On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 11:04:18AM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:52:00PM -0400, Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
> >> From: tim.bu...@pobox.com
> >>
> >> So I'd like to use this sub-thread to try to identify when lessons we
> >
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 01:18:09AM +0200, Carl Mäsak wrote:
> Damian (>>), Matt (>):
> >> Perhaps we need to think more Perlishly and reframe the entire question.
> >> Not: "What threading model do we need?", but: "What kinds of non-sequential
> >> programming tasks do we want to make easy...and ho
.
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 01:22:10PM +0200, Leon Timmermans wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Tim Bunce wrote:
> > If you wanted to start a hundred threads in a language that has good
> > support for async constructs you're almost
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:52:00PM -0400, Benjamin Goldberg wrote:
>> From: tim.bu...@pobox.com
>>
>> So I'd like to use this sub-thread to try to identify when lessons we
>> can learn from ithreads. My initial thoughts are:
>>
>> - Don't clone a live interpreter.
>> Sta
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 04:00:02AM +0200, Leon Timmermans wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Tim Bunce wrote:
> > So I'd like to use this sub-thread to try to identify when lessons we
> > can learn from ithreads. My initial thoughts are:
> >
> >
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 03:42:00PM +0200, Leon Timmermans wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Ben Goldberg
> wrote:
> > If thread-unsafe subroutines are called, then something like ithreads
> > might be used.
>
> For the love of $DEITY, let's please not repeat ithreads!
It's worth rememb
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 07:22:33AM -0700, Damian Conway wrote:
>
> What we really need is some anecdotal evidence from folks who are actually
> using threading in real-world situations (in *any* languages). What has worked
> in practice? What has worked well? What was painful? What was error-prone
This thread reminded me of something I'd posted a while ago:
---snip---
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:23:11 +
From: Tim Bunce
To: Richard Hainsworth , perl6-language@perl.org
Subject: Re: Files, Directories, Resources, Operating Systems
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40:41PM +0100, Mark Ove
This struck me as interesting...
http://highscalability.com/blog/2010/6/18/paper-the-declarative-imperative-experiences-and-conjectures.html
"The Declarative Imperative: Experiences and Conjectures in Distributed Logic"
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2010/EECS-2010-90.pdf
Tim.
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:02:58PM +0100, pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
> Author: lwall
> New Revision: 29770
>
> Modified:
>docs/Perl6/Spec/S04-control.pod
> +resumed that the stack is unwound the the phasers called.
"the the"
Tim.
I gave the talk at OSSBarcamp in Dublin last weekend and it went well.
My sincere thanks to everyone who contributed.
The slides are available at:
http://www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/perl-myths-200909
The graphs and stats charting the continuing growth of perl and the perl
community were sur
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:15:10PM -0400, Nathan Gray wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:15:05PM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> > You can find my current draft at http://files.me.com/tim.bunce/65oikg
> > (2.3MB PDF)
>
> page 73 - Haskell should be spelled with two Ls
Thank you
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 04:46:33PM +0200, Carl Mäsak wrote:
> Tim (>), Carl (>>), Tim (>>>):
> >> > I'd be grateful for feedback on any of the slides, but I'm especially
> >> > interested in updates for:
> >> >
> >> > page 73 - Perl 6 implementations
> >> > I've added Mildew, with
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 03:46:54PM +0200, Carl Mäsak wrote:
> Tim (>):
> > I'd be grateful for feedback on any of the slides, but I'm especially
> > interested in updates for:
> >
> > page 73 - Perl 6 implementations
> > I've added Mildew, with links, to the SMOP line
> >
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:40:46AM +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
> Darren Duncan wrote:
>
> > So another proposal I have is to add to the slideshow mentions of the
> > Enlightened and Modern Perl movements and where one can go to read more,
> > this being supplemental to PBP.
>
> With that suggesti
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 03:07:40PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote:
>
> pp 22-23 - You might want to update the screen captures related to Moose,
> both its search.cpan page and dependency graph, since its moved a long way
> from 2008; on the other hand, the existing captures are still quite
> repre
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 05:49:41PM +0400, Richard Hainsworth wrote:
> For the slides on Rakudo, I would suggest adding the modules that are
> associated with proto as measure of code written in perl6. There is a list
> of 27 projects. proto in itself is an interesting installer.
I wasn't aware o
I'm working on an update to my "Perl - Baseless Myths and Startling
Realities" talk. (Which I'll be giving in Dublin, Moscow and Pisa in the
few weeks!)
