Re: Facebook post-mortems...

Actually for card readers, the offline verification nature of certificates is probably a nice property. But client certs pose all sorts of other problems like their scalability, ease of making changes (roles, etc), and other kinds of considerations that make you want to fetch more information o

Re: Better description of what happened

On 10/5/21 3:09 PM, Andy Brezinsky wrote: It's a few years old, but Facebook has talked a little bit about their DNS infrastructure before.  Here's a little clip that talks about Cartographer: https://youtu.be/bxhYNfFeVF4?t=2073 From their outage report, it sounds like their authoritative D

DNS pulling BGP routes?

So if I understand their post correctly, their DNS servers have the ability to withdraw routes if they determine are sub-optimal (fsvo). I can certainly understand for the DNS servers to not give answers they think are unreachable but there is always the problem that they may be partitioned and

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/6/21 2:33 PM, William Herrin wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM Michael Thomas wrote: So if I understand their post correctly, their DNS servers have the ability to withdraw routes if they determine are sub-optimal (fsvo). The servers' IP addresses are anycasted. When one

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/6/21 2:58 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Wed, 6 Oct 2021, Michael Thomas wrote: On 10/6/21 2:33 PM, William Herrin wrote:  On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:43 AM Michael Thomas wrote:  So if I understand their post correctly, their DNS servers have the  ability to withdraw routes if they

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/6/21 3:33 PM, Jon Lewis wrote: On Wed, 6 Oct 2021, Michael Thomas wrote:  People have been anycasting DNS server IPs for years (decades?). So, no. But it wasn't just their DNS subnets that were pulled, I thought. I'm obviously really confused. Anycast to a DNS server m

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that's called "gambling", and I have very little sympathy for businesses that gamble and lo

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 12:49 AM, Matthew Petach wrote: Instead of a 4K stream, drop it to 480 or 240; the eyeball network should be happy at the reduced strain the resulting stream puts on their network. As a consumer paying for my 4k stream, I know who I'm calling when it drops to 480 and it ain't Net

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/18/21 11:09 AM, Sabri Berisha wrote: The term "network neutrality" was invented by people who want to control a network owned and paid for by someone else. Your version of "unreasonable" and my version of "unreasonable" are on the opposite end of the spectrum. I think it is unreasonable

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/18/21 12:22 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote: - On Oct 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Michael Thomas m...@mtcc.com wrote: Hi, On 10/18/21 11:09 AM, Sabri Berisha wrote: The term "network neutrality" was invented by people who want to control a network owned and paid for by someone e

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

On 10/18/21 1:51 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote: I know that there are a lot of risks with hamfisted gubbermint regulations. But even when StarLink turns the sky into perpetual daylight and we get another provider, there are going to still be painfully few choices, and too often the response to $EVIL

Re: Network visibility

On 10/20/21 8:26 AM, Mel Beckman wrote: Mark, As long as we’re being pedantic, January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet, when TCP/IP first let different kinds of computers on different networks talk to each other. It’s 2021, hence the Internet is /less/ than, not

Re: Network visibility

tion of "internetworking" - of which there was a considerable amount of experimental work going on, in parallel with TCP/IP.  And of (small i) "internets" - essentially any Catenet style network-of-networks. Miles Fidelman Mel Beckman wrote: Michael, “Looking into” isn’t

Re: Network visibility

upport the full 4G address space to laughs and guffaws from panel. Mike - James R. Cutler - james.cut...@consultant.com GPG keys: hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net cell 734-673-5462 On Oct 20, 2021, at 3:09 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: I think the issuing of rfc 791 was much more importan

Re:

Just as an interesting aside if you're interested in the history of networking, When Wizards Stayed Up Late is quite elucidating. Mike On 10/20/21 2:16 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: *Mel Beckman*mel at beckman.org

Internet history

[changed to a more appropriate subject] On 10/20/21 3:52 PM, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote: On 10/20/21 3:26 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: Just as an interesting aside if you're interested in the history of networking, When Wizards Stayed Up Late is quite elucidating. +10 to Where Wizards St

Re: Internet history

On 10/21/21 11:52 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: On Oct 21, 2021, at 2:37 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: [changed to a more appropriate subject] On 10/20/21 3:52 PM, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote: On 10/20/21 3:26 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: Just as an interesting aside if you're interested i

