I have lurked for several months now, and find that I can hold my tongue
no longer. The 'discussion' of overloading '+', to include concatenation,
suffers from a general degeneration into implementation details, where
linguistic sentiment should reign.
The contention that '+' should be overload
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:38:50PM -0700, Brent Dax wrote:
[snip four examples are obvious ...]
>>> $a."b";
If a has a method 'foo' such that
$a.foo
is the standard invocation, it would be nice when $b = 'foo' for
$a.foo === $a."$b" === $a.$b
How I see the . operato
Dave has left a new comment on your post "Register allocation in a PIR
compiler":
Hope you don't mind if I mention a couple of points. Presumably
these "freed" registers are being spilled to memory, meaning that they
are assigned to a stack location. I don't see ho
Dave has left a new comment on your post "Register allocation in a PIR
compiler":
Never mind. Something about this was nagging me, so I went back and
read it again, and it looks like you are not spilling registers at all,
but just reusing dead registers. So my comment doesn't app
lar expression. (Remember: A regexp
> interpolates first, then compiles the pattern).
Umm...with all due respect, did you read the RFC? Because what I
proposed does not eliminate any functionality.
Dave
tfalls created;
in this case, I don't think it does. The potential problems of being able
to assign precedence as you see fit (talk about action at a distance!) are
enormous, and it does not seem to lend the same kind of elegant power
that, for example, Damian's HOFs do.
Dave
Arrow for the
command history."
I'm not saying that outside tools shouldn't be built to provide
_better_ versions of the standard behavior, or nicer UIs. I'm just saying
that the basic versions are not acceptable, and should be improved and
standardized.
Dave
what like a coderef, but without a required deref.
Dave
or example "a.*b" can
> match "a foo b". But \1 only allows literal strings. If $1 captured
I don't believe it matters...my version of $1 works exactly like
the current \1 and my $/[1] works exactly like the current $1.
Dave
s you want), then you could say that,
if the first character after the { is a P, it means "in the previous regex
match."
Dave
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote:
> If $1 could be made to work properly on the LHS of s///, I'd vote for
> that being The Way.
That was pretty much my thought?
nd eliminating all deprecated features...let's
get rid of \n as backreference notation.
Dave
nt "Hello!"; # flushes %HTTP first
I like this a lot, but you need to make sure that it flushes the
hash in the right order if multiple keys are present.
Dave
To my mind, things would be a lot clearer if my and local were to change
places - but I can see why that would not be a good thing.
If it's not too late for suggestions for renaming local, what about
'override'.
Dave.
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Fowler&quo
multaneously put to rest both David Grove's
concerns about elitism and Dan Sugalski's concerns about lack of planning?
Dave
or (probably more common)
"we'd like to do that, but we can't for reasons XYZ," that would go a long
way towards making the community feel invovled. Perhaps this duty could
rotate, so that various design-committee voices would be heard on the
outside.
Dave
SARILY to do with the almighty dollar, and stating that it
does is simply clouding the issue.
This thread has gone on for a long time, and is starting to repeat
itself...could we please let it go?
Dave Storrs
hunk. No, you may not play with it."
Out of curiousity, when might such a situation arise? When you
are embedding C in Perl, perhaps?
Dave
later.
Dave Storrs
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>int perl6_parse(PerlInterp *interp,
>void *source,
>int flags,
>void *extra_pointer);
On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 09:51 AM 11/29/00 -0800, Dave Storrs wrote:
> >I have a feeling this is a stupid question, but I have to ask anyway.
> >
> >Do we really need to pass in a PerlInterp pointer? Or can perl6_parse
> >just create one for
help set up the infrastructure.
However, we should move carefully, because it could be a very good thing
or a very harmful thing depending on how we implement it.
So, are other people actually interested in this, at least enough to open
a new thread on it?
Dave Storrs
data in Perl
(with pack, unpack, vec, etc) that I intend to submit to perl.com.
