Pugs-Rule: Grammar support.

2006-01-01 Thread Audrey Tang
Today I added two more rules in the default grammar, in addition to : rule p6namedrule     { rule \s+ ([\w|<'::'>]+) \s* \{ \} ;? \s* } rule p6grammar     { ^ grammar \s+ ([\w|<'::'>]+); \s* * $ } With this, the PILN grammar is now successfully parsed with its Syntax.grammar file.  To su

Pugs-PIL: Containers adopts Roles.

2006-01-02 Thread Audrey Tang
Today Stevan started writing out Roles for container types, so there can be multiple classes that implements the Hash/Array/Scalar interface, so operations like .{} and .[] can apply to user-defined types as well. This is similar to the Perl 5 way of using the "tie" interface, as well as over

The old "$x will not stay shared" thing.

2006-01-15 Thread Audrey Tang
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm almost sure this had been covered before, but I failed to find a reference in either the archives or in synopses, so here goes again: sub f ($x) { sub g ($y) { $x + $y }; g($x); } f(10); # 20? Currently in Pugs, &g is built at

Indeterminate forms for the Num type.

2006-01-17 Thread Audrey Tang
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Assuming "num" uses the underlying floating point semantic (which may turn 0/0 into NaN without raising exception), what should the default "Num" do on these forms? 0/0 0*Inf Inf/Inf Inf-Inf 0**0 Inf**0

Re: Indeterminate forms for the Num type.

2006-01-17 Thread Audrey Tang
Doug McNutt wrote: >> - - Specify them to return some definite value. > Only on a machine that doesn't do it in hardware or in some special perl > function that's unlikely. This question arises as different platform answer things differently for the native calculation of eg. 1**Inf. > >> At this

Re: Indeterminate forms for the Num type.

2006-01-17 Thread Audrey Tang
Luke Palmer wrote: > I believe we've been through this before. We go with a standard, > probably IEEE, horridly mathematically unappealing though it may be. > It will be easier to implement and it will be more predictable, both > because most other language follow standards, too. "The good thing

Re: Indeterminate forms for the Num type.

2006-01-17 Thread Audrey Tang
Audrey Tang wrote: > That seems to follow from the standard (ruby, ocaml, mzscheme currently > does that), but some may also argue for NaN bothways (ghc, js) or an > exception bothways (perl5, python). Er, wait, ghc also raises an exception for (div 0 0), because it distinguishes int

Re: Class methods vs. Instance methods

2006-01-19 Thread Audrey Tang
Rob Kinyon wrote: > "Any practical programming language with structural subtyping will > probably let you create and use aliases for type names (so you don't > have to write the full form everywhere). However, the underlying type > system will only consider the structure of the type when doing its

perl6-all@perl.org

2006-01-20 Thread Audrey Tang
Stevan Little wrote: >> I realize one of Stevan's objections is "But if you use a Hash, does your >> object automatically support the .keys method and .kv and so on?" to >> which I >> reply "No, of course not. That's silly. It just uses the Hash for >> *storage*." >> Is that your objection to ble

Re: Conversion oneliner t-shirt

2006-01-27 Thread Audrey Tang
On 1/27/06, Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Because of the favourable response to the prototype I wore during the > post-euroscon Amsterdam.pm meeting, and because Cafepress finally has > black shirts, it is now available for everyone who wants one. > > http://www.cafepress.com/perl6 After some

Re: raising Pugs' minimum GHC to 6.4.1 from 6.4.0

2006-01-29 Thread Audrey Tang
Darren Duncan wrote: > ghc 6.4.1 works with any gcc version, both 3.3 and 4.0, so users with > either gcc installed, the newer ghc will just work. > > ghc 6.4.0 works only with gcc 3.3, so those people that get 4.0 by > default will have to downgrade to work with 6.4.0. I've just committed r8839,

\c[NAMED UNICODE CHARACTER]?

