On 5 Aug 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
> This and other RFCs are available on the web at
> http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/
>
> =head1 TITLE
>
> Standardise Handling Of Abnormal Numbers Like Infinities And NaNs
>
Excellent idea.
>
> =head1 REFERENCES
>
> Math::Complex
You might wa
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Tuomas Lukka wrote:
> > Both of these are language related. Is ther really nothing in the
> > internals that we need to make pdl better?
>
> One important thing that I don't have time to write an RFC for: allow XS
> to make dynamically loaded modules' jump tableable automati
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/
=head1 TITLE
Implementation of Threads in Perl
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Bryan C. Warnock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Aug 2000
Version: 2
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 1
=head1 ABST
John Tobey writes:
> OK. Ask, cancel that request. Sorry.
In the future, it's best to address your list requests directly
to the working group chair. They'll decide and ask Ask. In fact,
asking Ask could probably be done offline.
Nat
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
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=head1 TITLE
Standardise Handling Of Abnormal Numbers Like Infinities And NaNs
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
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=head1 TITLE
Structured Internal Representation of Filenames
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 36
=head
On 4 Aug 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
> This proposal introduces a new keyword to perl, "co", as a complement
> to "sub". A subroutine is defined thusly:
>
> co foo { ... }
>
> Coroutines can also be closures:
>
> my $x = co { ... }
Does this really require a new keyword? Why not do
At 09:38 PM 8/4/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >$foo = 12;
> >$bar = something();
> >$bar = $foo;
> >
> > could work out to:
> >
> >$foo = $bar = 12;
> >something();
>
>If $foo is a lexical variable and it hasn't been aliased then
>you might be able to do that
Dan Sugalski wrote:
>$foo = 12;
>$bar = something();
>$bar = $foo;
>
> could work out to:
>
>$foo = $bar = 12;
>something();
If $foo is a lexical variable and it hasn't been aliased then
you might be able to do that optimization. The following is just
as good and safer:
$fo
[CC'd to perl6-build]
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 03:25 PM 8/4/00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Sounds good. Here's a slight modification: perllib.db is a cache;
> > > lookups take place as normal, but then any new information is
OK. Ask, cancel that request. Sorry.
-John
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 02:45 PM 8/4/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
> >I guess, more than establishing a working group, I'm hoping to siphon
> >GC debates out of the more general internals list, since a lot of
> >people love discussin
Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
> <...>
> Also, you can specify a non-default step size:
>
> @pdl(1:9:2, 1:9:2); # (1,1) (3,1) (5,1) (7,1) (9,1) (1,3) (3,3) ...
>
> Although I'm not sure how frequently custom step sizes are used in PDL
> code...
>
More generally, we need to be able to specify:
- Sli
Ken Fox wrote:
> > $a = sum(@b*@c+@d)
>
> I'm not strong in math, but I do remember a bit about row and column
> vectors. Isn't @b*@c ambiguous? Shouldn't it normally be interpreted
> as a dot product, i.e. treat all vectors the same?
>
It depends on what perl6-language comes up with. Probably
Bradley M. Kuhn writes:
> I wrote http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/13.pod to propose that we create a
> licensing working group. It needs someone in authority to create the
> working group. Unfortunately, I have yet to find out how the process works
> to create new top-level working groups.
>
> Of
Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >No, it's a CPAN module.
> Oh, good. Someone has a licensing list going--somewhere.
I wrote http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/13.pod to propose that we create a
licensing working group. It needs someone in authority to create the
working group. Unfortunately, I have yet
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
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=head1 TITLE
A proposed internal base format for perl variables
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 04, 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 35
=he
At 03:25 PM 8/4/00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Sounds good. Here's a slight modification: perllib.db is a cache;
> > lookups take place as normal, but then any new information is written
> > into the cache. The cache is invalided every $configurable
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sounds good. Here's a slight modification: perllib.db is a cache;
> lookups take place as normal, but then any new information is written
> into the cache. The cache is invalided every $configurable period.
Putting on my sysadmin hat, anything that a p
At 05:33 PM 8/4/00 -0400, John Porter wrote:
> > perl punts. We require that the code we interface to defines a
> > dispatch function for each object, and we then just call the dispatch
> > function with enough information for it to Do The Right Thing.
> >
> > Perl will define some generic convers
> perl punts. We require that the code we interface to defines a
> dispatch function for each object, and we then just call the dispatch
> function with enough information for it to Do The Right Thing.