Dave
at's largely
irrelevant.
2. That AS somehow had a vested interest in this early release and
knowingly forced a buggy 5.6.0 on the community.
Even agreeing with #1, I have yet to see any evidence on #2.
And mind you, I am very anti-corporate and skeptical of all that
corporations do. Yet
tion of influence in the community is obviously acting in the best
interests of their employer (without taking into account the community's
interests) then they should be asked to leave the community.
I just don't see how this particular problem could be solved through
licensing.
-dave
/*==
www.urth.org
We await the New Sun
==*/
we wanted to get really
fancy, then the value of as an int could be the number of
places of accuracy that would be returned.
Dave
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Tim Bunce wrote:
> Since this thread is in the mood for quotes, here's one I'm fond of...
> It goes something along the lines of:
>
> Any fool can create a complicated system.
> The real skill is in making a simple one.
Ok, if we're all contributing qu
re needs to be a way to figure out which to load. Hopefully the
smallest/quickest.
And code that does this:
use CGI qw( param header heavy_lifting );
Would get CGI.pm.
If the loading is done based on interface implementation (there's a nice
nebulous idea) this could be very slick (and very hai
s installed. Anything else
is madness (ok, my idea is madness too).
-dave
/*==
www.urth.org
We await the New Sun
==*/
question is how we define an interface (as opposed to how we
name it).
-dave
/*==
www.urth.org
We await the New Sun
==*/
equest other versions.
I'm sure this idea can be improved on, but it's a first cut. What do
people think?
Dave
On Sun, 4 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>>>> "Dave" == Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> Dave> When you want to install a new version, you simply prepend it
> Dave> with its version number (or insert it at appropriate pl
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 01:32 PM 2/20/2001 -0600, Dave Rolsky wrote:
> >
> >Hmm, I think of Python as more Babbit than Mahler. Perl is ... John Cage?
>
> Would that mean that perl 6 corresponds to 4'33"? (If I have the composers
> righ
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> valuable and interesting. (aside: Python is Mahler. Discuss.) So while we may
Hmm, I think of Python as more Babbit than Mahler. Perl is ... John Cage?
-dave
/*==
www.urth.org
We await the New Sun
==*/
to keep track of,
it could potentially represent a security hole, it's an
"action-at-a-distance" effect, and there will still need to be some
builtin "default" switchs (or lack thereof) to cover what happens when the
config file doesn't exist or can't be read.
Dave
hes and pipelines (avoid those branches, man!),
are globals Good or Evil (or Chaotic Neutral...).
- someone would need to write this.
Waddayafink? If people dont object, I'll begin drafting.
* Dave Mitchell, Senior Technical Consultant
* Fretwell-Downing Informatics Ltd, UK. [EMAIL PROT
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> doodled:
> At 11:09 PM 3/23/2001 +, Simon Cozens wrote:
> >For instance, chr() will produce Unicode codepoints. But you can pretend that
> >they're ASCII codepoints, it's only the EBCDIC folk that'll get hurt. I hope
> >and suspect there'll be an equivalent of
7;)
represent( $foo, 'UTF-8D')
represent( $foo, 'UTF-16C')
represent( $foo, 'UTF-16D') ...etc
Maybe a couple of extra switchs on regexen as well, to force the matched
string (and any captured substrings) to be in a particular encoding.
Dave Storrs
Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> opined:
> >Either run pod through a pod puller before the C preprocessor gets to
> >the code, or figure out a set of macros that can quote and ignore pod.
> >
> >The second is Yet Another Halting Problem so we go with the first?
> >
> >Which means a little prog
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 02:58 PM 3/26/2001 +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> >Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> opined:
> > > Perhaps we could teach pod that /* was alias for =pod
> > > and */ an alias for =cut ?
> >
> >or
y guidelines
* Performance guidelines
Based on your comments above (which I hearily agree with), I guess
we can safely dispense with that last entry.