2006-01-30 Thread Audrey Tang
Is it possible to have it as part of Synopsis 02? It's mentioned variously in A05, E05 and E07 (where it permits a \c[2026] form, but should be spelled \d[2026] nowadays), but is not currently part of any Synopses. Audrey

Re: [patch] Makefile.PL Perl6-Pugs revision 8877

2006-02-01 Thread Audrey Tang
Nod, it's resolved in r8890 by removing the now-not-used $run. Next time around, please commit ahead. :-) A commit bit is on your way. Audrey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: pre0 non-smoke

2006-02-01 Thread Audrey Tang
Larry Wall wrote: > Here's results of r8894 on up-to-date Fedora Core 4 with embparrot > r11392. Other the usual embparrot rules breakage, is looking pretty > clean here even with bleadparrot. All the failures below look like > rules coredumps to me, including the undef.t one. Yay! I've fixed t

Re: pugs link error

2006-02-01 Thread Audrey Tang
Beau E. Cox wrote: > Compiled/intstalled parrot-0.4.1 revision 11397 (svn). OK. > Downloaded pugs 6.2.11 revision 8909 (svn). r8927 added a probe to Makefile.PL: According to Leo, you need to keep the original Parrot source tree around, and let Pugs find one of src/{null,parrot,install}_config.o f

[RELEASE] Pugs 6.2.11 released!

2006-02-01 Thread Audrey Tang
On the first anniversary of the Pugs project, I'm delighted to announce Pugs 6.2.11 to the world. The release tarball will be available from CPAN shortly: http://pugscode.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.11.tar.gz SIZE = 2930469 SHA1 = 20b46eed2161e8cec2e85ecfc6b5137c30dcd0ac Please see h

PGE vs bindings (was Re: embparrot still has two failures)

2006-02-04 Thread Audrey Tang
Larry Wall wrote: > Failed Test Stat Wstat Total Fail Failed List of > Failed > --- > t/rules/from_perl6_rules/array_ca 18 460845 10 22.22% 41-45 > t/rules/from_perl6_rules/named_ca 18

Re: overloading the variable declaration process

2006-02-05 Thread Audrey Tang
On 2/6/06, Darren Duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Speaking briefly, I would like it if Perl 6 provided a way for a > class (or role, or meta-class, etc) to declare that all variables > declared to be of that type are automatically/implicitly set to a > particular value at declaration time, so t

Re: PGE vs bindings (was Re: embparrot still has two failures)

2006-02-05 Thread Audrey Tang
On 2/6/06, Patrick R. Michaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Feb 05, 2006 at 11:34:33AM +0800, Audrey Tang wrote: > > That seems to be a fatal error at PGE's side: > > > >$ echo 'rule $x:=[]' | parrot demo.pir > >error:imcc:syntax error

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

2006-02-07 Thread Audrey Tang
On 2/8/06, Yuval Kogman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If Audrey is willing, I think a correct new direction for pugs is to > try and separate the parts even more - the prelude is a mess right > now, many of it's part are duplicated across the backends, the > standard library that is mashed into the

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

2006-02-08 Thread Audrey Tang
Yuval Kogman wrote: > What I do think is that there is something in the middle of these > two big questions, and they are: > > * How will the Perl 6 compiler be designed (parts, etc) That... was what Pugs Apocrypha was meant to contain, with PA02 being a design overview, and PA03 onward doc

Re: 'ghc-pkg.exe: cannot find package plugins' during 'perl Makefile.PL'

2006-02-20 Thread Audrey Tang
Syed Uzair Aqeel wrote: > pugs-tmp-4928.hs:5:2: Not in scope: `setCatchSigwinch' > Substitution pattern not terminated at (eval 12) line 1. Does Makefile.PL die right there, or does it go on and write a Makefile? If the latter, you should be able to just continue "make; make install". Audrey s

Re: What is the Value of t/0-signature.t?

2006-03-10 Thread Audrey Tang
Yuval Kogman wrote: > The problem with these is that Module::Signature fails when it > should warn if the key is not present in the user's keyring. > > If this technical issue is solved then regardless of whether or not > signature tests are useless (i think they are, but then again i also > think

Re: S06 Splicing clarification

2006-03-10 Thread Audrey Tang
Brad Bowman wrote: > and against the spirit of the "my $COMPILING::x" in earlier versions of > S06. > Regardless of the "not a block" status of a q:code, I think that it's > lexicals should only be visible within the q:code by default. If this > is the intention of the above phrase the it should b

Value PMCs in Parrot?