>
> Perl will define some generic conversion
> routines (to int, float, and string) which the f
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
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=head1 TITLE
A method of allowing foreign objects in perl
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 02, 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 32
=head1 AB
Here's a reference that I found to TILs.
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threaded-code.html
Does anyone recall an article on Machine language threading? It
avoided the overhead of a dispatch loop by replacing the threading
pointers with actual machine calls. (Could it have been a
At 11:24 AM 8/4/00 -0800, Michael Fowler wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 03:13:24PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
> > co foo { ... }
>
> > my $x = co { ... }
> >
> >$y = <|foo>;
> >
> >print |$x "hello, world\n";
> >
> > Inside a coroutine, the meanings of "<>" and the default file
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 03:13:24PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
> co foo { ... }
> my $x = co { ... }
>
>$y = <|foo>;
>
>print |$x "hello, world\n";
>
> Inside a coroutine, the meanings of "<>" and the default file
> descriptor for print, printf, etc. are overloaded.
Is it ju
At 02:45 PM 8/4/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
>I guess, more than establishing a working group, I'm hoping to siphon
>GC debates out of the more general internals list, since a lot of
>people love discussing GC at great length, and I don't expect that
>debate to have much relevance to the rest of th
I don't think so. I think the db should reflect the installation. The
sysadmin should be able to uninstall something. Expecting a file and
not finding it should be a fatal error. And it shouldn't keep looking.
Hmm, some care will have to be taken for setuid, etc.
> "SC" == Simon Cozens <[E
> What I'm planning to RFC is a simple format() built-in (probably
> in a pragma) very similar to the form() subroutine described in:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/TPC/2000/Autoformat/paper.html
Damian
At 02:48 PM 8/4/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
>Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yup, and I realized one of my big problems to GCs that move memory
> > (references that are pointers and such) really isn't, if we keep the
> > two-level variable structure that we have now. The 'main' SV stru
> >> It definitely is, since formats do things that can't be done in modules.
> >
> >Such as???
>
> Well, the easy binding of variables for later use. When one declares a
> format, variables in it are saved for later use without needing refs.
> Formats are sort of like
At 04:00 AM 8/5/00 +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
>> It definitely is, since formats do things that can't be done in modules.
>
>Such as???
Well, the easy binding of variables for later use. When one declares a
format, variables in it are saved for later use without needing refs.
Formats are s
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yup, and I realized one of my big problems to GCs that move memory
> (references that are pointers and such) really isn't, if we keep the
> two-level variable structure that we have now. The 'main' SV structure
> won't move, while the guts that the equi
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This seems a bit premature, given that we haven't actually come up with
> even a framework for an API, or hashed out much on the format of variables
> or the interpreter structure. (Nor the threading or event stuff...)
>
> Are you comfortable with a sho
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> Not gonna happen. Tk and signals, at the very least, will see to that.
DS> Coroutines are also an awfully limited threading mechanism, and I think
DS> they'd have the same problems that threads have (or the use of multiple
DS>
> It definitely is, since formats do things that can't be done in modules.
Such as???
> If they yank formats out (which is just dandy by me) that means
> that some means of providing format's functionality needs has to
> be designed in.
I'm working on it.
Damian
At 01:17 PM 8/4/00 +0500, Tom Scola wrote:
> >[I think this belongs on the language list, FWIW, Cc'd there]
> >
> >I like this, but I'd like to see this, inter-thread queues, and events
>all
> >use the same communication method. Overload filehandles to pass events
>
> >around instead, so:
>
>I'm p
At 12:31 PM 8/4/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>DS> This seems a bit premature, given that we haven't actually come up with
>DS> even a framework for an API, or hashed out much on the format of
>variables
>DS> or the interpreter structure
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 01:35 AM 8/4/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> >Simon Cozens wrote:
> > > Ref counting isn't garbage collection.
> > > http://www.jwz.org/doc/gc.html
> >
> >Please explain that to Richard Jones and Rafael Lins who have
> >written a beautiful book surveying g
I've implemented a set of GC algorithms that could move objects in
the ISE Eiffel runtime back in 1991-92.
The result was well worth the effort, but it was a can of worms.
:.,$s/Eiffel/Perl/g
Everything in the Eiffel world worked great, but Eiffel has provision
to call C routines, that
>I don't see the need for a new keyword. An attribute should be fine
>
> sub foo : coroutine { }
>
>Would do quite well. It would fit with the :method attribute, and
>a possible :lvalue attribute.
