Hi, Dave,
On 06/02/2011 04:09 p.m., Dave CROCKER wrote:
> Sorry, but I think the technical implications of a goal to survive
> 'hostile battlefield conditions' versus 'nuclear attack' are (small pun)
> massively different. Hence I think the actual language used matters.
>
> And the fact that the
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 4:11 AM, wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:49:36 EST, Josh Smith said:
>
>> even if it was I suspect any service available via satellite might
>> suffer from similar problems if the methods used to disrupt
>> connectivity in Egypt were employed here.
>
> The real question isn
On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:49:36 EST, Josh Smith said:
> even if it was I suspect any service available via satellite might
> suffer from similar problems if the methods used to disrupt
> connectivity in Egypt were employed here.
The real question isn't "If they shut you down, can you restart?".
The
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Ryan Wilkins wrote:
>
> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Josh Smith wrote:
>
>> I agree that setting up "local" connectivity between the folks in my
>> neighborhood wouldn't be too much of a challenge. Getting anything
>> much beyond that up and running would be a stret
- Original Message -
> From: "Nick Hilliard"
> Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
> On 07/02/2011 21:53, Josh Smith wrote:
> > I agree that setting up "local" connectivity between the folks in my
> > neighborhood wou
On 07/02/2011 21:53, Josh Smith wrote:
I agree that setting up "local" connectivity between the folks in my
neighborhood wouldn't be too much of a challenge. Getting anything
much beyond that up and running would be a stretch.
I can't help noticing some irony in seeing one nanog thread about w
On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Josh Smith wrote:
> I agree that setting up "local" connectivity between the folks in my
> neighborhood wouldn't be too much of a challenge. Getting anything
> much beyond that up and running would be a stretch.
Yeah, but the more people communicating the better. I
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Ryan Wilkins wrote:
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>
>> Original Message -
>>> What do you do when you get home to put it back on the air -- let's
>>> say email as a base service, since it is -- do you have the gear laying
>>> around
On Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:29:44 pm Fred Baker wrote:
> To survive an EMP, electronics needs some fancy circuitry. I've never worked
> with a bit of equipment that had it. It would therefore have to have been
> through path redundancy.
Surviving EMP is similar to surviving several (dozen)
On 02-05-11 8:29 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
On Feb 5, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key
point for the creation of the internet to
On Feb 6, 2011, at 8:57 AM, isabel dias wrote:
> do you have a satellite dish? what are your dish pointing coordinates..we
> just need to find out what is going on the air interface ...
I don't personally have one but of of the companies that I contract to is in
the satellite networks bu
the authoritative and secondary servers for the "ميسر." zone were
unreachable, a circumstance which existed a year ago for the .ht zone.
the authoritative and secondary servers for the ".eg" zone were
mutually unreachable.
wireline dialtone was prevalent during the prefix withdrawal period.
On 2/6/2011 10:47 AM, Barry Shein wrote:
If you focus it down very sharply like this:
DARPA specified (or, perhaps, the project was sold to DARPA with
a promise...) that the network being designed in the late 1960s
should be resistant to a nuclear attack.
That's probably an
On February 5, 2011 at 18:11 d...@dcrocker.net (Dave CROCKER) wrote:
>
>
> On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
> > On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
> >> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for
> >> the creation of the internet t
- Original Message -
> From: "isabel dias"
> do you have a satellite dish? what are your dish pointing
> coordinates..we
> just need to find out what is going on the air interface ...
Well, either iDirect or SCPC...
Cheers,
-- jra
Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> Original Message -
>> What do you do when you get home to put it back on the air -- let's
>> say email as a base service, since it is -- do you have the gear laying
>around,
>&g
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point
> for the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that
> woul
Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point
> for the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that
> would survive in the case
On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 08:29:44PM -0800, Fred Baker wrote:
>
> On Feb 5, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
> >> On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
> >>> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the k
>
> > Back in the '70s, I always heard "survive hostile battlefield
> conditions" and never heard anyone talk about comms survival of a
> nuclear event, but I wasn't in any interesting conversations, such as
> in front of funding agencies...
>
> To survive an EMP, electronics needs some fancy cir
On Feb 5, 2011, at 7:00 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> - Original Message -
>> From: "Fred Baker"
>
>> You mean, like drop a couple of trade towers and take out three class
>> five switches, causing communication outages throughout New England
>> and New Jersey, and affecting places as far a
On Feb 5, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>
>
> On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
>> On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
>>> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for
>>> the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure t
- Original Message -
> From: "Fred Baker"
> You mean, like drop a couple of trade towers and take out three class
> five switches, causing communication outages throughout New England
> and New Jersey, and affecting places as far away as Chicago?
3 class-5s?
I thought it was a 5E and a
On 2/5/2011 6:43 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen wrote:
Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for
the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that would
survive in the case of all out war and massive destruc
te an operation.
> -Original Message-
> From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.li...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:39 PM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
>
> On 03/02/11 10:38 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>>
&g
On 2/4/2011 11:13 AM, Charles N Wyble wrote:
How much phone service would still work, if the feds hit all the major
IX points and terminate
connectivity? I seem to recall much discussion about the all IP back
bone of the various large
carriers (Qwest/ATT). I guess calls in the same CO and may
On 2/3/2011 7:43 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your ranking
manager to "shut down the Internet".
