Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Brandon Butterworth" > > I'll simply ask, _which_ of those channels will have that extra data > > stream > > that the head-end inserted? That the cable compmany doesn't know, or > > care, > > about, and *how* does it survive the de-multiplexing and re-coding

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> NAME five consumer-grade commercial off the shelf products http://lmgtfy.com/?q=STB+PVR+ethernet > Proof: go to Titantv.com, select the 'digital cable' channel line-up for > 'Comcast areas 1, 4 & 5' in zipcode 60640 (chicago north side, lakefront). > and check the comcast channels in the range

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> No, we're pretty sure you're wrong there, probably because you're > purposely ignoring our *specific* characterization of the thing which > was actually done. I disagreed with two statements:- > > On the engineering side, _impossible_. Modern satellite > > feeds of NTSC (analog) TV signals u

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 02:08:04 +0100 (BST) > From: Brandon Butterworth > Subject: Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than > Any > Other Company > > > You demonstrate you have no understanding of what the word 'feasable'

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Brandon Butterworth" > > You demonstrate you have no understanding of what the word > > 'feasable' means. > > OK, but we actually did this as a commercial service on analogue TV and > we deliver non picture data on digital TV (satellite and terrestrial) > to

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Thu, 26 May 2011 02:08:04 BST, Brandon Butterworth said: > > One _cannot_ do this with 'modern' digital TV trasmission, because the > > _end-to-end_ technolgy does not support it. > > Apologies for disagreeing, but this is exactly what the modern > technology does. > Digital TV (ATSC in your

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> You demonstrate you have no understanding of what the word 'feasable' > means. OK, but we actually did this as a commercial service on analogue TV and we deliver non picture data on digital TV (satellite and terrestrial) today, it's just not USENET data. > One _cannot_ do this with 'modern' dig

Re: Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

While not material to the technical discussion, I would point out that it is doubtful any large corp. would want to distro full USENET these days given the legal implications - see http://isoc-ny.org/?p=252 - mind you Cuomo is otherwise engaged these days. j > > Yes, you *CAN* engineer a "com

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 05/24/2011 11:12 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Lou Katz wrote: An "elegant" idea, done in by changing technology. *sigh* As USENIX director I sponsored and sheparded this project, called "Stargate". We at least got bits into the blanking in

Re Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> From bran...@rd.bbc.co.uk Wed May 25 04:21:13 2011 > Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 10:19:09 +0100 (BST) > From: Brandon Butterworth > To: morrowc.li...@gmail.com, nanog@nanog.org, bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Th

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Brandon Butterworth" > > On the financial side, it is trivial. > > The opposite, the bits were paid for but unused back then so > financially it was worth using them. In digital tv every bit has a use > and so a cost, hence they are used for more TV channels

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Robert Bonomi" > As I understand it, a current USENET 'full feed', including binaries, take > two dedicated 100mbit FDX fast ethernet links, and they are saturated _most_ > of the day. At that rate, A full day of TV vertical interval transmission > wuould han

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> > So... would this have been feasible today? given the bandwidth required > > to send a full feed these days, i suspect likely not, eh? (even if you > > were able to do it on all 500+ channels in parallel) > > On the financial side, it is trivial. The opposite, the bits were paid for but unus

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Tue May 24 22:19:18 > 2011 > Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 23:14:56 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jay Ashworth > To: NANOG > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any > Other Company

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Tue May 24 22:12:57 > 2011 > Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 23:12:41 -0400 > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any > Other Company > From: Christopher Morrow > To: nanog@na

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

See also: UK efforts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestel j On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Max wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Steven Bellovin > wrote: > > It was TBS, in the 1980s: > http://web.archive.org/web/19981203103811/www.stargate.co

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote: > It was TBS, in the 1980s: > http://web.archive.org/web/19981203103811/www.stargate.com/history.html > > It used TBS because that was one of the first "superstations", distributed > to cable systems nationwide via satellite. oops - meant

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Christopher Morrow" > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Lou Katz wrote: > >> > An "elegant" idea, done in by changing technology. *sigh* > > > > As USENIX director I sponsored and sheparded this project, called > > "Stargate". > > We at least got bits into t

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:48 PM, Lou Katz wrote: >> > >> > An "elegant" idea, done in by changing technology.   *sigh* >> > > > As USENIX director I sponsored and sheparded this project, called "Stargate". > We at least got bits into the blanking interval at WTBS in Altanta. So... would this hav

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 08:12:31PM -0400, Max wrote: > Was PBS one of the companies you are referring to? A colleague of > mine worked as a developer on a project at PBS in the 90s that used > the blanking interval for Internet transmissio - very cool stuff. > > > The one that was _much_ more i

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

.org Wed May 18 16:12:17 >>> 2011 >>> Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:53:10 -0600 >>> From: Brielle Bruns >>> To: nanog@nanog.org >>> Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than >>> Any >>> Other Company

