Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-05 19:52:24 +0300: > On 05/05/15 19:22, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-05 18:00:15 +0300: > >> On 05/05/15 16:01, Doug Hellmann wrote: > >>> Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 5/5/15, 6:52 PM, "Maish Saidel-Keesing" wrote: >On 05/05/15 19:22, Doug Hellmann wrote: >> Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-05 18:00:15 >>+0300: >>> On 05/05/15 16:01, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700: >ups

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

I think that this will be my last say on this matter, because it seems to be getting out of hand. Us vs. them. Dev vs. Ops. It could be perceived that I am trying to wage a 'war' on the OpenStack development process, on the Developers, but that is not the case. But I do think there are valid

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Thiery - Most operators are busy fighting operational battles, scale out etc. It is often an all-hands-on-the-deck job. I don’t think we should just measure by contributors getting work done. The work is often silent, and lags behind the dev cycle. Subbu > On May 4, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Thierry C

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: And perhaps it could also be a good idea to have developers deploy and > operate a highly available geographically dispersed OpenStack > implementation trying to adhere to a defined SLA? Many do. Don't forget that the two original p

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Le 05/05/2015 18:41, Maish Saidel-Keesing a écrit : On 05/05/15 19:14, Sylvain Bauza wrote: Le 05/05/2015 18:00, Thierry Carrez a écrit : Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: It is not only the representation - it is also action on the feedback. There was an OPS summit not so long ago in Philade

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/05/15 19:22, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-05 18:00:15 +0300: On 05/05/15 16:01, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700: So Thierry I agree. Developers are required to make it happen. I would sa

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/05/15 19:00, Thierry Carrez wrote: Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: It is not only the representation - it is also action on the feedback. There was an OPS summit not so long ago in Philadelphia [1]. Two full days. I personally did not participate but from what I heard it was a good two days

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/05/15 19:14, Sylvain Bauza wrote: Le 05/05/2015 18:00, Thierry Carrez a écrit : Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: It is not only the representation - it is also action on the feedback. There was an OPS summit not so long ago in Philadelphia [1]. Two full days. I personally did not particip

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-05 18:00:15 +0300: > > On 05/05/15 16:01, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700: > >> So Thierry I agree. Developers are required to make it happen. I would say > >> however that acknowledgi

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Le 05/05/2015 18:00, Thierry Carrez a écrit : Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: It is not only the representation - it is also action on the feedback. There was an OPS summit not so long ago in Philadelphia [1]. Two full days. I personally did not participate but from what I heard it was a good two

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: > It is not only the representation - it is also action on the feedback. > > There was an OPS summit not so long ago in Philadelphia [1]. Two full > days. I personally did not participate but from what I heard it was a > good two days of discussions. It was. I was ther

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/05/15 18:10, Adam Lawson wrote: I think the ATC thing came up as one avenue to explore when folks were trying to figure out ways to quantify Operator involvement for the purpose of identifying who are actively contributing to OpenStack versus those who are fans/users of OpenStack but do

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

I think the ATC thing came up as one avenue to explore when folks were trying to figure out ways to quantify Operator involvement for the purpose of identifying who are actively contributing to OpenStack versus those who are fans/users of OpenStack but don't have time right now to contribute more f

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/05/15 16:01, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700: So Thierry I agree. Developers are required to make it happen. I would say however that acknowledging the importance of developer contributions and selecting leadership from the developmen

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-05 07:01:48 -0700: > Doug, it isn't about me or about trying to add more to the pool of one type > of contributor from a different pool of individuals with a different > skillset or about attempting to make shortcuts to leadership as you so > delicatel

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Doug, it isn't about me or about trying to add more to the pool of one type of contributor from a different pool of individuals with a different skillset or about attempting to make shortcuts to leadership as you so delicately put it. Frankly I think you're missing the point. When there is a techni

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700: > So Thierry I agree. Developers are required to make it happen. I would say > however that acknowledging the importance of developer contributions and > selecting leadership from the development community is really half the > battle

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 2015-05-04 10:25:10 -0700 (-0700), Adam Lawson wrote: [...] > it's pretty rare to see project teams led and governed by only > developers. [...] Not sure what other free software projects you've worked on/with before but not only is it not rare, it's the vast majority of them. -- Jeremy Stanle

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/04/2015 01:11 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-04 17:46:21 +0300: >> On 05/04/15 17:07, Anita Kuno wrote: >>> I'd like to go back to the beginning to clarify something. >>> >>> On 04/29/2015 02:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: So I started reply

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

So Thierry I agree. Developers are required to make it happen. I would say however that acknowledging the importance of developer contributions and selecting leadership from the development community is really half the battle as it's pretty rare to see project teams led and governed by only develop

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Maish Saidel-Keesing's message of 2015-05-04 17:46:21 +0300: > On 05/04/15 17:07, Anita Kuno wrote: > > I'd like to go back to the beginning to clarify something. > > > > On 04/29/2015 02:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: > >> So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but di

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: > A three point triangle. I like the idea! Anita I assume that you are > talking about the TC[3], the board [1] and the user committee [2]. > > I honestly do not see this at the moment as an equally weighted triangle. > Should they be? Perhaps not, maybe yes. > > It co

