Routing tables (Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view)

2006-07-06 Thread Kari Hurtta
> Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > Daniel, > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 05:49:41PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > > > >>>Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing > >>>entries. > >>>Which implies that you'll have difficulties with devices that should exist > >>>and be vi

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread Eric W. Biederman
jamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, 2006-30-06 at 12:22 -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> >> Anyway Jamal can you see the problem the aliases present to the > implementation? >> > > I think more than anything i may have a different view of things and no > code ;-> And you are trying t

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread jamal
On Fri, 2006-30-06 at 12:22 -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > Anyway Jamal can you see the problem the aliases present to the > implementation? > I think more than anything i may have a different view of things and no code ;-> And you are trying to restore order in the discussion - so my wil

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread Eric W. Biederman
jamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > > Then the pragmatic question becomes how to correlate what you see from >> > > `ip addr list' to guests. >> > >> > on the host ip addr and the one seen on the guest side are the same. >> > Except one is seen (on the host) on guest0-eth0 and another is seen

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Jamal, On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 09:50:52AM -0400, jamal wrote: > > BTW - I was just looking at openvz, very impressive. To the other folks, Thanks! > I am not putting down any of your approaches - just havent > had time to study them. Andrey, this is the same thing you guys have > been working o

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread jamal
Hi Andrey, BTW - I was just looking at openvz, very impressive. To the other folks, I am not putting down any of your approaches - just havent had time to study them. Andrey, this is the same thing you guys have been working on for a few years now, you just changed the name, correct? Ok, since yo

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-30 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Hi Jamal, On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 08:15:52PM -0400, jamal wrote: > On Fri, 2006-30-06 at 09:07 +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: [snip] > > We plan to have them separate - so for > > that to work, each network namespace could have an arbitrary "prefix" > > that determines what the interface name will look

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-29 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 08:15:52PM -0400, jamal wrote: > On Fri, 2006-30-06 at 09:07 +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: > > jamal wrote: > > > > Makes sense for the host side to have naming convention tied > > > to the guest. Example as a prefix: guest0-eth0. Would it not > > > be interesting to have the ho

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-29 Thread Sam Vilain
Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> Makes sense for the host side to have naming convention tied >> to the guest. Example as a prefix: guest0-eth0. Would it not >> be interesting to have the host also manage these interfaces >> via standard tools like ip or ifconfig etc? i.e if i admin up >> guest0-eth0, t

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-29 Thread jamal
On Fri, 2006-30-06 at 09:07 +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: > jamal wrote: > > Makes sense for the host side to have naming convention tied > > to the guest. Example as a prefix: guest0-eth0. Would it not > > be interesting to have the host also manage these interfaces > > via standard tools like ip or i

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-29 Thread Sam Vilain
jamal wrote: >> note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing >> the device names so that each guest can have a separate >> name space for devices, but there should be a way to >> 'see' _and_ 'identify' the interfaces from outside >> (i.e. host or spectator context) >> >> > > Makes

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:19:00PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > Hi Jamal, > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:53:23AM -0400, jamal wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 15:36 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > > > > note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing > > > the device names so t

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:36:40AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:31:05PM +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: > >> Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> > Have a few more network interfaces for a layer 2 solution > >> > is fundamental. B

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
jamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Andrey, > > On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 18:19 +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: >> Hi Jamal, >> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:53:23AM -0400, jamal wrote: >> > > >> >> Seeing guestXX-eth0 interfaces by standard tools has certain attractive >> sides. But it creates a l

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Andrey Savochkin
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 12:17:35PM -0400, jamal wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 18:19 +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > > > Seeing guestXX-eth0 interfaces by standard tools has certain attractive > > sides. But it creates a lot of undesired side effects. > > > > I apologize because i butted

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Have a few more network interfaces for a layer 2 solution >> is fundamental. Believing without proof and after arguments >> to the contrary that you have not contradicted that a layer 2 >> solution is inherently slower is non-productive. > > assumin

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread jamal
Andrey, On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 18:19 +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > Hi Jamal, > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:53:23AM -0400, jamal wrote: > > > > Seeing guestXX-eth0 interfaces by standard tools has certain attractive > sides. But it creates a lot of undesired side effects. > I apologize be

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:31:05PM +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: >> Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> > Have a few more network interfaces for a layer 2 solution >> > is fundamental. Believing without proof and after arguments >> > to the contrary that you have n

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 00:52 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: >> seriously, what I think Eric meant was that it >> might be nice (especially for migration purposes) >> to keep the device namespace completely virtualized >> and not just isolated ... > > It might

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
jamal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 15:36 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > >> note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing >> the device names so that each guest can have a separate >> name space for devices, but there should be a way to >> 'see' _and_ 'identify' th

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:31:05PM +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: > Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > Have a few more network interfaces for a layer 2 solution > > is fundamental. Believing without proof and after arguments > > to the contrary that you have not contradicted that a layer 2 > > solution is inh

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > last time I pointed to such 'misguided' apps which > made assumptions that are not necessarily true > inside a virtual environment (e.g. pstree, initpid) > the general? position was that those apps should > be fixed instead adding a 'workaround' I agr

