Jorge Amodio wrote:
You, seemingly, do not have much knowledge on UUNET.
Of course I don't :-)
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>
>
> You, seemingly, do not have much knowledge on UUNET.
>
> Of course I don't :-)
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Jorge Amodio wrote:
This gets sort of merged with DTN (Delay/Disruption Tolerant Networking.)
I have been saying that DTN is a reinvention of UUNET.
Hmmm, nope not even close.
You, seemingly, do not have much knowledge on UUNET.
As such, it should be noted that, in UUNET, availability of
>
>
> > This gets sort of merged with DTN (Delay/Disruption Tolerant Networking.)
>
> I have been saying that DTN is a reinvention of UUNET.
>
Hmmm, nope not even close.
>
> As such, it should be noted that, in UUNET, availability of
> phone links between computers was scheduled.
>
You must be
Jorge Amodio wrote:
We are in the process of starting a new Working Group at IETF, Timer
Variant Routing or TVR.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/tvr/about/
Some of the uses cases are for space applications where you can predict or
schedule the availability and capacity of "links" (radio, opt
I think it's useful to clarify terminology - the starlink antenna unit
itself is the CPE. With my v1 starlink terminal you can plug literally
anything into the PoE injector that is a 1500 MTU 1000BaseT DHCP client and
it'll get an address and a default route out to the internet. All of the
smarts
FYI,
We are in the process of starting a new Working Group at IETF, Timer
Variant Routing or TVR.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/tvr/about/
Some of the uses cases are for space applications where you can predict or
schedule the availability and capacity of "links" (radio, optical)
This gets
On 1/23/23 3:14 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
The original and traditional high-cost way of how this is done for
MEO/LEO is exemplified by an o3b terminal, which has two active
motorized tracking antennas. The antenna presently in use for the
satellite that is overhead follows it until it's descendi
nday, January 22, 2023 4:43 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Starlink routing
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside your organization. Exercise
> caution when opening attachments or clicking links, especially from unknown
> senders.
>
> I read in the Economist
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Michael
Thomas
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 4:43 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Starlink routing
CAUTION: This email originated from outside your organization. Exercise caution
when opening attachments or clicking links, especially from
code that
> handles all the frequency coordination and hand offs with the ground.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG On Behalf Of
> Michael Thomas
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 1:43 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Starlink routing
>
> CAUTION: This
ustom developed networking as code that handles
all the frequency coordination and hand offs with the ground.
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf Of Michael
Thomas
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 1:43 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Starlink routing
CAUTION: This email originated from
My present understanding is that starlink satellites with lasers are not
designed to communicate inter-plane. Each launch of starlink satellites is
put into exactly the same orbital inclination (53.2 degrees or the more
rare near polar orbits now launched from Vandenberg).
In the weeks and months
(inline)
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:44 PM Michael Thomas wrote:
the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would conventional
>> routing protocols be up to such a challenge?
>
>
If conventional is taken to mean "stock" link-state stuff, then probably no
(speculating).
> Or would it h
On 2023-01-23 19:08, I wrote:
> I get that for 1310 nm light, the doppler shift would be just under
> 0.07 nm, or 12.2 GHz:
> [...]
> In the ITU C band, I get the doppler shift to be about 10.5 GHz (at
> channel 72, 197200 GHz or 1520.25 nm).
> [...]
> These shifts are noticably less than typical
Appreciate that. Definitely becoming clear to me that a lot of my knowledge
here was rusty. Lots of papers on this specifically (Doppler effects on
optical ISL) that I need to call in some favors to get access to.
Thanks!
On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:08 PM Thomas Bellman wrote:
> On 2023-01-23 17:
I think it's also likely that only modest, if any, WDM is required on those
links, because the goal in most cases will only be to go far enough to get
down to a ground station (excepting some low latency transatlantic use
cases I have read might be in the offing), and because the satellite RF
uplin
On 2023-01-23 17:27, Tom Beecher wrote:
> What I didn't think was adequately solved was what Starlink shows in
> marketing snippets, that is birds in completely different orbital
> inclinations (sometimes close to 90 degrees off) shooting messages to each
> other. Last I had read the dopplar effec
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 8:54 PM Tom Beecher wrote:
> Yes re: Iridium. Contrary to what the Chief Huckster may say, inter-sat comms
> are not some revolutionary thing that he invented.
