cross between the "data" space and the
"program" space: eval(), built in regex notation, etc. Even with the
considerable expressive power already at our disposal, I would like to
suggest that there might
I've just put this into a program:
warn "about to unlink @{[<$FRname*>]}";
unlink <$FRname*>;
(wow, the MUA is a lot less vivid than a colorful code editor --
does mutt or emacs color-code code in e-mails?)
Demonstrating, the p5 "cast" can be performed. I guess p6 will
optim
> "DLN" == David L Nicol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DLN> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>
>> multiple timers
DLN> This means something like there is this array of sets of events,
DLN> and a thread that shifts off the front one every second and
DLN> feeds everythin in it into the event que
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:00:13PM +0100, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:49:30PM -0700, Edward Peschko wrote:
> > > We need to keep syntactic compatibility, which means we need
> to keep the
> > > ability for perl6 to USE PERL5.
> >
> > I think you're in violent agreemen
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