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Hi Jamal, On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:53:23AM -0400, jamal wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 15:36 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > > note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing > > the device names so that each guest can have a separate > > name space for devices, but there should be

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:07:29PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:29:39AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >> I watched the linux-vserver irc channel for a while and

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread jamal
On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 15:36 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > note: personally I'm absolutely not against virtualizing > the device names so that each guest can have a separate > name space for devices, but there should be a way to > 'see' _and_ 'identify' the interfaces from outside > (i.e. host or

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:38:14PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Alexey Kuznetsov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Hello! > > > >> It may look weird, but do application really *need* to see eth0 rather > >> than eth858354? > > > > Applications do not care, humans do. :-) > > > > What's about

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-28 Thread Cedric Le Goater
Hi ! Eric W. Biederman wrote: [ ... ] > So just to sink one additional nail in the coffin of the silly > guest to guest communication issue. For any two guests where > fast communication between them is really important I can run > an additional interface pair that requires no routing or bridgi

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Sam Vilain
Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Have a few more network interfaces for a layer 2 solution > is fundamental. Believing without proof and after arguments > to the contrary that you have not contradicted that a layer 2 > solution is inherently slower is non-productive. Arguing > that a layer 2 only solut

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:29:39AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I watched the linux-vserver irc channel for a while and almost >> every network problem was caused by the change in semantics >> vserv

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Alexey Kuznetsov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hello! > >> It may look weird, but do application really *need* to see eth0 rather >> than eth858354? > > Applications do not care, humans do. :-) > > What's about applications they just need to see exactly the same device > after migration. Not only

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Alexey Kuznetsov
Hello! > It may look weird, but do application really *need* to see eth0 rather > than eth858354? Applications do not care, humans do. :-) What's about applications they just need to see exactly the same device after migration. Not only name, but f.e. also its ifindex. If you do not create a sep

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Dave Hansen
On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 00:52 +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > seriously, what I think Eric meant was that it > might be nice (especially for migration purposes) > to keep the device namespace completely virtualized > and not just isolated ... It might be nice, but it is probably unneeded for an initi

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:29:39AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:54:51PM +0400, Kirill Korotaev wrote: > >> >>My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and > >> >>your packets are being routed onl

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:07:38AM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: > Ben Greear wrote: > >Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > > >>On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:13:17PM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: > > > >>yes, that sounds good to me, any numbers how that > >>affects networking in general (performance wise and > >>memory w

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 10:19:23AM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: > Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >>On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 05:52:52AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> > >>>Inside the containers I want all network devices named eth0! > >> > >>huh? ev

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Ben Greear
Eric W. Biederman wrote: Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 05:52:52AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: Inside the containers I want all network devices named eth0! huh? even if there are two of them? also tun? I think you meant, you want to be able to have

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Alexey Kuznetsov
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 06:02:42PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > - loopback traffic inside a guest is insignificantly >slower than on a normal system > > - loopback traffic on the host is insignificantly >slower than on a normal system > > - inter guest traffic is faster than on-wire

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 05:52:52AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> >> Inside the containers I want all network devices named eth0! > > huh? even if there are two of them? also tun? > > I think you meant, you want to be able to have eth0 in > _more_

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:09:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: >> >> I'd like to caution about over-optimizing communications between >> different network namespaces. Many optimizations of local traffic >> (such as high MTU) don't look so appealing

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:54:51PM +0400, Kirill Korotaev wrote: >> >>My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and >> >>your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability >> >>to have separate routing tables in each nam

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Herbert, On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 05:48:19PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:09:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:02:25PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > > > > > - traffic between guests > > >can be as high (or even higher) than

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Ben Greear
Ben Greear wrote: Herbert Poetzl wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:13:17PM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: yes, that sounds good to me, any numbers how that affects networking in general (performance wise and memory wise, i.e. caches and hashes) ... I'll run some tests later today. Based on my

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:54:51PM +0400, Kirill Korotaev wrote: > >>My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and > >>your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability > >>to have separate routing tables in each namespace. > > > > > >Right. What is the advantage o

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 05:52:52AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, > and your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability > to have separate routing tables in e

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:09:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > Herbert, > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:02:25PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > > > keep in mind that you actually have three kinds > > of network traffic on a typical host/guest system: > > > > - traffic between unit and outs

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability to have separate routing tables in each namespace. >>> >>>Right. What is the advantage of having separate the rou

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Daniel, On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:21:02PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > >>>My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and > >>>your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability > >>>to have separate routing tables in each namespace. > >> > >>Right. What is the ad

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Daniel Lezcano
My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability to have separate routing tables in each namespace. Right. What is the advantage of having separate the routing tables ? Routing is everything. For example, I want

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Kirill Korotaev
My point is that if you make namespace tagging at routing time, and your packets are being routed only once, you lose the ability to have separate routing tables in each namespace. Right. What is the advantage of having separate the routing tables ? it is impossible to have bridged networking,

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Andrey Savochkin
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 11:34:36AM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > Daniel, > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 05:49:41PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > > > >>>Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing > >>>entries. > >>>Which implies that you'll