Re: DOJ files suit to enforce FCC penalty for robocalls

On 10/21/21 10:57 AM, Sean Donelan wrote: The multi-million dollar fines announced with great fanfaire by the Federal Communication Commission are almost never collected. The FCC doesn't have enforcement authority to collect fines. The FCC usually withholds license renewals until penalties

ipv4 on mobile networks

So I'm curious how the mobile operators deploying ipv6 to the handsets are dealing with ipv4. The simplest would be to get the phone a routable ipv4 address, but that would seemingly exacerbate the reason they went to v6 in the first place. Are carriers NAT'ing somewhere along the line? If so,

Re: ipv4 on mobile networks

On 10/23/21 11:52 AM, Ca By wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 10:33 AM Michael Thomas wrote: So I'm curious how the mobile operators deploying ipv6 to the handsets are dealing with ipv4. The simplest would be to get the phone a routable ipv4 address, but that would seem

Re: Redeploying most of 127/8, 0/8, 240/4 and *.0 as unicast

On 11/19/21 8:27 AM, Randy Bush wrote: these measurements would be great if there could be a full research- style paper, with methodology artifacts, and reproducible results. otherwise it disappears in the gossip stream of mailimg lists. Maybe an experimental rfc making it a rfc 1918-like subn

Re: Redeploying most of 127/8, 0/8, 240/4 and *.0 as unicast

On 11/19/21 7:38 AM, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote: Actually, CIDR didn’t require upgrading every end-node, just some of them. That’s what made it doable… Updating only routers, not end-nodes. Another thing that made it doable is that there were a LOT fewer end-nodes and a much smaller vendor s

Re: Redeploying most of 127/8, 0/8, 240/4 and *.0 as unicast

On 11/19/21 10:15 AM, William Herrin wrote: On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 10:04 AM Michael Thomas wrote: I don't think you can overstate how ASIC's made changing anything pretty much impossible. It's why all of the pissing and moaning about what ipv6 looked like completely missed t

Re: is ipv6 fast, was silly Redeploying

On 11/19/21 2:44 PM, John Levine wrote: It appears that Michael Thomas said: And just as impossible since it would pop it out of the fast path. Does big iron support ipv6 these days? My research associate Ms. Google advises me that Juniper does: https://www.juniper.net/documentation/us/en

Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

On 11/20/21 10:44 AM, Chris Adams wrote: [] There is just as big a block of addresses with class D addresses for broadcast. Is broadcast really even a thing these days? I know tons of work went into it, but it always seemed that brute force and ignorance won out using unicast. Even if it ha

Re: Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

On 11/20/21 11:41 AM, Jay Hennigan wrote: On 11/20/21 11:01, Michael Thomas wrote: There is just as big a block of addresses with class D addresses for broadcast. Is broadcast really even a thing these days? I know tons of work went into it, but it always seemed that brute force and

Re: Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

On 11/20/21 11:51 AM, William Herrin wrote: If I had to guess, changing 224/4 is probably the biggest lift. The other proposals mainly involve altering configuration, removing some possibly hardcoded filters and in a few cases waiting for silicon to age out of the system. Changing 224/4 means

Re: Class D addresses? was: Redploying most of 127/8 as unicast public

On 11/20/21 12:37 PM, William Herrin wrote: On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 12:03 PM Michael Thomas wrote: Was it the politics of ipv6 that this didn't get resolved in the 90's when it was a lot more tractable? No, in the '90s we didn't have nearly the basis for looking ahead.

Re: Redeploying most of 127/8, 0/8, 240/4 and *.0 as unicast

On 11/20/21 9:29 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote: On 11/19/21 10:27, William Herrin wrote: Howdy, That depends on your timeline. Do you know many non-technical people still using their Pentium III computers with circa 2001 software versions? Connected to the Internet? There are lots of very old netw

Re: multihoming

On 11/25/21 11:54 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote: Christopher Morrow writes: Also, for completeness, MP-TCP clearly does not help UDP or ICMP flows... nor IPSEC nor GRE nor... unless you HTTP over MP-TCP and encap UDP/ICMP/GRE/IPSEC over that! IP over DNS has been a thing forever. IP over DoH should

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/26/21 1:44 PM, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote: Here are some maths and 1 argument kicking ass pitch for CFO’s that use iphones. *Apple tells app devs to use IPv6 as it's 1.4 times faster than IPv4* https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-tells-app-devs-to-use-ipv6-as-its-1-4-times-faster