I got great help on the Perl 5 portion of the talk when I asked via my blog
http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/08/13/help-me-update-my-perl-myths-talk
On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 10:19:44AM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 04:30:07PM +0400, Richard Hainsworth wrote:
> > Referring to Patrick's blog about an official 'useable' version of
> > Rakudo, a suggestion:
> >
> > Since Rakudo* (not sure how it is to be written) is in
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 04:41:12PM -0800, Ovid wrote:
> I really don't think this is a bug, but it did confuse the heck out of me at
> first. This *is* expected behavior due to how {} is interpolated in strings,
> yes?
>
> $ perl6 -e 'my $foo = "foo";say "<" ~ $foo ~ ">"'
>
> $ perl6 -e
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 05:54:50PM +0100, pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
> Author: moritz
> Date: 2009-01-05 17:54:50 +0100 (Mon, 05 Jan 2009)
> New Revision: 24769
> +=item can
> +
> + our Bool multi method can ($self:, Str $method)
> +
> +If there is a multi method of name C<$method> that
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40:41PM +0100, Mark Overmeer wrote:
> We should focus on OS abstraction.
> [...] the design of this needs to be free from historical mistakes.
And avoid making too many new ones. There must be useful prior art around.
Java, for example, has a FileSystem abstraction ja
On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 07:01:39PM +1000, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Tim Bunce wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 11:24:04PM -0400, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
>>> On 2008 Oct 1, at 22:23, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 1 Oct 200
On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 11:24:04PM -0400, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
> On 2008 Oct 1, at 22:23, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
>>> On 2008 Oct 1, at 22:14, Timothy S. Nelson wrote:
Hi all. I've enjoyed(?) reading over the February/March
On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 12:53:32PM +0800, Agent Zhang wrote:
> On 6/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Hi I am sameer and am new to this group. It would realy help if any
> >body can let me know is there a book or reference guiode where in i
> >can get help regarding the perl/ja
On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 11:04:29PM -0400, Jesse Vincent wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce the inaugural Perl 6 Microgrants program.
> Best Practical Solutions (my company) has donated USD5,000 to The
> Perl Foundation to help support Perl 6 Development. Leon Brocard,
> representing The Perl F
On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 03:57:01PM -0700, Jonathan Lang wrote:
> Tim Bunce wrote:
> >Damian Conway wrote:
> >> Dave Whipp wrote:
> >> >I'm not a great fan of this concept of "reservation" when there is no
> >> >mechanism for its enforceme
On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 02:55:57PM +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
> Dave Whipp wrote:
>
> >I'm not a great fan of this concept of "reservation" when there is no
> >mechanism for its enforcement (and this is perl...).
>
> What makes you assume there will be no mechanism for enforcement? The
> stand
On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 11:59:48PM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> That's partly why I added the following idea to The Perl Foundation's Summer
> of Code
> project list (http://www.perl.org/advocacy/summerofcode/ideas.html):
>
> Reimplement the DBI v1 API in Pugs
> Des
he familiar DBI API while radically refactoring
the internals to make best use of Perl 6 and so enable greater
functionality and extensibility. (Likely mentor: Tim Bunce)
Trying to come up with both a new architecture and a new API was too much.
A great deal can be achieved by radically refactori
The Class::Role and Class::Roles modules on CPAN implement a form of
compile-time Perl6 role composition for Perl5.
Neither supports run-time role composition, as-in:
http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S12.html#Roles
The does operator returns the object so you can nest mixins:
On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 09:43:41PM -0400, Matt Fowles wrote:
>
>Java on Parrot
> Tim Bunce asked some preliminary questions about Java on Parrot. I
> provide preliminary answers, and Nattfodd and Autrijus posted links to
> related work. The important question of wh
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 12:12:02PM -0700, Dean Arnold wrote:
> Tim Bunce wrote:
>
> >And nobody mentioned JDBC as a potential model. Odd that.
>
> I was sorely tempted to do so (and did mention it a few times in
> my posts, along w/ ODBC and ADO.NET), but there are some thin
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 01:16:19PM -0700, Darren Duncan wrote:
> At 4:04 PM +0100 8/16/05, Tim Bunce wrote:
> >I was a little dissapointed that there wasn't greater focus on using
> >Perl6 features - especially as it would have helped kick-start my own
> >understand
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 03:58:54PM -0400, John Siracusa wrote:
> On 8/16/05, Tim Bunce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was a little dissapointed that there wasn't greater focus on using
> > Perl6 features - especially as it would have helped kick-start my own
> &g
On Sat, Jul 09, 2005 at 10:25:32PM +1000, Adam Kennedy wrote:
> >In particular, the DBI must not mandate impossible levels of support from
> >the drivers. It will benefit you nothing if the DBI is immaculate and
> >wonderful and incredibly all-singing and all-dancing, but no-one can write
> >a d
Anyone done any work on parsing Java interface definitions?