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Daniel Lezcano
Andrey Savochkin wrote: Daniel, On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 05:49:41PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing entries. Which implies that you'll have difficulties with devices that should exist and be visible in one namespace only (like tu

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Herbert, On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:02:25PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > keep in mind that you actually have three kinds > of network traffic on a typical host/guest system: > > - traffic between unit and outside >- host traffic should be quite minimal >- guest traffic will be quite

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-27 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Daniel, On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 05:49:41PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > > > Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing > > entries. > > Which implies that you'll have difficulties with devices that should exist > > and be visible in one namespace only (like tunnels),

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Ben Greear
Herbert Poetzl wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:13:17PM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: yes, that sounds good to me, any numbers how that affects networking in general (performance wise and memory wise, i.e. caches and hashes) ... I'll run some tests later today. Based on my previous tests, I don

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:13:17PM -0700, Ben Greear wrote: > Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > >Basically it is just a matter of: > >if (dest_mac == my_mac1) it is for device 1. > >If (dest_mac == my_mac2) it is for device 2. > >etc. > > > >At a small count of macs it is trivial to understand it will

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Ben Greear
Eric W. Biederman wrote: Basically it is just a matter of: if (dest_mac == my_mac1) it is for device 1. If (dest_mac == my_mac2) it is for device 2. etc. At a small count of macs it is trivial to understand it will go fast for a larger count of macs it only works with a good data structure. We

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 02:37:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >> > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:35:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > >> > yes,

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Ben Greear
Herbert Poetzl wrote: On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 02:37:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:35:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: yes, but you will not be able to apply policy

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 02:37:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:35:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > yes, but you will not be able to apply policy on > > the

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:35:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > > yes, but you will not be able to apply policy on > the parent, restricting the child networking in a > proper way without jumping th

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:35:15PM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:40:59AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > >> Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> >> Then you lose the ability for each namespace to hav

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:40:59AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: >> Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >> >> Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own >> >> routing entries. Which implies that you'll have difficulties wi

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 06:08:03PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > not at all, maybe you should take a closer look at the > current Linux-VServer implementation, which is quite > simple and _does_ allow guests to bind to IP_ANY quite > fine, only the

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:40:59AM -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own > >> routing entries. Which implies that you'll have difficulties with > >> devices that should exist and be visible i

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 06:08:03PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > Hi Herbert, > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:02:03PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:47:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > > > > I see a fundamental problem with this approach. When a device > > > p

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing entries. >> Which implies that you'll have difficulties with devices that should exist >> and be visible in one namespace only (like tunnels), as they require IP >> addresses and rout

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Daniel Lezcano
Then you lose the ability for each namespace to have its own routing entries. Which implies that you'll have difficulties with devices that should exist and be visible in one namespace only (like tunnels), as they require IP addresses and route. I mean instead of having the route tables privat

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Andrey Savochkin wrote: >> Hi Daniel, > > Hi Andrey, > >> It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion. >> Although I wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier >> :). > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? > >> When a device presen

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Daniel, On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 04:56:32PM +0200, Daniel Lezcano wrote: > Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > > > It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion. > > Although I wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier > > :). > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Daniel Lezcano
Andrey Savochkin wrote: Hi Daniel, Hi Andrey, It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion. Although I wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier :). [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? When a device presents an skb to the protocol layer, it needs to know to which name

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Hi Herbert, On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 03:02:03PM +0200, Herbert Poetzl wrote: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:47:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > > > I see a fundamental problem with this approach. When a device presents > > an skb to the protocol layer, it needs to know to which namespace this >

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Eric W. Biederman
Herbert Poetzl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:47:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: >> Hi Daniel, >> >> It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion Although I. >> wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier :) . > >> Indeed, the firs

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Herbert Poetzl
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 01:47:11PM +0400, Andrey Savochkin wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion Although I. > wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier :) . > Indeed, the first point to agree in this discussion is device list.

Re: [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-26 Thread Andrey Savochkin
Hi Daniel, It's good that you kicked off network namespace discussion. Although I wish you'd Cc'ed someone at OpenVZ so I could notice it earlier :). Indeed, the first point to agree in this discussion is device list. In your patch, you essentially introduce a data structure parallel to the main

Re: [RFC] [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-18 Thread Al Viro
On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 11:02:04PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > + read_lock(&dev_base_lock); > + > + for (dev = dev_base; dev; dev = dev->next) > + if (!strncmp(dev->name, devname, IFNAMSIZ)) > + break; > + > + if (!dev) { > + ret = -ENO

Re: [RFC] [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-11 Thread Andrew Morton
On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 23:02:04 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > +int net_ns_dev_add(const char *devname, > +struct net_ns_dev_list *devlist) > +{ > + struct net_ns_dev *db; > + struct net_device *dev; > + int ret = 0; > + > + read_lock(&dev_base_lock); > + > + for

[RFC] [patch 2/6] [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view

2006-06-09 Thread dlezcano
Adds to the network namespace a device list view. This view is emptied when the unshare is done. The view is filled/emptied by a set of function which can be called by an external module. Replace-Subject: [Network namespace] Network device sharing by view Signed-off-by: Daniel Lezcano <[EMAIL PROT