On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 06:53:49 +0200, Otto Wyss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > - Make readability your main objective. Readability is possibly the
> > weakest part of Perl.
> >
> > - Keep your eyes on modularity. Modularity is by far the best concept
> > where complexity could be hidden.
> >
>
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:11:20 -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> "Can perl automatically optimize away function and tie calls inside
>a sort function, and under what circumstances?"
>
>It doesn't really matter if the functions inside the sort function are
>idempotent--what matters is whether it's
> Anyway, I'm trying to argue lingustics in a perl ML, with zero training.
> Is there a linguist in the house? (Hm, didn't Larry go to Japan to learn a
> language with wierd word-order?) (What's up with Larry, anyway? Any
> preliminary RFC responces?)
Everyone a linguist. :)
In any case, I th
Dave Mitchell wrote:
> The main thrust of that was whether a PDD on coding conventions
> should have sections on:
>...
> * Performance guidelines
>
> ...I guess we can safely dispense with that last entry.
No, performance guidelines are probably still appropriate;
but doing hand-coded peephole o
At 10:25 AM 3/29/2001 -0500, James Mastros wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:41:42PM -0800, Hong Zhang wrote:
> > Are we over-optimizing? The Perl is just an interpreter language.
> > Who really needs this kind of optimization for Perl? Even C does
> > not provide this feature.
>Umm, art thou sur
At 05:19 PM 3/29/2001 +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
>Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Somewhat tangentially: this reminds me of a message a week ago or so
> > (can't find it anymore in my inbox) which proposed writing C (or C++)
> > code for Perl 6 so that "modern CPU architectures a
Nicely put, Merijn.
Stomping into (any) programming language camp and telling loudly that
what you are doing is wrong is a bit like stomping into a Mongol camp
and asking what's up with the funny fur hats.
Or, in the of case Perl, accusing us of too much line noise and being
too hard to read, is
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
:I'm choosing a new language only if is suitable for most of my tasks and
:these range from the 10 line script up to several million line project.
:Currently Perl is rather capable for any small scripting task but it's
:out of questions if there are more than 2 person in
On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:41:42PM -0800, Hong Zhang wrote:
> Are we over-optimizing? The Perl is just an interpreter language.
> Who really needs this kind of optimization for Perl? Even C does
> not provide this feature.
Umm, art thou sure? C can optimize better then we currently do many times
At 03:41 PM 3/28/2001 -0800, Hong Zhang wrote:
>Are we over-optimizing? The Perl is just an interpreter language.
Perl's not just an interpreter language, and hasn't been for a while.
(Granted the bytecode compiler's not fully functional, but it does work in
some cases)
>Who really needs this
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 10:36:48AM -0800, Hong Zhang wrote:
> I have to say that I agree to disagree. Since it has been so controversal,
> I just don't think this optimization is a good one.
Hmm, we aren't talking sort() specificly anymore. Look at the subject line.
> The function in Ada can no
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 10:25:06AM -0500, James Mastros wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:41:42PM -0800, Hong Zhang wrote:
> > Are we over-optimizing? The Perl is just an interpreter language.
> > Who really needs this kind of optimization for Perl? Even C does
> > not provide this feature.
> U
At 06:53 AM 3/29/2001 +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
>It seems you are not interested in critics, so lets end this thread.
More to the point, I said let it rest, so the thread should end. Now. And
this means *everyone*.
Thank you.
Dan
-
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 11:29:16AM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 05:19 PM 3/29/2001 +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> >Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Somewhat tangentially: this reminds me of a message a week ago or so
> > > (can't find it anymore in my inbox) which proposed writ
On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 03:37:33PM -0700, Dan Brian wrote:
> > I must walk the god. (Subject modal-verb action-verb direct-object.)
> > A german-speaker would say:
> > I must the god walk. (Subject modal-verb direct-object action-verb.)
> "The god I must walk", "walk the god I must", etc. They are
Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> ... proposed writing C (or C++)
> code for Perl 6 so that "modern CPU architectures are happy" (no
> pipeline stalls because of "if"-s, etc.) ... in
> general, for large codebases, the C compilers are much, much,
> better in optimizing than humans.
I totally agree. Th
Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Somewhat tangentially: this reminds me of a message a week ago or so
> (can't find it anymore in my inbox) which proposed writing C (or C++)
> code for Perl 6 so that "modern CPU architectures are happy" (no
> pipeline stalls because of "if"-s, etc.)
> >Who really needs this kind of optimization for Perl?
>
> I do. Lots of people with web apps do. Pretty much anyone with a large or
> long-running perl program does.
I have to say that I agree to disagree. Since it has been so controversal,
I just don't think this optimization is a good one.
>
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Moin all,
Dan wrote a lot sensible things about Transparent BigInt/BigFloat support.
I am all for it. ;-P
Reasons:
It's the Perl way. (Int => Float already works that way)
Speed (For small numbers, use fast INT, for larger uses BigInt; currently
you must us
> From: Dan Sugalski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> I'm hoping to have this stage of optimization in perl. Off by
> default with
> a normal parse-and-go run (though certainly enableable if you
> want), on by
> default with the bytecode compiler.
Don't forget about run-time information: You coul
James Mastros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ahh, bingo. That's what a number of people (inculding me) are
> suggesting -- a :functional / :pure / :stateless /
> :somthingelseIdontrecall attribute attachable to a sub.
The experience from gcc, which has a similar attribute, is that such an
attrib
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Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:36:48 -0800, "Hong Zhang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The function in Ada can not have any side effect, i.e. no change to
> globals.
Unless my reading of the Ada 95 standard is wrong, there's nothing
that precludes function
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> True enough. This is a small subset of general optimizations. For example,
> this:
>
>
>$i = 0;
>foreach (1..1000) {
> $i++;
>}
>
> can be easily optimized to:
>
>$i = 1000;
>
> and most language implementations with any sort of o
At 10:57 PM 3/29/2001 +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
>How painful would an 'potential' optimization that marked that area in
>the bytecode/optree/whatever, with something along the lines of the
>following be?
>
> If you get to this point and $i is not tied, and '=' is not
> overridden for $i's
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Aliasing is actually one of the bigger problems with C, or so I'm lead
> to believe. It gets in the way of a number of optimizations rather
> badly. (So say some of Compaq's C and Fortran compiler folks, and I have
> no reason to doubt them. The Fortran
At 02:52 PM 3/29/2001 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>James Mastros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Ahh, bingo. That's what a number of people (inculding me) are
> > suggesting -- a :functional / :pure / :stateless /
> > :somthingelseIdontrecall attribute attachable to a sub.
>
>The experience from
> "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> This will probably be harder in Perl than in C because C can afford to
>> take more time to do global optimization passes.
DS> I'm hoping to have this stage of optimization in perl. Off by
DS> default with a normal parse-and-go ru
On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 11:08:14AM -0500, James Mastros wrote:
> Anyway, I'm trying to argue lingustics in a perl ML, with zero training.
That should be taken to mean that this thread is off topic, and should be
taken elsewhere. :)
> Is there a linguist in the house?
Oh, I guess so.
> (Hm, di
At 06:22 PM 3/29/2001 -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > "DS" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> This will probably be harder in Perl than in C because C can afford to
> >> take more time to do global optimization passes.
>
> DS> I'm hoping to have this stage of optimization i
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