1990s Iridium was a modified version of GSM/ATM with the packetization
and routing that implies. I don't know th
>
> Elon for whatever reason is insane enough to dump a lot of cash in
> industries which everyone said was a dead end and then has been lucky
> enough to prove the old guard wrong.
>
>
- Nobody had 'given up' on reusable launch vehicles. SpaceX (to their
credit) just made it a core requirement in
Raymond / Jorge -
Thanks for that info. Quoting from the paper, that does match my current
understanding, being :
II. FEATURES OF INTER-SATELLITE COMMUNICATION LINKS AND DESIGN
> CONSIDERATIONS This work is aimed to design efficient ISCs links for a
> group of small satellites flying in cluster f
Like I said, they're calling it revolutionary. Didn't say it was.
However the idea that you can build spaceships which are fully reusable was
certainly around the industry, but the consensus was largely "we tried, it
costs too much, so we're sticking with one use rockets". Elon for
whatever
Musk didn't do anything revolutionary, besides launching a shload of LEO
satellites.
NASA and DoD have been working for long time on optical space
communications, last year LCRD was launched and preliminary tests using it
as a relay showed 622Mpbs, this year NASA will include on one of the
cargo m
Matthew Petach wrote:
Unlike most terrestrial links, the distances between satellites are
not fixed, and thus the latency between nodes is variable, making the
concept of "Shortest Path First" calculation a much more dynamic and
challenging one to keep current, as the latency along a path may be
I think the thing they're calling revolutionary is the idea of those links
being directional lasers.
It makes some sense... if you can basically emit the same signal you'd
shoot down a strand of single mode but aim it through the mostly vacuum of
space in the exact direction of your neighbor then
Solved years ago …
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/ielaam/92/8502886/8412572-aam.pdf
-Jorge
> On Jan 23, 2023, at 1:30 AM, Raymond Burkholder wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 1/22/23 21:54, Tom Beecher wrote:
>> Yes re: Iridium. Contrary to what the Chief Huckster may say, inter-sat
>> comms are not some r
On 1/22/23 21:54, Tom Beecher wrote:
Yes re: Iridium. Contrary to what the Chief Huckster may say, inter-sat
comms are not some revolutionary thing that he invented.
It’s also not likely to function anything like they show in marketing
promos, with data magically zipping around the constell
On 23/01/2023 0:42, Michael Thomas wrote:
I read in the Economist that the gen of starlink satellites will have
the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would
conventional routing protocols be up to such a challenge? Or would it
have to be custom made for that problem? And since a
Yes re: Iridium. Contrary to what the Chief Huckster may say, inter-sat
comms are not some revolutionary thing that he invented.
It’s also not likely to function anything like they show in marketing
promos, with data magically zipping around the constellation between nodes
in different inclination
I suspect, although I have no references, that satellite to ground
connectivity is probably more “circuit-based” than per-packet or frame.
Iridium has done inter satellite communication for decades. I wonder if it
wouldn’t be something very similar. Although it would be totally on-brand
for them t
On 1/22/23 16:05, Matthew Petach wrote:
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 2:45 PM Michael Thomas wrote:
I read in the Economist that the gen of starlink satellites will have
the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would
conventional
routing protocols be up to such a challe
On 1/22/23 3:05 PM, Matthew Petach wrote:
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 2:45 PM Michael Thomas wrote:
I read in the Economist that the gen of starlink satellites will have
the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would
conventional
routing protocols be up to such a cha
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 2:45 PM Michael Thomas wrote:
> I read in the Economist that the gen of starlink satellites will have
> the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would conventional
> routing protocols be up to such a challenge? Or would it have to be
> custom made for that pro
I read in the Economist that the gen of starlink satellites will have
the ability to route messages between each satellite. Would conventional
routing protocols be up to such a challenge? Or would it have to be
custom made for that problem? And since a lot of companies and countries
are getting
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