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

g Wed May 18 16:12:17 >> 2011 >> Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:53:10 -0600 >> From: Brielle Bruns >> To: nanog@nanog.org >> Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than >> Any >> Other Company >> >> On

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Roy wrote: > http://e.businessinsider.com/public/184962 You know... I say the way the headline characterizes the subject is misleading. It would be more accurate to say something like "North American Internet users utilize more of their available network cap

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Wed May 18 16:12:17 > 2011 > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:53:10 -0600 > From: Brielle Bruns > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any > Other Comp

RE: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> From: Rick Astley [mailto:jna...@gmail.com] > I think most the points made here are valid about why it isn't an easy > problem to solve with multicast. > Lets say for instance they had a multicast stream that sent the most > popular > content (which to Randy's point may not cover much) and 48 ho

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

I think most the points made here are valid about why it isn't an easy problem to solve with multicast. Lets say for instance they had a multicast stream that sent the most popular content (which to Randy's point may not cover much) and 48 hours of that stream was cached locally on the CPE. What is

RE: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

ix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company I think this shows the need for an Internet-wide multicast implementation. Although I can recall working on a product that delivered satellite multicast streams (with each multicast group corresponding to individual TV st

NOT Buckaroo (WAS: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company)

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 07:45:44AM +1000, Jeffrey S. Young wrote: > No matter where you go, there you are. > [--anon?] Oliver's Law of Location Kinda usurped by Buckaroo Banzai in the movie by the same name. It always annoys me when attributed to that character. Go back to your regular programm

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 18/05/11 5:10 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: Sure, but I'm guessing that something like that 80% of the content that 80% of people watch *is* available on some satellite/cable channel. Yes, but most isn't available "over the air" with rabbit ears and a DVR. One of

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> > >> Sure, but I'm guessing that something like that 80% of the content that >> 80% of people watch *is* available on some satellite/cable channel. >> > > Yes, but most isn't available "over the air" with rabbit ears and a DVR. > One of the big appeals of Netflix is the $8/month for all you can

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 18/05/11 4:42 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 7:35 PM, JC Dill > wrote: On 18/05/11 1:13 PM, Cameron Byrne wrote: It's not. These people need a pair of rabbit ears and a DVR. Roughly 90% of the content I'm interested in w

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 7:35 PM, JC Dill wrote: > On 18/05/11 1:13 PM, Cameron Byrne wrote: > >> >> It's not. These people need a pair of rabbit ears and a DVR. >> > > Roughly 90% of the content I'm interested in watching is not available over > the air. E.g. Comedy Central, CNN, Discovery, Sh

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 18/05/11 1:13 PM, Cameron Byrne wrote: It's not. These people need a pair of rabbit ears and a DVR. Roughly 90% of the content I'm interested in watching is not available over the air. E.g. Comedy Central, CNN, Discovery, Showtime/HBO, etc. jc

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Jeffrey S. Young" > > Somebody should invent a a way to stream groups of shows simultaneously > > and just arrange for people to watch the desired stream at a particular > > time. Heck, maybe even do it wireless. > > > > problem solved, right? > > Those who

RE: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

Jon Lewis [mailto:jle...@lewis.org] Sent: May-18-11 6:01 PM To: Brielle Bruns Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company On Wed, 18 May 2011, Brielle Bruns wrote: > If someone hadn't mentioned already, there used to be

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, 18 May 2011, Brielle Bruns wrote: If someone hadn't mentioned already, there used to be a usenet provider that delivered a full feed via Satellite. Anything is feasible, just have to find people who actually want/need it and a provider that isn't blind to long term benefits. Skycach

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

re a lot of CO's and cable head-ends though for > this solution to scale. > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Holstein [mailto:michael.holst...@csuohio.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:46 PM > To: Roy > Cc: nanog > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eati

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: > On 5/18/11 2:33 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: >> >> If we're really talking efficiency, the "popular" stuff should probably >> stream out over the bird of your choice (directv, etc) because it's hard >> to >> beat millions of dishes and dvr's and no

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote: > Joe Abley wrote: >> >> Or perhaps even some kind of new technology that is independent of the >> Internet! Imagine such futuristic ideas as solar-powered spacecraft in orbit >> around the planet bouncing content back across massive areas so

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Joel Jaeggli" > On May 18, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Holmes,David A wrote: > > I think this shows the need for an Internet-wide multicast > > implementation. > > there's a pretty longtailed distribution on what people might chose to > stream. static content is ameni

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 5/18/11 2:33 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: If we're really talking efficiency, the "popular" stuff should probably stream out over the bird of your choice (directv, etc) because it's hard to beat millions of dishes and dvr's and no cable plant. Then what won't fit on the bird goes unicast IP from th

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

>> for some of us, the thing that is wonderful about netflix is the long >> tail.  my tastes are a sigma or three out. > in all seriousness, if the content was available and you could request > it be streamed to you 'sometime tomorrow' or 'sometime before Friday', > you and the other people like yo

