On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:11 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
The background issue is whether satellite-based systems at around
200 Kb/s and high latency can be defined as "broadband." Since
everyone in America - including the Alaskans - has access to
satellite services, defining that level of serv
- Original Message
From: James Downs
Except this is exactly what happened. The players with vested interests were
allowed a sort of "first refusal" on projects. In areas where they had lots of
customers, they passed on the projects. So, we find that in urban areas, you
can't get f
The problem is that if you break down the costs, you'll find out that
it almost doesn't matter what you put in as a cost of the total build;
the big costs are the engineering and the labor to install, not the
"cost of the NID" or anything like that. Nobody cares whether you
saved a million bucks
Rob, well put.
-jim
Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
-Original Message-
From: "Robert E. Seastrom"
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:29:58
To: Jack Bates
Cc: Robert Enger - NANOG;
Subject: Re: FCCs RFC for the Definition of Broadband
The problem is that if you
JC Dill wrote:
IMHO the biggest obstacle to defining broadband is figuring out how to
describe how it is used in a way that prevents an ILEC from installing
it so that only the ILEC can use it. If the customer doesn't have at
Oh, that's easy. If the government pays for 90% of the plant cost,
Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
The problem is that if you break down the costs, you'll find out that
it almost doesn't matter what you put in as a cost of the total build;
the big costs are the engineering and the labor to install, not the
"cost of the NID" or anything like that. Nobody cares whether
Perhaps the most practical service for both broadband and ALWAYS-on voice
service is one pair of copper (POTS) and one pair of fiber everything-else
per house.
Does anyone have a ballpark guess on the incremental cost of a strand-mile
(assuming the ditch is going to be dug and the cable put in it,
> JC Dill wrote:
> > IMHO the biggest obstacle to defining broadband is figuring out how to
> > describe how it is used in a way that prevents an ILEC from installing
> > it so that only the ILEC can use it. If the customer doesn't have at
>
> Oh, that's easy. If the government pays for 90% of
On Aug 28, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
The problem is that if you break down the costs, you'll find out that
it almost doesn't matter what you put in as a cost of the total
build;
the big costs are the engineering and the labor to install, not the
"cost of
Joe Greco wrote:
We've *already* subsidized the telcos $200 billion for a next generation
broadband-capable plant, that was supposed to be LEC-neutral...
Yeah, not every telco participated, though the RBOCs sure did.
So, we've *already* paid the plant cost, and we've gotten nothing much in
re
In a message written on Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 09:19:50AM -0500, Jack Bates wrote:
> Looking at just Oklahoma, I'm not sure AT&T could get even 200kb to
> every household for $200b.
For an interesting set of cost comparisons
In most locations every home has electrical service. What's the
cost
Oh, that's easy. If the government pays for 90% of the plant cost
There have been countless times where a local government wanted to
install the fiber *themselves*, only to have the ILEC file a lawsuit
and/or petition (bribe) the State Legislature to prevent installation.
Cheers,
Michael
Daniel Senie wrote:
Before you get too hung up on the emergency phone thing, take a hard
look at the present day. The telcos pushed SLC gear out everywhere.
I'm the network engineer for 12 ILECs. Over the last 10 years, I've seen
several major outages (> 48 hours) where voice has been maintai
Michael Holstein wrote:
There have been countless times where a local government wanted to
install the fiber *themselves*, only to have the ILEC file a lawsuit
and/or petition (bribe) the State Legislature to prevent installation.
Out of curiousity, ILEC or RBOC? Have some pointers?
Jack
Once upon a time, Daniel Senie said:
> Before you get too hung up on the emergency phone thing, take a hard
> look at the present day. The telcos pushed SLC gear out everywhere.
> Those have batteries, but at least in some areas, no maintenance was
> done, batteries died, and when the power
Leo Bicknell wrote:
In most locations every home has electrical service. What's the
cost per household?
$20/mo electric bill. That would so rock.
Most houses have a statem maintained road in front of them, what
is the cost per household?