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/26/21 3:11 PM, Ca By wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:07 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 11/26/21 1:44 PM, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote: Here are some maths and 1 argument kicking ass pitch for CFO’s that use iphones. *Apple tells app devs to use IPv6 as it'

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/26/21 4:15 PM, Jean St-Laurent wrote: We now have apple and fb saying ipv6 is faster than ipv4. If we can onboard Amazon, Netflix, Google and some others, then it is a done deal that ipv6 is indeed faster than ipv4. Hence, an easy argument to tell your CFO that you need IPv6 for your

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

a start, I guess. Before all they had was some weird VPN something or other. Let me guess though: they are monetizing their market failure. Mike On Fri., Nov. 26, 2021, 19:28 Michael Thomas, wrote: On 11/26/21 4:15 PM, Jean St-Laurent wrote: We now have apple and fb saying ipv6

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

Mike *From:*Michael Thomas *Sent:* November 26, 2021 7:37 PM *To:* Oliver O'Boyle *Cc:* Jean St-Laurent ; Ca By ; North American Network Operators' Group *Subject:* Re: IPv6 and CDN's That's a start, I guess. Before all they had was some weird VPN something or other.

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/27/21 7:46 AM, Scott Morizot wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Oliver O'Boyle wrote: They're getting better at it, at least. They also recently added v6 support in their NLBs and you can get a /56 for every VPC for direct access. I don't think they offer BYO v6 yet, as

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/27/21 12:16 PM, William Herrin wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 3:07 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 11/26/21 1:44 PM, Jean St-Laurent via NANOG wrote: Here are some maths and 1 argument kicking ass pitch for CFO’s that use iphones. Apple tells app devs to use IPv6 as it's 1.4 times f

Re: IPv6 and CDN's

On 11/27/21 2:22 PM, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote: Actually, I think it’s in the fine print here… “Connection setup is 1.4 times faster”. I can believe that NAT adds almost 40% overhead to the connection setup (3-way handshake) and some of the differences in packet handling in the fast path be

Re: AWS and IPv6

On 11/27/21 2:44 PM, Fletcher Kittredge wrote: The Register says: AWS claims 'monumental step forward' with optional IPv6-only networks I was reading their howto yesterday and it see

Re: AWS and IPv6

On 11/28/21 1:17 PM, Karl Auer wrote: On Sun, 2021-11-28 at 12:53 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: I was reading their howto yesterday and it seems they are only allocating a /64? Why? That's a /64 *per subnet*... But the size of a VPC's IPv6 CIDR block does seem to be fixed at /56.

Re: AWS and IPv6

On 11/28/21 3:50 PM, Matt Palmer wrote: On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 02:10:40PM -0800, William Herrin wrote: On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 1:18 PM Karl Auer wrote: On Sun, 2021-11-28 at 12:53 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: I was reading their howto yesterday and it seems they are only allocating a /64

private 5G networks?

https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/11/preview-aws-private-5g/ Why would somebody want this over wifi? And what spectrum are they using? They can't just camp on allocated spectrum, right? Mike

Re: private 5G networks?

short distance. Other than handoff what other advantages does it have over wifi (can wifi do seamless l2 handoff these days?) Mike On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM Michael Thomas wrote: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2021/11/preview-aws-private-5g/ Why would somebody want

Re: private 5G networks?

On 11/30/21 12:43 PM, Shane Ronan wrote: What do you mean 3rd Tier? General Authorized Access? Taken from some random site looking it up. Mike On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 2:47 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 11/30/21 11:38 AM, Shane Ronan wrote: The spectrum is CBRS and there are MANY

Re: private 5G networks?