2006-03-11 Thread Audrey Tang
With Leo's help, I'm porting Pugs's native PIL VM to Parrot (HLL "Perl6" under "pugs_group"), and we immediately stuck on translating the notion of a "value object" to Parrot. First, some backgrounds from Perl 6's class hierarchy. There are three kinds of classes in Perl 6: "Native" classes:

A tale of two PMCs.

2006-03-11 Thread Audrey Tang
(cross-posted from http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2006/03/a_tale_of_two_p.html-- this provides some background of the ongoing Vienna^2 hackathon's progress on bootstrapping Pugs on Perl 5 and Parrot, simultaneously, sharing as much code and structure as possible.) Just some short sketches as I'm quite

r11754: MAYBE_FLAT deprecated?

2006-03-13 Thread Audrey Tang
Hi Chip, In r11754, you had deprecated the use of the MAYBE_FLAT flag, but there is no mention of this in the commit log. Consider this Perl 6 snippet: foo(@x, @y); sub foo (@x, @y) { } versus: foo(@x, @y); sub foo ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) { } how should I emit the call for foo() w

Re: MAYBE_FLAT lives on

2006-03-14 Thread Audrey Tang
Chip Salzenberg wrote: > Audrey, I just committed the below to pdd03 because I think it'll work for > Pugs. What say? Say sane. Thanks! Audrey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Support for S05's new "result object"?

2006-03-14 Thread Audrey Tang
Heya. Today I noted with delight that PGE supports interpolation of closures: $ parrot demo.pir rule Foo {{ print "Hello" }} Though the Perl 6 form is {...} instead of {{...}} -- is that intentional? We have started self-hosting Perl6 compilation, beginning with a self-hosting Rule engi

Re: What is the Value of t/0-signature.t?

2006-03-17 Thread Audrey Tang
On 3/17/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Do you mean that it's valuable only for the author to run (perhaps during > disttest) and rarely useful for the user to run during installation? Aye. Though I can imagine users who'd like to run them as well... This is after all not that differ

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r8532 - doc/trunk/design/syn

2006-04-02 Thread Audrey Tang
Uri Guttman wrote: > one of these days when i have tuits of large circumference, i will do a > nit pass over as much of the A/E/S as i can handle before my brain > explodes. having done tech editing for perl books is good training for > this. in fact it would be a good idea to have several such pas

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r8573 - doc/trunk/design/syn

2006-04-06 Thread Audrey Tang
TSa wrote: > Note that a prominent, typical foo actually reads: > > self .bar; > > And a self($_.bar) is pretty much useless. In other words > wrongly huffmanized. FWIW, I agree with both points. Some more points: * I think both "say(.meth)" or ".meth.say" are more succinct/readable than "sa

Re: placeholder vs. lexical variables

2006-04-11 Thread Audrey Tang
Dan Kogai wrote: > I found this when I was playing w/ pugs. > > pugs> { $^x }.(42) > 42 > pugs> { my $z; $^x }.(42) > *** Undeclared variable: "$^x" > at line 1, column 10-14 > > So far as I see s06, there's nothing wrong w/ the statement above. I > just want to make sure this is not a perl

Capturing the Captures.

2006-04-15 Thread Audrey Tang
As promised yesterday, today gaal and I entered a gobby Q/A session, producing the first document under the Perl6::FAQ tree, on the newly coined Capture objects (previously known as Arguments) objects: http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/FAQ/Capture.pod A HTMLized version is also avail

Re: [perl #38931] [RFE] Double-quoted strings automatically determine string type

2006-04-16 Thread Audrey Tang
Nicholas Clark wrote: > On Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 11:22:40AM -0700, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: >> $S1 = "He said, \xabHello\xbb" >> $S2 = "3 \u2212 4 = \u207b 1" >> >> are treated as ASCII strings even though they obviously contain >> codepoints outside of the ASCII range. (The first results

Re: Capture Object: why no verb?

2006-04-17 Thread Audrey Tang
Dave Whipp wrote: > Perhaps I'm not fully groking the abstraction of the capture-object, but > it seems to me that there should be a slot in it for the method. For > dispatch, all three things are needed (invocant, method, args); so if > you're going to put two of them in one object, then maybe the

Infix macro := reparsing the LHS?