That would be fine.
>Anyway, isn't what you are proposing more of a generator/sink rather
>th
At 12:35 PM 8/4/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>DS> The language semantics of tie strongly impact the internals. tie() is
>DS> basically a declaration that the rules are completely different (and
>DS> unknown at compile time) for the tied
>[I think this belongs on the language list, FWIW, Cc'd there]
>
>I like this, but I'd like to see this, inter-thread queues, and events
all
>use the same communication method. Overload filehandles to pass events
>around instead, so:
I'm proposing that events and threads be dropped in lieu of c
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:21:38AM -0400, Joshua N Pritikin wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 11:40:09PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 10:57:27AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
> > > http://windows.oreilly.com/news/hejlsberg_0800.html
> >
> > Impressive. Quite deeply im
I don't see the need for a new keyword. An attribute should be fine
sub foo : coroutine { }
Would do quite well. It would fit with the :method attribute, and
a possible :lvalue attribute.
Anyway, isn't what you are proposing more of a generator/sink rather
than a coroutine? I understood
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> The language semantics of tie strongly impact the internals. tie() is
DS> basically a declaration that the rules are completely different (and
DS> unknown at compile time) for the tied variable. Shoots down optimization a
DS> bunch, si
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> This seems a bit premature, given that we haven't actually come up with
DS> even a framework for an API, or hashed out much on the format of variables
DS> or the interpreter structure. (Nor the threading or event stuff...)
Either the A
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> At 06:51 AM 8/4/00 -0700, Benjamin Stuhl wrote:
>> This actually leads to a much more general question, namely
>> passing of arrays to functions. For ppcode at least and
>> probably any code using the perl API, it should be possible
>> an
(Chaim, please can you *not* CC me stuff on a list you know I read! It's
not as if we don't get too much mail already from this. :)
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:19:30PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> Then how about a perllib.db. Pre-digested search paths. What %INC would
> look like if everything an
Then let me propose (i.e. throw up the balloon and duck while everyone
shoots at it).
Then how about a perllib.db. Pre-digested search paths. What %INC would
look like if everything and the kitchen sink were loaded. No parsing,
nothing but straight forward lookup code.
If not found, or an entry
At 09:04 AM 8/4/00 -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> > I like this, but I'd like to see this, inter-thread queues, and events all
> > use the same communication method. Overload filehandles to pass events
> > around instead, so:
> >
> >my $thing = <$handle>;
> >
> > could read a record from a file,
> I like this, but I'd like to see this, inter-thread queues, and events all
> use the same communication method. Overload filehandles to pass events
> around instead, so:
>
>my $thing = <$handle>;
>
> could read a record from a file, or get an event from the event queue, or
> receive some d
At 03:13 PM 8/4/00 +, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:
>Coroutines for Perl
[I think this belongs on the language list, FWIW, Cc'd there]
I like this, but I'd like to see this, inter-thread queues, and events all
use the same communication method. Overload filehandles to pass events
around inste
This and other RFCs are available on the web at
http://tmtowtdi.perl.org/rfc/
=head1 TITLE
Coroutines for Perl
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Tom Scola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Number: 27
=head1 ABSTRACT
Two motavations for the
At 08:41 AM 8/4/00 -0400, Bryan C. Warnock wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > > "s" == skud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > s> Up for grabs:
> > s> -
> > s> Formats out of core
> >
>
>Somehow, I missed this message.
>
>I don't think that's a language iss
At 04:37 AM 8/4/00 -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >Point taken. But part of the goal was moving a lot of stuff out of CORE
> >and making Perl faster. New features are great, but we should figure out
> >whether or not they're truly CORE-worthy. Sticking it in a pragma like
> >strict helps to solv
At 01:35 AM 8/4/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
>Simon Cozens wrote:
> > Ref counting isn't garbage collection.
> > http://www.jwz.org/doc/gc.html
>
>Please explain that to Richard Jones and Rafael Lins who have
>written a beautiful book surveying garbage collectors.
Title! Title, ISBN, and publisher, p
At 03:59 PM 8/3/00 -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> > Several people have requested strong typing as a feature, but have been
> shot
> > down with reasons such as "it's un-Perl-like", with an added "it'll slow
> > everything down for those who don't want it".