Dave M.
always put -ws on your
shebang line if you don't want to type "module main."
Dave
extreme.
You are correct, but being backwards compatible is unlikely to
_cost_ us adherents and might well gain us some. *shrug*
Dave
bose.
For that matter, we could insist that all macros and public structs
typedefs etc have a standard prefix too. This happily avoids all
possible clashes with system and other header files, but would involve
an awful lot more typing :-(
Opinions, anyone ?
Dave.
, but it needs to know what it's getting. Also,
the flag would be a good choice in that it's very human-readable.
Dave
PerlFP, etc.
Dave
emoves
any residual risk of name clashes within those bits where the shortcut *is*
defined.
Note that internally within perlio.c etc, most stuff seems prefixed with
PerlIO without apparent difficulty
Yours in easer anticipation!
Dave M.
x27;s imagination;
I'm relaxed).
Dave
Apologies all...I have the document, but I'm having trouble getting it out
of my computer. I don't have Internet access yet and my floppy drive is
refusing to read. I'll see if I can get the printer hooked up tonight,
print the thing out, retype it at work tomorrow, and send it in then.
Dave
e syntax
Con:
- You need to know whether you are looking at Perl5 or Perl6 before you
know how to read the operator (raises problems both for programmers and
for p526 translator script)
- Some of the permutations (e.g. ->= ) look terrible.
Dave
out sacrificing the normal meanings of any of the other operators
for concat.
Dave Hartnoll.
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 11:53:33AM +0100, Dave Hartnoll wrote:
> > What about using double-dot as the string concat operator:
> >
> > P5P6
> > ->.
> > . ..
> > .=..= (or =.. for concat after)
>
> You have missed a row for what th
I wrote..
> ..(I would have suggested -> but that
> introduces problems with it meaning the same as comma in some situations.)
Ignore that. I'm getting confused with => sometimes meaning the same as
comma. I think I'll quit now before I dig myself any deeper :-)
Dave.
=head1 The Perl6 Debugger
=head2 Perl-level Debugging
=head3 Existing Functionality
The following is a list of the functionality in the existing Perl5
debugger; this functionality should, of course, be maintained for
backwards compatibility.
=over 4
=item T
Stack trace.
=item
Great, thanks very much.
Dave
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> > > see it.) The debugger must be able to see two scopes at the same time:
> > > its own and the debuggee's.
> >
> > Could you expand on this?
>
> http://www.xray.mp
a pager.
Okay...this is exactly the reason that I suggested including a
default pager, but it would probably actually be better if "h" gave a
short summary and "h h" gave the complete story, requiring a pager...which
would, of course, be supplied.
Dave
ywhere)
- windowing system a la Emacs (ability to create, subdivide, and
resize multiple views inside the window
- hooks so that a full-bore GUI can easily wrap itself around the
debugger engine
Dave
Please, can't I have just a little PERIL?
< /ACCENT>
Dave
g with the functionality is a convenient "handle" for figuring out
what internals the debugger will need.
Dave
tantiated from that module,
which is worse because it leaves fewer traces by not writing to disk) from
some far corner of Script Kiddie Land.
Dave
tm], evolution would be nonempowering...which is different than
deempowering; things could just remain in a steady state.
It's still a pretty arrogant claim, no matter which way you slice
it.
Dave
=head2 CURRENT
Maintainer: Dave Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Class: Internals
PDD Number: TBD
Version: 1
Status: Proposed
Last Modified: 7 May 2001
PDD Format: 1
Language: English
=head2 HISTORY
Based on an earlier draft which covered only code comments.
=head1 CHANGES
> I see nothing about namespacing, e.g. Perl_
All entities should be prefixed with the name of the subsystem they appear
in, eg C, C. They should be further prefixed
with the word 'perl' if they have external visibility or linkage,
eg
perlpmc_foo()
struct perlio_bar
typedef struct perlio_bar
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave Mitchell writes:
> : | my personal pet peeve: death to dSP and friends !!