And, ideally, translating them into roughly equivalent Perl 6?
Tim.
On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 01:06:02AM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> Once upon a time I said:
I'm back now and, after digesting a small mountain of non-DBI related
emails, I'll start digesting all your replies and getting up to speed
with Perl 6.
Many thanks to all who replied on and off-list.
Tim.
u.
Tim.
[1]
https://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=Contribution%20Info&selfund=102
>
>
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: Tim Bunce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 7:06 PM
> > To: perl6-language@perl.org; dbi-users@perl.o
Once upon a time I said:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/perl.dbi.users/msg/caf189d7b404a003?dmode=source&hl=en
and wrote
http://search.cpan.org/~timb/DBI/Roadmap.pod
which yielded:
https://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=Fund+Drive+Details&selfund=102
(A little over $500 o
So far http://pleac.sourceforge.net/ has comparative Perl Cookbook
example for these languages:
- perl, 100.00% done (naturally, since they're from the book)
- python, 63.43% done
- ruby, 62.43% done
- guile, 30.00% done
- merd, 28.86% done
- ada, 26.00% done
- tcl, 25.00% done
- ocaml, 24
On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 04:47:40PM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
>
> =head1 Compact structs
>
> A class whose attributes are all low-level types can behave as
> a struct.
"all low-level types" or "all low-level *sized* types"?
(I'm wondering about char arrays, string and pointers.)
I presume a char[
On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 10:52:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
>
> My console can be any of several platforms - in the last couple of weeks
> it has been a Linux box, a Windows PC, a Mac, a Sun workstation, and a
> real vt320 attached to a Sun. My mail sits on a hosted Linux box. To
> read i
On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 10:51:04PM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
>
> Yes, that's in the works. The plan is to have four Unicode support levels.
> These would be declared by lexically scoped declarations:
>
> use bytes 'ISO-8859-1';
> use codepoints;
> use graphemes;
> use letters 'Tu
Perhaps someone could post a summary of how the issue has been
tackled in other languages that support a similar concept.
I've not seen one (but then I've not been paying attention, so
forgive me if it's need done already, and perhaps point me to a url).
Tim.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 05:48:58PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
>
> But then I'm one of those freaks who likes the idea of keeping core Perl 6
> generic, extensible, clean and small, and letting all the clever stuff go
> into extensions, a heretical position which is way out of favour with the
> mo
On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:04:14PM -0700, Michael Lazzaro wrote:
>
> *: (undefness and properties lost)
>
>Using/converting an uppercase type as/to a lowercase (primitive)
> type is silently allowed. If you're sending an Int to something that
> requires an C, you know that the 'something
On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 11:14:15AM +0100, Sam Vilain wrote:
> "Sean O'Rourke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > languages/perl6/README sort of hides it, but it does say that "If you have
> > Perl <= 5.005_03, "$a += 3" may fail to parse." I guess we can upgrade
> > that to "if you have < 5.6, you
On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 02:29:08PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 7:18 PM +0100 7/11/02, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> >On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 10:41:20AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >> The place where you'll run into problems in where you have multiple
> >> variables of the same name at the same lev
On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 09:20:01PM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:23:24PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > > Hopefully the Cabal [2] can debunk that.
> > [snip]
> > > [2] Of which there is none.
>
On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:23:24PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>
> I'm also trying to think of more bits to throw in. Particularly in terms of
> the OO system, this being a conference about OO. From what I've heard so
> far, Perl 6's OO system will be largely playing catch up with other
> l
On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 12:00:13AM +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> |On 6/4/02 12:22 PM, David Wheeler wrote:
> |> I think that if we can agree to forego backwards compatibility, we might
> |> also be in a better position to set up a CP6AN with much better quality
> |> control. All of the most
On Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 11:33:06AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 2:26 PM +0100 4/26/02, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 01:25:15PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >> At 12:36 PM -0400 4/23/02, Buddha Buck wrote:
> >> >OK, but that limits you to the, um, 24 standard levels of
> >>
On Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 10:29:58AM -0400, Aaron Sherman wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-04-25 at 18:20, Damian Conway wrote:
> > Miko O'Sullivan wrote:
>
> > > before { ... } # run before first iteration,
> > > # only if there is at least one iteration
> >
> > Larry is still con
Early on in the life of Perl 5 Larry adopted the convention that
subroutines that Perl calls automatically for you should have
all-caps names[*].
I'm not uncomfortable with the apparent try/CATCH inconsistency.