2006-04-19 Thread Audrey Tang
Not sure if this is p6l or p6c... Fallback to the latter. :) In this line: [Dog ::T $ ($x) where 1, *$, [EMAIL PROTECTED] := moose(); the left hand side is probably not a valid Perl 6 expression, yet according to the current spec, it needs to be parsed implicitly as if a :() is around it. Ho

The "parse" composer

2006-04-20 Thread Audrey Tang
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > +=item * > + > +Just as C has variants, so does the C declarator. > +In particular, there are two special variants for use in grammars: > +C and C. After a brief discussion on #perl6 with pmichaud and Juerd, it seems that a verb "parse" at the same space as "sub"/"method

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r8883 - doc/trunk/design/syn

2006-04-20 Thread Audrey Tang
Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > Two other ideas (from a short walk)... how about something along > the lines of "phrase" or "sequence"? Parsec use the word "lexeme" to mean exactly the same thing... Audrey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

=$fh vs *$fh

2006-04-22 Thread Audrey Tang
During my S03 cleanup today, I noticed that because *$fh and **$fh interpolates into the current argument list, it's always the same as =$fh under list context. So I wrote this paragraph: [Conjectural: File handles interpolates its lines into positional arguments (e.g. to C>), so we can make C<=$

Re: Capture Object: why no verb?

2006-04-22 Thread Audrey Tang
Dave Whipp wrote: > Also, I'm a bit confused By the idea that the invocant is obtained by a > scalar dereference, because I know that arrays and hashes can be > invocants, too. E.g. @a.pop. So, If I do: > > my $args = \(@a:); > my $b = $$args; # @a as a scalar > my @c = @$args; # empty l

Re: =$fh vs *$fh

2006-04-23 Thread Audrey Tang
Larry Wall wrote: > On the other hand, -<> makes a pretty pathetic fish operator. So for > the sake of argument, let's keep it =<> for the moment. But ignoring the > tail leads us to the head end of the fish. What do we do about $ARGS? > We could say this: > > =$fh : *$fh :: =<> : *<> > >

Re: is_deeply() is painful

2006-04-26 Thread Audrey Tang
chromatic wrote: > With Parrot's type system, where the writer of the code (me) doesn't know at > code writing time what the type of the incoming data structures or individual > data members might be, what's a concise and maintainable way to port > is_deeply() to PIR? Try a :multi first; if uns

Re: A shorter long dot

2006-04-29 Thread Audrey Tang
Damian Conway wrote: > Juerd wrote: >>> and propose ".:" as a solution > >> $xyzzy.:foo(); >> $fooz. :foo(); >> $foo. :foo(); > > This would make the enormous semantic difference between: > >foo. :bar() > > and: > >foo :bar() > > depend on a visual difference of

Re: A shorter long dot

2006-04-30 Thread Audrey Tang
Austin Hastings wrote: > Or, to put it another way: what hard problem is it that you guys are > actively avoiding, that you've spent a week talking about making > substantial changes to the language in order to facilitate lining up > method names? That's a very good point too. Initially it's just

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r9076 - doc/trunk/design/syn

2006-05-02 Thread Audrey Tang
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is my ($foo, *, $bar) = 1..3 legal perl6? my ($foo, undef, $bar) = > 1..3; is valid perl5, but AFAIK that is completely undocumented. (It's > quite useful from time to time Most likely yes, as lvalue * can just act as a /dev/null. > -- now if only my (@rest, $almost,

Re: problem building pugs

2006-05-06 Thread Audrey Tang
rlp wrote: > ar: creating archive dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.11.a > *** Building: /usr/local/bin/ghc -package stm -package network -package > mtl -package template-haskell -package base -package fps -package > HsSyck -package unix -idist/build -Ldist/build -idist/build/src > -Ldist/build/src -o pugs

Re: A rule by any other name...

2006-05-09 Thread Audrey Tang
Allison Randal wrote: > More importantly, whitespace skipping isn't a very significant option in > grammars in general, so creating two keywords that distinguish between > skipping and no skipping is linguistically infelicitous. It's like > creating two different words for "shirts with horizontal s

Re: A rule by any other name...