27;s in premise would that really matter much? I mean if I tried to set up an AP in an Amazon warehouse I assume they wouldn't be too happy about that. Mike Shane On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 3:45 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 11/30/21 12:43 PM, Shane Ronan wrote: What

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 10:15 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: On Jan 12, 2022, at 11:35 AM, Scott T Anderson via NANOG wrote: Hi NANOG mailing list, I am a graduate student, currently conducting research on how power outages affect home Internet users. I know that the FCC has a regulation since 2015 (47 CFR

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 10:43 AM, Dave Taht wrote: I too see very little gear protected by a UPS. In nicaragua, even, when I lived there, and the power flickered 6x times a day, "normal" people just accepted it. However, with the huge implosion of battery costs and increase in power from the cellphone revo

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 11:25 AM, Fred Baker wrote: On Jan 12, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG wrote: On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 10:18 AM Andy Ringsmuth wrote: Given that most people barely even know what their home router is, I suspect the percentage would be somewhere south of 1 percent

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 10:54 AM, Shawn L via NANOG wrote: In $dayjob I work for a telco that deploys fiber to the home.  If we are providing voice services over fiber a battery backup is installed (we maintain) that powers the customer's phone in the event of a power outage.  It does not power their rou

Re: home router battery backup

11:43 AM Michael Thomas wrote: On 1/12/22 11:25 AM, Fred Baker wrote: > >> On Jan 12, 2022, at 10:37 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 10:18 AM Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >> Given that most people barely eve

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 9:21 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/12/22 21:41, Michael Thomas wrote: We just installed a battery too, but it will probably only last ~1 day and much less than that in winter. We're in the process of looking at a generator that interfaces directly with the inverter so th

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/12/22 3:11 PM, Scott T Anderson via NANOG wrote: Hi everyone, Thanks very much for all the responses throughout the day. They are very helpful. Your (collective) answers triggered a couple follow-on questions: For those individuals with backup battery power for their modem/router, do

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/13/22 8:22 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/13/22 17:56, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG wrote: I bought one of those power monitors and tossed it on the circuit that goes into my house.  At *night* when everything is off, I might get down as far as ~800 watts. During the day it's more like 2

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/17/22 2:39 PM, Jordan wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 02:06:39PM -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: For my ISP, they maintain backup power for both DSL and POTS. I suspect that for a lot of DSL that would hold true because it's relatively easy for them to power since they already hav

What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be having this fight now, right? Mike

Re: home router battery backup

On 1/18/22 12:24 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/18/22 18:15, Joe Maimon wrote: Now how about some programming available so you can decide what thresholds and conditions remote start your genny which powers the rectifier which substitutes|augments the solar array? Any half decent battery in

Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

On 1/18/22 1:25 PM, Mel Beckman wrote: Michael, Here’s a recent PCmag editorial on the subject, and it seems like many people want to put Internet speed above airline safety: https://www.pcmag.com/news/faa-goes-in-hard-to-kill-mid-band-5g

Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

On 1/18/22 1:47 PM, Brandon Martin wrote: On 01/18/2022 16:34, Michael Thomas wrote: Is this the band that has really really short range for 5G? If so, it doesn't seem like a very big deal to give them the airspace on approaches. I mean, if you live under a flight path by the airport,

What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don't think that AWS brings much more than compute for the most part so I don't really get why this would be a huge win. A win maybe, but a huge win? I can certainly

Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

On 1/21/22 10:44 AM, Jay Hennigan wrote: FAA puts all kinds of restrictions on what equipment is required to perform certain maneuvers. You need a localizer, glideslope, etc. for instrument landings. Radars are made today that can reject out-of-band interference. If FAA simply required a ce

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

On 1/25/22 6:02 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/25/22 15:45, Masataka Ohta wrote: As is stated in free part of the article that: The country’s three biggest carriers, AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile, have offered 5G connectivity but in practice this differed little from the earlier 4G.

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

like since I subscribe Mike On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:12 AM Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/19/22 21:52, Michael Thomas wrote: > > There was an article in the Economist (sorry if it's paywalled) about > Dish entering the mobile market using an AWS backend. I don

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

On 1/25/22 11:44 AM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:11 AM Michael Thomas wrote: [...] Since everybody has their own wifi it seems that federating all of them for pretty good coverage by a provider and charging a nominal fee to manage it would suit a

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

On 1/26/22 7:10 AM, Tom Beecher wrote: For some folk, the risk of money cost outweighs the risk of loss of direct operational control. Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to anticipate becaus

Re: What do you think about the "cloudification" of mobile?