I suspect that having CATCH etc. be lowercase would create a greater
inconsistency in
On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:44:25PM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> Dan Sugalski writes:
> : I hadn't really considered having a separate module for each type of site
> : policy decision.
>
> Er, neither had I. Each site only has one policy file. I just want it
> named after the actual site, not som
On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 02:49:07PM -0500, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> I don't get it.
>
> The first and foremost duty of Perl 6 is to parse and execute Perl 6.
> If it doesn't, it's not Perl 6. I will call this the Prime Directive.
Great, but don't loose sight of the fact that a key feature of "
On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 12:58:23PM -0400, Andy Dougherty wrote:
>
> Let's leave -e alone for now and worry about handling specific
> incompatibilities when we in fact have some specific incompatibilities to
> worry about.
Amen.
Tim.
On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:35:59AM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 02:17 PM 2/5/2001 -0200, Branden wrote:
> > > I think that, if you want this behavior, a module that implements it
> > > would be just fine. (Why muck with "use"?) To use a module name
> > > that seems like it could fit this purp
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:47:43AM -0500, John Porter wrote:
> And isn't this rather off-topic for this list?
> Sounds more like an internals thing...
No. I think this is an area where the language should lead.
I also think we need to define what an 'interface definition' should
look like and/or
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:02:31PM +, Tim Bunce wrote:
> of the Foo interface (one SX and one pure-perl, for example).
s/SX/XS/ of course.
Tim.
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 10:14:20AM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> Since everyone's spinning aimlessly around, I'll throw out something for
> everyone to think about, and perhaps we can get a PDD out of it.
>
> One of the features of perl 6 is going to be the ability to automatically
> use a modul
On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 11:49:51AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>
> David> I was primarily addressing the issue of the P5P allowing the
> David> language to be controlled by corporate presence through a
> David> purchased pumking, and not taking responsibility for the
> David> language suffic
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 05:23:04PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> OK, weekly report. Ugh.
Shouldn't these to go -announce as well?
Tim.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 09:25:34AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> : Yep. Or more generally "Standardize Perl on all platforms to one
> : common time epoch" and reccommend the Unix epoch since it's so
> : widespread. :-)
>
> Oh, gee, where's your sense of history? (As in
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:21:38AM -0400, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 11:40:09PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:57:27AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> > > http://windows.oreilly.com/news/hejlsberg_0800.html
> >
> > Impressive. Quite deeply im
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:57:27AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> raptor writes:
> : http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/rt/07282000/transcript.html
>
> That's a good summary of what we've been thinking. Here's another
> article that talks about a lot of the things we *should* be thinking.
> In fa
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 11:25:52AM +0100, Tim Bunce wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 12:16:33AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >
> > I'd actually like to see some work on the shared memory and IPC stuff on
> > the language list--it'd be nice to have them in as most
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 12:16:33AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>
> I'd actually like to see some work on the shared memory and IPC stuff on
> the language list--it'd be nice to have them in as mostly-primitives,
> though in a more platform-neutral way.
"mostly-primitives" sounds like a fudge. L
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 10:47:24PM +0100, Alan Burlison wrote:
>
> I suspect reorganising the data structures to be cache
> friendly would gain more benefit than avoiding a few inline bit
> twiddles.
We should do both.
Tim.
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 09:25:33PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> Alan Burlison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >No, I disagree. Perl gains a lot of its expressive power from being lax
> >about typing. I suspect it will also impose an unacceptable overhed for
> >the vast majority who don't w
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 05:23:27PM +0200, Dominic Dunlop wrote:
> At 15:19 +0100 2000-08-01, Tim Bunce wrote:
> > >RegEx (internals?)
> >
> >Yes, Yes, Yes.
>
> I could argue for regex being language too:
> If the language group is
> going to give eac
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 10:34:51PM +0900, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 07:29:05AM -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> > I suggest that the language list discuss this very matter: what
> > Perl really *is*, so that we know the tenets and principles against
> > which proposals can be
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 06:31:45AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>
> I disagree with keeping the same name as a Unix function, but having a
> radically different calling sequence or return value. If you want a
> new interface, *name* a new interface.
Amen!
Tim.
On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 07:03:42AM -0400, Grant M. wrote:
> Just trying to catch up. This is where I understand the discussion
> stands:
> INTERNALS(?)
> modular language:
>Scanner/Symbol Table/Parser/Executor
Internals.
>Standard Functions separate from core (moving to langu
On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 10:42:54PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >
> > > existence of a $^T variable for controlling tainting in the same way
> > > that $^W controls warnings.
> >
> > So put in an RFC. :)
>
> Dan-
>
> Ask and ye shall receive...in POD format ala Tim...
I
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