2006-05-11 Thread Audrey Tang
Patrick R. Michaud wrote: >> - is a single character of obligatory whitespace Hmm, it's literal ' ' (that is, \x20), not "whitespace" in general, right? For "obligatory whitespace" we have \s. > This one has bugged me since the day I first saw it implemented > in PGE. We _already_ have \s, , a

Re: A rule by any other name...

2006-05-11 Thread Audrey Tang
Ruud H.G. van Tol wrote: > Are all or some of the following equivalent to ? > > U+00A0 No-Break Space > U+202F Narow No-Break Space > U+FEFF Zero Width No-Break Space > U+2060 Word Joiner No. A05 makes it explicit is just \x20, and S05 also says that it matches one "space char", wh

Re: ACID transactions for in-memory data structures

2006-05-15 Thread Audrey Tang
Rob Kinyon wrote: > I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be very feasible to do this natively in > P5. But, would it be possible to do it natively in P6? As in, > supported within the interpreter vs. through some sort of overloading. Look at "is atomic" in S17draft, and Software Transaction Memory in gener

Re: lvalues and "is rw" parameter passing

2006-05-16 Thread Audrey Tang
Chip Salzenberg wrote: > On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 03:24:20PM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: sub foo($x is rw) { $x = new SomeClass } @z = 0..2; foo( @z[1] ); > > I sympathize with your desire for an answer, but it's probably a good idea > for yo

Re: lvalues and "is rw" parameter passing

2006-05-16 Thread Audrey Tang
Chip Salzenberg wrote: > > All that's needed is for the Perl 6 implementors to create a perl6;Scalar > container that's more or less a translucent reference: It will handle > assignment by switching to a new value, but it will handle most other > operations by delegating to the value it currently

Re: Relationship between pugs and parrot/language/perl6

2006-05-29 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/5/29 下午 11:43 時,Rob 寫到: I see that there's work being done on a perl6 implementation under languages in parrot. How is this effort related to the pugs project? Is the aim of this to provide an alternative implementation of perl6 to pugs? Is one of them the destined to be the ca

Re: About default options ':ratchet' and ':sigspace' on rules

2006-06-03 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/3 下午 3:03 時,Shu-Chun Weng 寫到: I'll then rewrite most of my rules into tokens. And about the definition of , the "engine" I mentioned is Pugs::Complier::Rule, so that if what PGE does is considered the "correct" way, I will change the behavior of P::C::Rule. Yes, please do. :-) By

Re: Perl6 without GHC or Parrot?

2006-06-22 Thread Audrey Tang
2006/6/22, Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Still, it fails the following tests in 01-sanity: 07-for.t 07-isa.t 07-range.t 07-ref.t 07-simple-multisubs.t 07-tailcall.t 08-test.t as well as nearly all of the other tests under t/. I imagine you already knew

Re: State of Perl6 Backends

2006-06-22 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/22 下午 8:18 時,Swaroop C H 寫到: Hi Audrey, I'm hell confused on the state of the numerous Perl6 backends that we have :-). As I understand it, there is no "main" backend right? First there is the Pugs part written in Haskell that compiles to PIR which Parrot can run, and similarly

Re: State of Perl 6 Backends

2006-06-23 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/23 上午 9:50 時,chromatic 寫到: On Friday 23 June 2006 00:04, Swaroop C H wrote: So, as of now, you envision svn:/pugs/misc/pX/Common/Pugs-Compiler- Perl6 to be the "main" engine for Perl 6 ? I believe Audrey's point was that it is the most complete implementation right now. No, t

Re: lexical lookup and OUTER::

2006-06-23 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/23 下午 1:31 時,Patrick R. Michaud 寫到: I interpret the first sentence as meaning that the "MY" pseudo-package refers to all of the symbols in the current lexical scope, not just those that have been explicitly declared in the current scope using "my". Same interpretation here, as S02 say

Re: Perl6 without GHC or Parrot?