On 1/26/22 11:11 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 1/26/22 17:10, Tom Beecher wrote: Those folks also tend to learn hard lessons about what happens when the Magic Cloud provider fails in a way that isn't possible to anticipate because it's all black box. Saving 12 months of opex $ sounds great,

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose". On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has a lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complic

Re: New minimum speed for US broadband connections

t haven't installed the NID. Mike On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose". On

Re: BANDWIDTH and VONAGE lose FCC rules exemption for STIR/SHAKEN

On 2/17/22 11:58 AM, Sean Donelan wrote: https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-finds-two-providers-failed-fully-implement-stirshaken-0 The Federal Communications Commission today took action to ensure that voice service providers meet their commitments and obligations to implement STIR/SHAKEN

Re: BANDWIDTH and VONAGE lose FCC rules exemption for STIR/SHAKEN

eal? Mike On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 2/17/22 11:58 AM, Sean Donelan wrote: > > https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-finds-two-providers-failed-fully-implement-stirshaken-0 > > > The Federal Communications Commission today

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

On 2/28/22 2:55 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/28/ukraine-updates-starlink-satellite-dishes.html As a practical matter how does this help? You need to have base stations/dishes, right? Can they be beefy ones that can pump out gigabytes that would be capable of backf

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

On 2/28/22 4:29 PM, Karl Auer wrote: On Mon, 2022-02-28 at 16:17 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote: As a practical matter how does this help? You need to have base stations/dishes, right? Anyone with a dish and power can connect to the Internet. That's it. If a dish owner chooses to allo

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

On 3/2/22 9:32 AM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote: On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said: Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill, and SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up Yes, Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendou

Re: Starlink terminal visual camouflage tests vs improvised fabric materials

Bravo! Data! Mike On 3/2/22 5:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: I have just completed some very unscientific tests of DIY camouflage materials vs a starlink terminal. Obviously there is a lot of possible discussion that is possible about spectrum analyzers, direction finding, jammers, etc within the

Cogent cutting links to Russia?

I know the link is paywalled, but it's super high level so not much is lost. But what does everybody think of this? I imagine that just Cogent cutting them off isn't going to make much difference. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-internet-cogent-cutoff/ Mi

Re: Cogent cutting links to Russia?

here's a Reuters which shouldn't be paywalled. https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-firm-cogent-cutting-internet-service-russia-2022-03-04/ Mike On 3/4/22 12:02 PM, Anne Mitchell wrote: The link will not connect, cannot make secure connection with archive.php. Here’s a paywall-free version

Re: Cogent cutting links to Russia?

On 3/4/22 2:03 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 12:55 PM Martin Hannigan wrote: I would argue they don't have much of a choice: "The economic sanctions put in place as a result of the invasion and the increasingly uncertain security situation make it impos

Re: Washington–Moscow Direct Communications Link

On 3/5/22 4:35 PM, Sean Donelan wrote: Since 2008, the Washington-Moscow Direct Communications Link (also known as "The Washington-Moscow Hotline") uses redundant circuits of two satellite links and a fiber-optic cable. They use commercial facilities for at least part of the circuits. Pas

VoLTE and SRTP

Hi, I was reading an article on why Russia hasn't taken out Ukraine's mobile networks and one of the premises was that they could use it to eavesdrop on calls. Depending on how old their infrastructure is, that doesn't make sense as I would assume that along with e2e SIP that they'd be using

Re: VoLTE and SRTP

On 3/8/22 2:17 PM, Brandon Svec wrote: I also read that the Russian military is depending on the mobile network for some (much?) of their own communication which isn't that surprising if the stories about their general ineptness are to be believed.  Maybe the reverse is happening and Ukraine a

Re: VoLTE and SRTP

On 3/8/22 4:32 PM, Tom Beecher wrote: Don't need to break phone to tower encryption when the vast majority of the call pathway is not encrypted. If it's VoLTE I assume it would be sips: Mike On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 4:59 PM Michael Thomas wrote: Hi, I was reading an arti

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/9/22 1:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6. Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints since 2006. Do customers ever complain about double NAT's? Mike On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:32 PM Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote: On 3/9/22 1:01 PM,

Re: V6 still not supported

tes a double NAT. I poked around and it seems that affects quite a few games. Mike On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:01 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/9/22 1:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: ISP here.  Deploying gigabit FTTH.  No IPv6. Customers have 0 complaints about IPv6.  0 Complaints

are underwater routers a thing?