>
>Definitely.
Maybe. And it may speed t
At 06:51 AM 8/4/00 -0700, Benjamin Stuhl wrote:
>This actually leads to a much more general question, namely
>passing of arrays to functions. For ppcode at least and
>probably any code using the perl API, it should be possible
>and IMHO desirable to push the AV* (or equivalent), rather
>than expan
At 09:42 AM 8/4/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote:
>Oops, I guess this should be contingent on Dan Sugalski's approval.
This seems a bit premature, given that we haven't actually come up with
even a framework for an API, or hashed out much on the format of variables
or the interpreter structure. (Nor
Jeremy Howard wrote:
> $a = sum(@b*@c+@d)
I'm not strong in math, but I do remember a bit about row and column
vectors. Isn't @b*@c ambiguous? Shouldn't it normally be interpreted
as a dot product, i.e. treat all vectors the same?
> The normal problem with this type of structure is that the prev
> The normal problem with this type of structure is that
> the previous
> statement would create 2 array copies, and 3 loops for
> most compilers. In
> perl speak, it might look like:
> $dummy1[$_] = $b[$_]*$c[$_] for (0..$#b-1);
> $dummy2[$_] = $d[$_]+$dummy1[$_] for (0..$#dummy1-1);
> $sum+=$_ f
Oops, I guess this should be contingent on Dan Sugalski's approval.
-John
John Tobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ask, can we please have the following list:
>
> Name: perl6-internals-gc
> Chairs: John Tobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Ken Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> De
> "BCW" == Bryan C Warnock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
BCW> On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> > "s" == skud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
s> Up for grabs:
s> -
s> Formats out of core
>>
BCW> Somehow, I missed this message.
BCW> I don't think that's a language is
Ask, can we please have the following list:
Name: perl6-internals-gc
Chairs: John Tobey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ken Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Deadline: Conterminous with perl6-internals (currently 13
October 2000)
Mission:Determine which g
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:13:44AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> Well, the issue is how much time is spent opening directories and checking
> for entries. Also on an NFS mounted file system, the directory has to be
> re-requested.
It may take just as long to parse the kpathsea configs, grovel thr
> "SC" == Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
SC> On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 09:12:45PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
>> And while were here, does anyone understand kpathsea?
SC> Yes.
>> Would it be a win. I think it would.
SC> There's been some amount of talk on one of the sekrit cabal Te
I'm a bit unsure of where to put this... it's a question of implementation,
but of a feature that is still being discussed still in perl6-language...
Let me know if this is the wrong forum or the wrong time...
There's been a lot of discussion about reduce/fold on perl6-language. The
details are s
"Bryan C. Warnock" wrote:
> It seems to me that whether something is CORE-worthy is really a
> decision for the internals team. Whether something should be a valid,
> meaningful construct in Perl, regardless of the implementation, is the
> focus of the language team.
The CORE of the Perl languag
On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > "s" == skud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> s> Up for grabs:
> s> -
> s> Formats out of core
>
Somehow, I missed this message.
I don't think that's a language issue. Whether Perl continues to
support formats certainly is, but
Internals added to cc:
On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> Point taken. But part of the goal was moving a lot of stuff out of CORE
> and making Perl faster. New features are great, but we should figure out
> whether or not they're truly CORE-worthy. Sticking it in a pragma like
> strict h
Ken Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Tobey wrote:
> > I think we are trying to accommodate any of several GC systems to be
> > selected amongst in future.
>
> Then the Perl API needs to allow for the GC to move objects. If that
> can't happen, the majority of interesting collectors can't be
>Point taken. But part of the goal was moving a lot of stuff out of CORE
>and making Perl faster. New features are great, but we should figure out
>whether or not they're truly CORE-worthy. Sticking it in a pragma like
>strict helps to solve this issue, but as always TMTOWTDI.
I find the notion t
hi,
it will be good if all these RFC are put somewhere on the WEB (we can't
follow all those mailing lists if the amout of posts stay the same :") )
also in this way we will get broader picture what is happenning..
=
iVAN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
Dan Sugalski wrote:
DS> TheObj *foo;
DS> SV *new_sv;
DS> foo = new TheObj("A parameter");
DS> sv = perl_new_sv();
DS> perl_make_sv_object(sv, "Some::Package", foo, &dispatch_routine,
DS> &destroy_routine);
DS>
DS> perl_return(perl_make_re
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