2006-06-23 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/22 下午 12:37 時,Andy Dougherty 寫到: One other oddity: You can't run the test file twice without cleaning up the generated .tc files first. Specifically: $ perl -Ilib 01-sanity/01-tap.t [ works ] $ perl -Ilib 01-sanity/01-tap.t Unmatched right curly bracket at 01-sani

Re: lexical lookup and OUTER::

2006-06-24 Thread Audrey Tang
2006/6/24, Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 01:43:03PM -0700, Matt Diephouse wrote: [Parrot assembler implementation] > Of course, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like an opcode to do it for > me. :-) Is Parrot assembler considered a more productive language to writ

Re: lexical lookup and OUTER::

2006-06-24 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/24 上午 8:41 時,Patrick R. Michaud 寫到: because later in the scope $x may be declared, so it's safer to just put OUTER right there. I don't think $x can be declared later in the scope. According to S04, If you've referred to $x prior to the first declaration, and the compiler

Re: Pm's YAPC::NA talk online

2006-06-27 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/6/27 下午 4:41 時,Patrick R. Michaud 寫到: For any who may be interested, my talk slides for "Perl 6 Compiler Status and the Parrot Compiler Toolkit" (presented today at YAPC::NA) are available at http://www.pmichaud.com/2006/pres/yapc-perl6/slide.html That was a wonderful talk. Thank

Re: S04

2006-07-02 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/1 下午 6:08 時,Tom Allison 寫到: I picked this up at the YAPC and made some markups on it. Apologies that it is not in a diff format, but that's going to come with practice. ... is there a file attachment somewhere? :-) I got stuck on some of the intended behaviors and prohibited

[ANNOUNCE] Pugs 6.2.12 and v6.pm released!

2006-07-03 Thread Audrey Tang
Changes for 6.2.12 (r10930) - June 26, 2006 Licensing Changes The src/ tree and the pugs executable are now released under the permissive MIT license, in addition to Artistic and GPL A new third-party/ tree to hold bundled prerequisites originated from non-Pugs projects New Perl 6 modu

Vanilla Perl, Win32, and Data::Bind support.

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
Hi Flavio: You asked me on #perl6 to build a Data::Bind binary distribution for Win32-ActivePerl. After working on it for 2 hours, I (re)discovered that it's impossible to do that, using the current generation of gratis downloads of Visual Studio C++ Express 2005, as it seems that Perl

[ANNOUNCE] Pugs 6.2.12 and v6.pm released! (reformatted)

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
(Mail.app totally scrambled the previous mail; sorry about this re- post.) I'm glad to announce that Pugs 6.2.12 is now available from CPAN: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12/ SIZE: 2693459 SHA1: c9731da8e597591ca7e279766481ce0bece8cfa4 This release features much better

Re: [perl #39711] [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/4 下午 8:50 時,Allison Randal via RT 寫到: The :immediate feature isn't really a question of reentrancy (it doesn't hold static data over successive calls, and it doesn't return a pointer to static data). That depends on the :immediate code. The equivalence of BEGIN { $Static::d

Re: [perl #39711] [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/4 下午 10:05 時,Allison Randal 寫到: Perl tends to take the strategy of making the power accessible and teaching people to use it wisely (a philosophy that Parrot carries on). I would note that only Perl 5, and Perl 5 alone, has this interleaved- parsing-with-evaluation feature with f

Re: [perl #39711] [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/4 下午 11:36 時,Allison Randal 寫到: Audrey Tang wrote: But again, it's the architect's decision to make, and I will stop to quibble. :-) I'd rather help you understand why it's the right choice for a virtual machine targeting dynamic languages, but if I can't

Re: [perl #39711] [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant

2006-07-04 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/4 下午 11:54 時,Audrey Tang 寫到: Indeed, I'll welcome a writeup of why :immediate is useful and how you envision it to be used; that'd be much better than "because it's a dynamic-evaluation-during-compilation feature, and we are working with dynamic-typing-during-r

Re: [perl #39711] [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant

2006-07-05 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/5 上午 3:06 時,Allison Randal 寫到: Audrey Tang wrote: But I guess this bug ticket is not an appropriate place... Indeed. We need a "Document :immediate" ticket. I already filed that as #39716 a few hours ago; also #39715 and #39714, as per your suggestion: [TODO] Docum

v6.pm now runs Test.pm!