Paid for by City/County or more commonly by the land
In a message written on Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 10:00:32AM -0500, Jack Bates wrote:
> Leo Bicknell wrote:
> >In most locations every home has electrical service. What's the
> >cost per household?
>
> $20/mo electric bill. That would so rock.
There is the cost to put the line in to your house, and t
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Leo Bicknell wrote:
In most areas of the country you can't get a permit to build a house
without electrical service (something solar and other off the grid people
are fighting). Since it is so much more cost effective to install with
new construction, why don't we have code
On 28-Aug-2009, at 08:14, Peter Beckman wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Leo Bicknell wrote:
In most areas of the country you can't get a permit to build a house
without electrical service (something solar and other off the grid
people
are fighting). Since it is so much more cost effective to i
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Joe Abley wrote:
On 28-Aug-2009, at 08:14, Peter Beckman wrote:
And where does that fiber go to? Home runs from a central point in the
development, so any provider can hook up to any house at the street?
Deregulation means those lines should be accessible to any company f
Peter Beckman wrote:
I like that idea, except for the problem that I don't want my neighbors to
have access to the colo, or at least my feed, but I want access to my feed
to I can reboot whatever device is connected there. There would have to
be individual locked cages of some standard size
On Aug 28, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Daniel Senie wrote:
If you want to make the emergency phone thing a part of the
discussion, then regulations need to exist AND be enforced, and
penalties assessed, for failure to provide such during power
outages. It's not happening today, so don't expect it i
Questions for the community: from a Application Service Provider
perspective - how / can one provide application access to a group of
Enterprises where the ASP provider provides ASP like applications to all
Enterprise customers who have multiple locations and who may or may not have
overlapping ad
Once upon a time, Peter Beckman said:
> And where does that fiber go to? Home runs from a central point in the
> development, so any provider can hook up to any house at the street?
> Deregulation means those lines should be accessible to any company for a
> fee. How do you give House A Veri
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
> I've yet to hear an ILEC suggest that they not
> have batteries in the NID to support the voice in power outages.
The battery in my FTTH NID is completely useless. It maintains the
voice side of the NID but drops the Internet side. Only, I cance
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The dropping of internet is done on purpose to preserve the battery for
the pots when ac power is lost. This is an actual setting in just about
all manufacturers of ftth equipment. You'll probably have a hard time
to get them to change the profile on the equipment tho but it is
possible.
Carlos
This might give you some ideas (also solves the overlapping customer address
problem):
http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/FlexExtraImplement/
Ivan
http://www.ioshints.info/about
http://blog.ioshints.info/
> -Original Message-
> From: Kenny Sallee [mailto:kenny.sal...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Frid
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Carlos Alcantar wrote:
> The dropping of internet is done on purpose to preserve the battery for
> the pots when ac power is lost. This is an actual setting in just about
> all manufacturers of ftth equipment. You'll probably have a hard time
> to get them to chan
I agree, while the majority of government and service providers have
the opinion that POTS is a lifeline service, and ethernet is not, I
disagree. I know the service provider I work for is starting to change
their views on this, but it will take time for the general populous of
mana
One thing that I think service providers take into account is that while
many people still have phones that do not have their own power source,
battery backups for home computers aren't that common as a general rule.
There is no need to have battery backup for internet services if the
computer does
On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Luke Marrott wrote:
One thing that I think service providers take into account is that
while
many people still have phones that do not have their own power source,
battery backups for home computers aren't that common as a general
rule.
There is no need to have
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Luke Marrott wrote:
>> Bill Herrin:
>> I realize why it's done. I merely point out that there are common
>> configurations in which the having the FTTH NID power the POTS
>> circuitry and drop the Internet circuitry is exactly the opposite of
>> correct. Where inste
William Herrin wrote:
You would suggest treating the Ethernet and POTS ports the same for
power backup purposes until the ethernet port drops its carrier for 60
seconds or so? Maybe do the same for the POTs ports wrt detecting
whether any phones are attached? Nah, that would make far too much
se
If all of the POTS attached phones on the "emergency" circuit are on-hook
and there are no incoming calls, then not much power should be required. If
a phone goes off-hook it should be much easier to detect. If the network
facing side is up it can power up the POTS circuit when an incoming call i
Walter Keen wrote:
I agree, while the majority of government and service providers have
the opinion that POTS is a lifeline service, and ethernet is not, I
disagree. I know the service provider I work for is starting to change
their views on this, but it will take time for the genera
And how many of them also have a "cable/DSL wireless router" thingie plugged
into the wall in between?