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

h for this solution to scale. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Michael Holstein [mailto:michael.holst...@csuohio.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:46 PM > > To: Roy > > Cc: nanog > > Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > > On May 18, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Holmes,David A wrote: > >> I think this shows the need for an Internet-wide multicast implementation. > > there's a pretty longtailed distribution on what people might chose to > stream. static content is amenia

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> why not permit your users to subscribe to shows/instances, stream them >> on-demand for viewing later... and leave truly live content >> (news/sports/etc) as is, with only the ability to pause/rewind? >> >> how is this different from broadcast

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

Joe Abley wrote: Or perhaps even some kind of new technology that is independent of the Internet! Imagine such futuristic ideas as solar-powered spacecraft in orbit around the planet bouncing content back across massive areas so that everybody can pick them up at once. Crazy stuff. You mean

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Christopher Morrow" > why not permit your users to subscribe to shows/instances, stream them > on-demand for viewing later... and leave truly live content > (news/sports/etc) as is, with only the ability to pause/rewind? > > how is this different from broadc

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

I admit there are a lot of CO's and cable head-ends though for > this solution to scale. > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Holstein [mailto:michael.holst...@csuohio.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:46 PM > To: Roy > Cc: nanog > Subject: Re: Netflix Is

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 2011-05-18, at 16:09, Dorn Hetzel wrote: > they can capture popular programs at the time of multicast for later > viewing. Whether this is better than capturing the same programs over a > broadcast medium for later playback, I don't know... ... or a peer to peer medium, which is (as I unders

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> why not permit your users to subscribe to shows/instances, stream them > on-demand for viewing later... and leave truly live content > (news/sports/etc) as is, with only the ability to pause/rewind? > > how is this different from broadcast tv today though? for some of us, the thing that is wond

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Landon Stewart wrote: >> There was a lengthy discussion about that on NANOG a week or so ago.  I >> don't claim to understand all facets of multicast but it could be a sort of >> way to operate "tv stati

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> > > I don't see how multicast necasarily solves the netflix on-demand video > problem. you have millions of users streaming different content at different > times. multicast is great for the world cup but how does it solve the video > on demand problem? > > I suppose in theory if you have tivo-li

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 2011-05-18, at 16:01, Holmes,David A wrote: > I think this shows the need for an Internet-wide multicast implementation. Or perhaps even some kind of new technology that is independent of the Internet! Imagine such futuristic ideas as solar-powered spacecraft in orbit around the planet boun

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 05/18/2011 04:01 PM, Holmes,David A wrote: I think this shows the need for an Internet-wide multicast implementation. Although I can recall working on a product that delivered satellite multicast streams (with each multicast group corresponding to individual TV stations) to telco CO's. This

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Landon Stewart wrote: > There was a lengthy discussion about that on NANOG a week or so ago.  I > don't claim to understand all facets of multicast but it could be a sort of > way to operate "tv station" type scheduled programming for streaming media. > There's no

RE: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- From: Michael Holstein [mailto:michael.holst...@csuohio.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:46 PM To: Roy Cc: nanog Subject: Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company > http://e.businessinsider.com/public/184962 > Somebody should inv

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Michael Holstein < michael.holst...@csuohio.edu> wrote: > > > http://e.businessinsider.com/public/184962 > > > > Somebody should invent a a way to stream groups of shows simultaneously > and just arrange for people to watch the desired stream at a particular > tim

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> http://e.businessinsider.com/public/184962 > Somebody should invent a a way to stream groups of shows simultaneously and just arrange for people to watch the desired stream at a particular time. Heck, maybe even do it wireless. problem solved, right? Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

- Original Message - > From: "Randy Bush" > > Since a good number of us get paid for delivering bits, isn't this a > > good thing? > > at layer eight, having a single very large customer can be a source of > unhappy surprises. I have first hand experience, having been laid off from my l

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On 5/18/11 2:36 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > at layer eight, having a single very large customer can be a source of > unhappy surprises. Heh- no matter what layers one through seven are...

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

> Since a good number of us get paid for delivering bits, isn't this a > good thing? at layer eight, having a single very large customer can be a source of unhappy surprises. randy

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > > another view might be that netflix's customers are eating the bandwidth > > randy > One of the UKs large residential ISPs publishes what their customers use bandwidth for at http://www.talktalkmembers.com/content/view/154/159/ "Streaming prot

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

"Eating Up" sounds so overweight and unhealthy. Since a good number of us get paid for delivering bits, isn't this a good thing? Always glad to see bits and dollars flowing into the Internet, personally. However must express severe dissatisfaction with the topic of the thread a while ago referenc

Re: Netflix Is Eating Up More Of North America's Bandwidth Than Any Other Company

another view might be that netflix's customers are eating the bandwidth randy