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/04/2015 10:46 AM, Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: > On 05/04/15 17:07, Anita Kuno wrote: >> I'd like to go back to the beginning to clarify something. >> >> On 04/29/2015 02:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: >>> So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but >>> didn't want >>> to hi-jac

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/04/15 17:07, Anita Kuno wrote: I'd like to go back to the beginning to clarify something. On 04/29/2015 02:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but didn't want to hi-jack that so I figured I'd present my question as a more general question

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

I'd like to go back to the beginning to clarify something. On 04/29/2015 02:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: > So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but didn't want > to hi-jack that so I figured I'd present my question as a more general > question about how voting is handled for th

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Morgan Fainberg wrote: > On Friday, May 1, 2015, Russell Bryant > wrote: > > On 05/01/2015 02:22 PM, Tim Bell wrote: > > > > The spec review process has made it much easier for operators to see > > what is being proposed and give input. > > > > R

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

I purposely didn't email the general mailing list since I didn't want to cross-post, hard to have these discussions across verticals and choosing one list = hearing one community - those subscribed to the developer mailing list. So I'm not assuming anything, it seems some are suggesting that Opera

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On Friday, May 1, 2015, Russell Bryant wrote: > On 05/01/2015 02:22 PM, Tim Bell wrote: > > > > The spec review process has made it much easier for operators to see > > what is being proposed and give input. > > > > Recognition is a different topic. It also comes into who would be the > > operato

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 05/01/2015 02:22 PM, Tim Bell wrote: > > The spec review process has made it much easier for operators to see > what is being proposed and give input. > > Recognition is a different topic. It also comes into who would be the > operator/user electorate ? ATC is simple to define where the equiva

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

e questions)" mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>> Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 6:06 PM To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC cand

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-05-01 09:06:20 -0700: > So this is an interesting idea. Would we require operators co-author/review > all patches that land? if not (and that actually strikes me as making > uploading patches more difficult unnecessarily), My question is how > Operators c

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

So this is an interesting idea. Would we require operators co-author/review all patches that land? if not (and that actually strikes me as making uploading patches more difficult unnecessarily), My question is how Operators can easily get involved with that process. If Operators want to get recogn

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Davanum Srinivas wrote: One concrete suggestion based on my experience working with Kris Lindgren on Heartbeat patch: http://markmail.org/message/gifrt5f3mslco24j I could have added a "Co-Tested-By" (or "Co-Operator" - get it? :) in my commit message which would have signaled a concrete contribu

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 1 May 2015 at 13:24, Davanum Srinivas wrote: > One concrete suggestion based on my experience working with Kris > Lindgren on Heartbeat patch: > http://markmail.org/message/gifrt5f3mslco24j > > I could have added a "Co-Tested-By" (or "Co-Operator" - get it? :) in > my commit message which would

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

One concrete suggestion based on my experience working with Kris Lindgren on Heartbeat patch: http://markmail.org/message/gifrt5f3mslco24j I could have added a "Co-Tested-By" (or "Co-Operator" - get it? :) in my commit message which would have signaled a concrete contribution/feedback with specifi

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

I think it's easy to quantify a code contributor since we have systems that monitor activity - who contributed, what they contributed and when. But we don't have a system that monitors operator activity and honestly, that's the question mark for which I really don't have any answers. That might be

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On Thu, 2015-04-30 at 12:26 +0200, Flavio Percoco wrote: > I've seen the number of threads to discuss Ops topics increase in > openstack-dev and the influence of Ops - even just points of views > inherited from the feedback we've got - on reviews has gotten better > as well. Fantastic, that has al

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

For the record, thanks for your replies guys. I am not suggesting any specific means to resolve or suggesting what we're doing is wrong; only that the current structure seems odd. The TC charter, as I read it, states that the TC committee represents everything of a technical nature of OpenStack vi

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 30/04/15 12:07 +0300, Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote: On 04/30/15 10:15, Thierry Carrez wrote: Doug Hellmann wrote: Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the developer community but TC candidates talk about representing the operator

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On 04/30/15 10:15, Thierry Carrez wrote: Doug Hellmann wrote: Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the developer community but TC candidates talk about representing the operator community who are not allowed to vote. Operators meaning Admins, Architects, etc. It soun

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Doug Hellmann wrote: >> Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the >> developer community but TC candidates talk about representing the operator >> community who are not allowed to vote. Operators meaning Admins, >> Architects, etc. It sounds like this is something most TC

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

Excerpts from Adam Lawson's message of 2015-04-29 11:34:40 -0700: > So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but didn't want > to hi-jack that so I figured I'd present my question as a more general > question about how voting is handled for the TC. > > Anyway, I find it curious

Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

On Apr 29, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Adam Lawson wrote: > Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the > developer community but TC candidates talk about representing the operator > community who are not allowed to vote. Operators meaning Admins, Architects, > etc. It sounds li

[openstack-dev] [tc] Who is allowed to vote for TC candidates

So I started replying to Doug's email in a different thread but didn't want to hi-jack that so I figured I'd present my question as a more general question about how voting is handled for the TC. Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the developer community but TC candid