2006-07-05 Thread Audrey Tang
(Cross-posted from http://pugs.blogs.com/pugs/2006/07/ v6pm_now_runs_t.html) Due to clkao++ and fglock++'s work, the CPAN version of v6.pm now passes all Pugs sanity tests, up and including the Perl 6 Test.pm: # http://search.cpan.org/dist/v6-pugs/ # http://search.cpan.org/dist/v6-pu

Re: Perl 6 compiler docs released - graffle questions, compiler questions

2006-07-05 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/5 上午 1:26 時,George Wood 寫到: Here are some probably for Audrey... 1. Page on Perl 6 on Haskell - Is runtime Specific AST actually the file Language.TH.Sytnax? Well, no, it's probably best to call it Pugs.AST, and link to src/ Pugs/AST.hs. 2. I am still trying to distinguish the

Re: namespaces, a single colon to separate HLL prefix?

2006-07-06 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/6 上午 3:30 時,Allison Randal 寫到: Quick question, is there a syntax specified in Perl 6 for referring to namespaces from other languages? I'm reviewing the namespaces PDD and want to update this snippet: -- IMPLEMENTATION EXAMPLES: Suppose a Perl program were to import some Tcl m

Perl 6 Summary: 2006-02-13 through 2006-02-28

2006-07-09 Thread Audrey Tang
specific language, the semantics of whitespace skipping, and negated matching semantics. Luke Palmer replied and explained that the extensions were not yet specified, and recommend possible solutions to the other two questions. Discussion ensued. <http://xrl.us/oxxc&g

Re: "Dynamic" (was discussion for #39711 -- [TODO] Make PIR->PBC reentrant)

2006-07-10 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/5 上午 12:15 時,chromatic 寫到: On Tuesday 04 July 2006 21:01, Audrey Tang wrote: Hence I'm puzzled why you raise the "dynamic language" categorization as a justification, for that term usually refers to dynamic typing, not to :immediate. If it is referring to :immedia

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/11 下午 7:33 時,Chip Salzenberg via RT 寫到: Now think about the alternatives if your goal is to have the table ready to go at runtime without any computational overhead at all, e.g. a CRC table. And if we can restrict :immediate using some security principal in the future so it can o

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/11 下午 11:52 時,Bob Rogers via RT 寫到: But by "compile time" you both unambiguously mean "PIR compile time", not "HLL compile time," since there's no HLL involved. But an HLL compiler always has the option of building a PIR constant at HLL compile time [2], so that just leaves the case

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
So far we have been enable to produce a use case that requires unbounded evaluation (typo, it's "unable" above.) PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part

[TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
Allison and Chip expressed their go-ahead with a .loadlib pragma, to replace this current use: .sub foo :immediate $I0 = loadlib "XXX" .end With this: .loadlib "XXX" This might be done as part of vsoni's IMCC refactoring, or as a lexer action that loads the library as soon as this dire

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 12:22 時,Chip Salzenberg 寫到: In short, to say that :immediate is unpredictable is to make a null statement, because in practice, all computation is unpredictable. Yes. And it is the designer's choice to introduce unpredictability into the PIR level. If the designer allows rand(

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 12:40 時,chromatic via RT 寫到: To follow this argument logically, I don't see alternatives besides removing :init or sandboxing all potentially destructive operations -- and I have plenty of Perl 5 code that legitimately deletes files in BEGIN blocks as evidence that this potent

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 12:33 時,chromatic via RT 寫到: Because people might write code, by hand, that does careless things in :immediate subs? Yes. This is the difference between forcing syntax highlighters, security checkers, dependency analyzers, and refactoring browsers to run rm-rf, and let use

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 12:51 時,Allison Randal via RT 寫到: Chip Salzenberg wrote: [*] Just what it _is_ intended for is an open question. I think the user base will answer it, if we let them, in time. To give a concrete and immediately relevant example: the fact that people are using :immedia

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 12:57 時,chromatic 寫到: On Tuesday 11 July 2006 21:45, Audrey Tang wrote: If you think PIR is a language for people to write manually to code applications in, _and_ it has some legitimate use for deleting files in :immediate blocks, then your argument may make some sense

Re: [perl #39792] [TODO] Deprecate :immediate in favour of .loadlib and .const

2006-07-11 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 上午 1:12 時,Allison Randal via RT 寫到: Audrey Tang wrote: That is a sane argument, which is why I think punt-and-see has some merit: as soon as there is a workaround forced to be expressed at :immediate level, we can evaluate it and see if it's better handled declarat

Re: "_group" in library name (was Re: r13272 - in trunk: compilers/imcc docs/imcc src)