(Sure, you can unplug it -- if you know to do that, without being able to phone
anyone to be told to do so...)
- S
-Original Message-
From: Marshall Eubanks
Sent: Friday, August 28,
Maybe an NID with an integrated phone and a hand-crank-generator so you can
always crank it to make a call :)
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:59 PM, William Herrin
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
> > I've yet to hear an ILEC suggest that they not
> > have batteries in the NI
Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Maybe an NID with an integrated phone and a hand-crank-generator so you
can always crank it to make a call :)
Oh, man. If only I were old enough for that to be nostalgic. ;)
Jack
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Ivan Pepelnjak wrote:
> This might give you some ideas (also solves the overlapping customer
> address
> problem):
>
> http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/FlexExtraImplement/
>
> Ivan
>
> http://www.ioshints.info/about
> http://blog.ioshints.info/
>
That looks very inte
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Kenny Sallee wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Ivan Pepelnjak wrote:
>
>> This might give you some ideas (also solves the overlapping customer
>> address
>> problem):
>>
>> http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/FlexExtraImplement/
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> http://www.ioshin
Governments already license stock brokers, pilots, commercial drivers,
accountants, engineers, all sorts of people whose mistakes can be measured in
the loss of hundreds of lives and millions of dollars.
http://sip-trunking.tmcnet.com/topics/security/articles/63218-bill-give-president-emergency
BGP Update Report
Interval: 20-Aug-09 -to- 27-Aug-09 (7 days)
Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS131072
TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS
Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name
1 - AS919889505 4.2% 260.9 -- KAZTELECOM-AS Kazakhtelecom
Corporate Sales Administration
This report has been generated at Fri Aug 28 21:11:40 2009 AEST.
The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of AS2.0 router
and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table.
Check http://www.cidr-report.org for a current version of this report.
Recent Table History
Date
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Hiers, David wrote:
Governments already license stock brokers, pilots, commercial drivers,
accountants, engineers, all sorts of people whose mistakes can be
measured in the loss of hundreds of lives and millions of dollars.
"'The power company allowed their network securi
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Hiers, David wrote:
> Governments already license stock brokers, pilots, commercial drivers,
> accountants, engineers, all sorts of people whose mistakes can be measured
> in the loss of hundreds of lives and millions of dollars.
>
>
> http://sip-trunking.tmcnet.c
James:
I'm not following you here -- which party has the right of first refusal?
If I had to guess, what really happened here is that the rural LEC is able
to build out FTTH because they are counting on USF (high cost loop support
and interstate common line support) to help pay it, while the LEC
Jc:
Remember, some rural and high-cost areas can't support multiple wireline
providers. May not even a wireless and wireline provider (though satellite
is a given).
So yes, pricing in these near-monopoly areas might be higher than in an area
with real competition, but does that pricing mean the
That deadline is for video.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: David Barak [mailto:thegame...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:25 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: FCCs RFC for the Definition of Broadband
- Original Message
From: James Downs
Except this is exactly
I'm trying really hard to find my "paranoia hat", and just to relieve
some boredom I read the entire bill to try to figure out where this was
all coming from
"(2) may declare a cybersecurity emergency and order the limitation or
shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal
Since the features/function/success of the service is so intimately tied to
the control/maintenance of that last mile/alley/drop, how do the takers make
sure they get what they need? Or that it uses the technology they want?
It's an attractive idea from the surface, but one that erodes competitiv
... this whole issue reminded me of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRmxXp62O8g
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrQUWUfmR_I
On the more serious note: the vagueness of some terms and definitions is
what concerns me, for example. I am not sure if the problem could be fixed,
though, under a mec
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