...
> I think that's silly. You misuse a variable that requires an auto, the
> compile dies, that's all. And macros can be very useful for an abstr
And there was me thinking the shiny ball must be a camel dropping
Just a quick obeservation:
Given the radicalness of the changes suggested by apo 2, I think it's
fair to say that the proportion of Perl 5 code that will run unchanged
on a Perl 6 interpreter will be heading into single-figure percentages.
While I personally think this will be price well worth pa
Since we all seem to be agreed that macros that Do Strange Things are evil,
but are a necessary evil in certain extensibility situations,
and since Larry choked on my choice of naming scheme for macros
which declare variables for you, here's a slighly more modest proposal:
=item *
A macro that m
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Uri Guttman wrote:
> >>>>> "DS" == Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> DS> There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
> DS> signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be p
There have been multiple mentions of the fact that we intend to have safe
signals in Perl 6. I was wondering if it will also be possible to have
more than one alarm() set at a time, or some other mechanism for having
multiple pending signals.
Dave
< QUOTE LARRY >
Dave Storrs writes:
: You know, it would be really cool if you specify the number of
: lines you wanted like so:
:
: <$STDIN # One line
: *<$STDIN# All available lines
: *4<$STDIN # Next 4 lin
ith Perl Mongers == Perl Mongoose as well :-)
Dave.
> Briefly: We want the Perl 6 runtime to be an equivalent of the Microsoft
> CLR, so that if you can somehow get bytecode onto it - from whatever
> language - you can run it. So we've got some bytecode that perl can run.
> Now think about what B::Deparse does.
I knew the intention was to go the
0-5 lines
*&mySub($bar)<$STDIN# mySub returns num, gets that many
Dave
> The RFC pleads for a community spirit from ORA. Barring that, it seeks a
new
> symbol for the community entirely
I'd suggest a mongoose - eats poisonous snakes for breakfast.
There's a sort of tie-in with Perl Mongers == Perl Mongoose as well :-)
Dave.
, I would like to stipulate that that sentence be taken
out and shot. ;>
Dave
On Thu, 10 May 2001, Larry Wall wrote:
> Dave Storrs writes:
> : should stick with <>. Also, I'd prefer to use the 'x' operator for
> : specifying multiples:
> :
> : @foo = <$STDIN> x 4;
> : @foo = <$STDIN> x &mySub;
> :
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Larry Wall wrote:
> Dave Mitchell writes:
> : My thinking behind "if fails on one, avoid on all" was that if it failed
> : on at least one, then it may well fail on others that you dont have access
> : to - either now or in the future, and thus p
d keep core size down, make the
translator easily available as a separate system/API, and make it easy to
turn off the translation after enough time has passed that P6 is the
assumed standard.
Dave
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Larry Wall wrote:
> Dave Storrs writes:
> : calling the function that produced the string, or whatever. I just think
> : that we could extend 'x' to have a general repetition meaning.
>
> I think just patching one operator from verbal status to
7;t get it, I told him what it did and asked him to
explain how it worked. When he couldn't, I reminded him that there was a
"nasty trick" and told him that the trick was that it wasn't C++ code, it
was Perl code.
Dave
a reason is a
separate question.) I understand it would be difficult, since properties
work off the 'is' keyword, which returns its left arg; still, I don't see
why this is harder (from a programming view) than making 'if' and 'unless'
capable of prefix or postfix usage.
Dave
this case, I really am setting a property, not setting a
property.
I'm not sure what the appropriate way to disambiguate the two is,
or if there even needs to be a specific mechanism (can perl be smart
enough to DWIM on this?). Definitely something to think about.
Dave
On Tue, 15 May 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 03:30:07PM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote:
> > - A while ago, someone suggested that the word 'has' be an alias
> > for 'is', so that when you roll your own properties, you could write
> &
I recently received the following email from someone whose name I
have snipped.
> * Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05/16/2001 08:11]:
> >
> > Ok, this is basically a bunch of "me too!"s.
>
> Keep the snide comments to yourself. Thanks.
On Wed, 16 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Dave Storrs writes:
> > < SARCASM=EXTREME>
>
> Everyone, please try to stop the downhill descent of the conversation.
> This is not just Dave, but others in the thread too.
For the record, the original post in
On Wed, 16 May 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:14:57AM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote:
> > afraid of, and to express your concerns about it. However, the way that
> > you chose to do that ("Once quick and dirty dies, Perl dies.") implies
> > t
your concern is well taken, I think you are doing
yourself a disservice by using such inflammatory language...it makes me
(and probably others) focus more on your tone than on your point.
Dave Storrs
least maintain your
current level of productivity without doing anything but that, if you take
the time to learn the new features, your productivity might go up...not
necessarily, since the new features may not help with what your doing, but
maybe. (Peter, I'm putting words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm
wrong.)
Dave
Hmmm...ok, on thinking about it, I generally agree with you.
There is only one point that I would debate (and, as you'll see, there's
a solution for that one, too):
On Wed, 16 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Dave Storrs writes:
> > 1) One of the great s
ng here, but I get nervous about
"as" and "is" being the chosen keywords...they are only one letter apart
and the cognitive difference between them is very small(*); I think it
would be very easy to mix them up.
Dave
* For an example of words that are only one letter apart but have a very
large cognitive difference, try "now" and "not."
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>> > >my $a is true = 0; # variable property
>> > >my $a = 0 is true; # variable property
>> > >my ($a) = 0 is true;# value property
>> >
>> > Wow. Totally ETOOCONFUSING.
>
On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 10:01:28AM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote:
>
> Would you also advocate separate declarative syntax for variable
> properties and value properties? That's where I think much confusion
> will be.
oofwoof
> 110 woofwoof
> 111 woof woof
Third, a question about the table above. (+spot).bark evaluates to the
value properties, yes? So, shouldn't the 'arf' and 'Error' be switched
for 010?
Dave
till out
there),
- having an unmatched ' screws up most highlighting editors
- I personally think it is an unattractive syntax (MHO)
Dave
h a stack
architecture.
I'm unclear what purpose having virtual resisters for ints and nums serves:
can't we just put those in real registers? Or perhaps I'm missing the pt?
Dave "even unclearer abut this than Dan" M.
understand and document it. So, consider sv.c 'grabbed'; if no-one's
done av.c and sv.c in the meantime, I may get round to them too.
Dave.
Thought for the day:
% cd perl-current; grep '#define' *.[ch] | wc -l
12561
> I've been meaning for a while to sit down and thoroughly go through sv.c
> to understand and document it. So, consider sv.c 'grabbed'; if no-one's
> done av.c and sv.c in the meantime, I may get round to them too.
^
hv.c of course.
ng. I've also told him what I'd like: something like this:
>
> Scalar
> Strings
> Chop from beginning
> Format a la sprintf
> ...
Are you also interested in functions on scalars that happen to be in pp*.c
rather than sv.c?
Dave.
is next, followed by the
actual document itself.
Dave M.
---
diffs:
-"K&R" style for indenting control constructs
+"K&R" style for indenting control constructs: ie the closing C<}> shou
> > "K&R" style for indenting control constructs: ie the closing C<}> should
> > line up with the opening C etc.
> >
> > =item *
> >
> > When a conditional spans multiple lines, the opening brace must line up
> > with the "if" or "while", or be at the end-of-line otherwise.
>
> I certainly will
Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't like push/pop - they imply a lot of stack limit checking word-by-word
> when it is less overhead for compiler to analyse the needs of whole
basic-block
> check-for/make-space-on the stack _once_ then just address it.
There's no reason why you
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