2006-07-13 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 下午 9:38 時,Chip Salzenberg 寫到: On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 05:29:08PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Apply heuristics that tells .loadlib 'perl6_group' # HLL dynamic PMCs and .loadlib 'dynlexpad'# non-HLL dynamic PMCs apart, by locating the '_group" substring inside

Re: [svn:parrot] r13270 - trunk/languages/perl6

2006-07-13 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/12 下午 8:16 時,Allison Randal 寫到: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Modified: trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir = = --- trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir (original) +++ trunk/languages/perl6/perl6.pir Wed Jul 12 17

Re: [svn:parrot] r13270 - trunk/languages/perl6

2006-07-13 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/13 上午 3:35 時,Audrey Tang 寫到: If Leo's comment about .loadlib being compile-and-runtime is already implemented, then you should be able to eliminate that runtime call to the loadlib opcode too. Indeed, though as I tested it (both at the time of the commit and at this m

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

2006-07-14 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/14 上午 5:26 時,Leopold Toetsch via RT 寫到: Err, t/dynpmc/dynlexpad.t is using .loadlib and is testing fine. Please try to provide a minimal parrot test showing the problem. Trying (though it remained a bit elusive), but if you "make realclean", and then change languages/tcl/src/tcls

Re: [perl #39796] [TODO] Implement .loadlib pragma in IMCC

2006-07-14 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/14 上午 6:45 時,Audrey Tang 寫到: Changing it back to :immediate makes tests pass again. Alternately, skipping the Parrot_register_HLL part in IMCC makes tests pass again. After several rounds of trial-and-error, I've committed r13294 that works around the problem: * Tcl: C

Re: IMCC Reentarancy

2006-07-16 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/16 下午 11:57 時,Vishal Soni 寫到: a. A clean implementation rather than a prototypish implementation I think that the lemon+re2c, being the more modern parsing tools, will make refactoring/hacking considerably easier. Whilst you are converting the current IMCC implementation into

Re: IMCC Reentarancy

2006-07-17 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/17 下午 3:41 時,Joshua Hoblitt 寫到: 4th Option: fix flex. ;) Turns out flex 2.5.30+ has a reentrant mode. However, it also has an incompatible API with earlier flex, even in non-reentrant mode. I've attached a patch under http:// rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=34669 (ne

Re: IMCC Reentrancy

2006-07-17 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/18 上午 1:21 時,Allison Randal 寫到: LOL :) Audrey, I love you dear, but you always have an interesting way of interpreting what I say. :) Yes, I'm not willing to start a 6+ month project to gut IMCC. The cost is too great and the benefit isn't great enough. Indeed, and I'd like to ap

Re: IMCC Reentrancy

2006-07-18 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/18 上午 1:54 時,Audrey Tang 寫到: If you have a way to make IMCC reentrant that involves upgrading to a more recent version of flex and passing one additional parameter, go for it! Send us a patch and if it passes all the tests, we'll apply it. As flex 2.5.30+ is not API compa

Re: IMCC Reentarancy

2006-07-18 Thread Audrey Tang
Vishal, 在 2006/7/16 下午 11:57 時,Vishal Soni 寫到: a. Remove flex and implement re2c b. Remove static and global variables Now that the flex part is done, are you still willing to help removing the remaining static/global state? Apart from this we also need to refactor the code to get

Re: [svn:parrot] r13343 - trunk/compilers/imcc

2006-07-18 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/18 上午 4:38 時,Allison Randal 寫到: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a maintainable build solution. Revert and come back when you have one. Reverted. Audrey PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Checkin #13345

2006-07-18 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/18 上午 4:49 時,chromatic 寫到: I don't believe there's a working heuristic for guessing which parameter the user failed to provide. That's why I didn't write the original version that way. Does r13347 look better? If not, please revert both my changes. As an aside, regardless of th

Re: [svn:parrot] r13343 - trunk/compilers/imcc

2006-07-18 Thread Audrey Tang
在 2006/7/18 上午 4:38 時,Allison Randal 寫到: This is not a maintainable build solution. Revert and come back when you have one. Please clarify: What, exactly, is not maintainable? The presence of a .diff file, or the fact that it needs to be applied manually? If the latter, an extra line of

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