I was reading an article in the Economist about a new fiber route down the Red Sea from Israel and wondered if there were any branches off of those lines and where the routers were for them. The route kind of made it look like it was completely at sea, but it would kind of make sense to leave t

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/17/22 3:30 AM, b...@uu3.net wrote: It seems team developing IPv6 had ONE way of doing things, with is actually recipe for disaster. Why? Because they were building an IP protocol. Something that will be using globally by ALL networks around. Not some local IOT (useless) shit used here and

Re: V6 still not supported

great excuse for why providers couldn't deploy v6 which they didn't want to do anyway. Mike The big question is, what we can do that to fix IPv6 problem. I have no clue at all.. Im personally biased against IPv6. -- Original message -- From: Michael Thomas To: n

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/18/22 12:54 PM, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: Michael Thomas writes: I really don't see why people think it's so different that v4. To me back then it mostly seemed like v4 with bigger address. Then I suppose, like me, you were in favor of the TUBA proposal? :) We weren

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/18/22 1:31 PM, Nathan Angelacos wrote: On Fri, 2022-03-18 at 13:17 -0700, Michael Thomas wrote: We weren't part of the wars. What I saw was what eventually became ipv6 and I remember talking to one of my coworkers about how hard he thought it would be to implement. He concurred th

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/18/22 2:32 PM, sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 13:47:00 -0700, Michael Thomas wrote: I'd really like to understand what the requirements that are specific to v6 are that make it so much harder or bloated. Not product availability, but actual things that ma

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/18/22 6:18 PM, b...@theworld.com wrote: I remember in the 80s getting into a rather detailed debate with an OSI fan about how OSI put at least authorization into what we'd call the IP layer roughly, CLNP/CLNS/TP0-4. A lot of it came down to you send me your initial handshake and I first s

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

stacks and having no clue which one was going "win". IPv6 in comparison was very familiar ground. To me it seemed that it was ipv4 with bigger addresses and that was about it. But I've never understood all of the strum und drang about ipv6. Mike On 3/19/22 3:30 AM, John Gilmore

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

On 3/19/22 1:44 PM, James R Cutler wrote: On Mar 19, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: IPv6 in comparison was very familiar ground. To me it seemed that it was ipv4 with bigger addresses and that was about it. But I've never understood all of the strum und drang about ipv6. A

IPv6 "bloat"

So out of the current discussions a lot of people have claimed that ipv6 is bloated or suffers from second system syndrome, etc. So I decided to look at a linux kernel (HEAD I assume) and look at the differences between the v6 and v4 directories. I just crudely did a line count as a quick me

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

ond though. What might those be? And it doesn't seem to be a show stopper for a lot of very large carriers. Mike On 3/19/22 5:29 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: So out of the current discussions a lot of people have claimed that ipv6 is bloated or suffers from second system syndrome, etc. So I

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

On 3/19/22 3:56 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: On 3/19/22 6:50 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/19/22 3:47 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: It has "features" which are at a minimum problematic and at a maximum show stoppers for network operators. IPv6 seems like it was designed to be a priva

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

rimary and largest glaring issue is that DHCPv6 from the client does not include the MAC address, it includes the (I believe) UUID. DHCPv6 Option 79 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6939 On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 6:58 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: On 3/19/22 6:50 PM, Michael Th

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/22/22 5:45 AM, Randy Bush wrote: john, fwiw your story matches what is left of my memory. one nuance That’s not to say that there wasn’t "IETF politics” involved, but rather that such politics were expressed as enormous pressure to “make a decision” my take was that cidr had done a lo

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/22/22 4:58 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 5:36 PM Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/22/22 5:45 AM, Randy Bush wrote: right would have had any better chance of being adopted? My experience with Cisco product managers at the time is that they couldn&#

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/22/22 10:34 PM, Joe Maimon wrote: There is this other side: I'm dualstack, and I simply dont notice. Being in transition state indefinitely is not success. The other side is when you are v6 only and you dont notice. We arent there yet. Thats the failure. This is a terrible way to

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/23/22 10:04 AM, Joe Maimon wrote: Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/22/22 10:34 PM, Joe Maimon wrote: There is this other side: I'm dualstack, and I simply dont notice. Being in transition state indefinitely is not success. The other side is when you are v6 only and you dont n

Re: V6 still not supported

On 3/23/22 11:53 AM, Joe Maimon wrote: Michael Thomas wrote: SIP won't displace all legacy PSTN any time soon. So it's a failure by your definition. And by your definition IPv6 was a failure before it was even born because the internet became popular -- something I'll

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