Let's look at this from a different perspective. What level of
impairment would the feds face if they ordered wide spread
net shut downs. D
> Dang nabbit. Stupid advancing technology. (During an internet outtage
I
> wonder
> if new orders for POTS phone service would be quashed in the interest
> of
> 'public safety'... :)
>
> /kc
> --
UUCP works just fine over TCP/IP and works with Exim and Postfix (I have
used both with UUCP over T
On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 09:34:09PM -0500, Jay Ashworth said:
>Where *is* your Trailblazer? Is it hooked up? Have you tested it
>lately?
>
>Do you have Taylor UUCP installed? Configured? Have peers?
No, but i have old drives full of uucp maps around. I'd start with those. And
I'd use
On 2/4/2011 8:25 PM, Ken Chase wrote:
However, shutting the internet down (you know, when they press the
magic button that makes my telebit trailblazer no longer able to do
UUCP) would instantly create a market for services more robust/localized/
culturally-customized than those that suddenly go
- Original Message -
> From: "Ken Chase"
> However, shutting the internet down (you know, when they press the
> magic button that makes my telebit trailblazer no longer able to do
> UUCP) would instantly create a market for services more robust/localized/
> culturally-customized than thos
- Original Message -
> From: bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com
> if the law is unjust, do you comply because it is the law, or do you
> protest, at the risk of punishment/death? hardly a wire-protocol question -
> no?
Correct: a decision each person must make for themselves...
which is why
On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 02:27:32PM -0800, Matthew Petach said:
>The Internet itself will continue to function, no matter what silliness the
>US political system attempts to engage in; from the perspective of those
>in the US, it may appear that "the Internet" is unable to survive such an
>a
On 05/02/2011, at 8:57 AM, Matthew Petach wrote:
As has been noted previously, it's all about your frame of
reference. If the US is removed from the Internet, it does not
mean the Internet stops working; from the perspective of the
rest of the world, the Internet is still there.
I suspect you'l
> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for
> the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that would
> survive in the case of all out war and massive destruction.
no. fable
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 14:27 -0800, Matthew Petach wrote:
> As has been noted previously, it's all about your frame of
> reference. If the US is removed from the Internet, it does not
> mean the Internet stops working; from the perspective of the
> rest of the world, the Internet is still there.
M
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Hayden Katzenellenbogen
wrote:
> Not sure if it has been said already but wasn't one of the key point for
> the creation of the internet to create and infrastructure that would
> survive in the case of all out war and massive destruction. (strategic
> nuclear strike
by destroying/pressuring a few choke
> points?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.li...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:39 PM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
>
> On 03/02/11
any party could take out
a massive communication system by destroying/pressuring a few choke
points?
-Original Message-
From: JC Dill [mailto:jcdill.li...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:39 PM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Weekend Gedankenexperiment - The Kill Switch
On 03
> The Internet is not immune to the law, as you should well know. In fact,
> the Internet seems to be a legal "proving ground" these days, so word to
> the wise.
And, the US National Communication Service (http://www.ncs.gov/index.html)
"technically" has the ability to order all US telecommunica
> An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your ranking
> manager to "shut down the Internet".
a) you give them the crystals and warn that in isolation they can
be unstable so drive slow
or
b) you give them the internet to take away
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRmx
>
> 3. Website: as above, keep a duplicate copy of your basic HTML pages
> on
> some DoK that you can take with you. Have the user+pswd to your
> registrar so you can repoint your DNS to some new site you now
> setup up
> with the new updated info about your downtime.
>
> -Hank
Hav
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ryan Wilkins wrote:
Original Message -
What do you do when you get home to put it back on the air -- let's
say email as a base service, since it is -- do you have the gear laying around,
and how long would it take?
Focus on this part, BTW, folks; let's ignore the
On 03/02/11 10:38 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
And as an aside, governments will always believe that that they can control
the flow of information, when push comes to shove.
This has always been a hazard, and will always continue to be so.
As technologists, we need to be cognizant of that fact.
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On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Martin Millnert
wrote:
>
> Essentially, I'm not seeing the upside in assuming any state will
> always be good, forever and always. And it boils down to what's been
> discussed earlier: centralizing control of the Int
Paul,
a key piece in the article is on the second page:
"In fact, a lot of what the bill provides for are a very good ideas.
The bill sets out the concept that cyberspace is a strategic asset for
the United States and needs to be protected like any other strategic
asset. This is good.
The bill al
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On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:07 PM, George Bonser wrote:
>
> The federal government clearly has the authority to manage
> communications across the border of the country and between states but
> it would be questionable if the federal government has the
> No. The correct answer is that in the U.S., if the Agent in question
> has a
> valid subpoena or N.S.L., you must comply. If he doesn't, then you do
> not
> have to comply.
>
> I cannot answer for any other jurisdiction.
>
> Also, make sure you have staff attorneys well-versed in Internet law
-
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On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Mark Newton
wrote:
>
> On 04/02/2011, at 3:43 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mark Newton
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 04/02/2011, at 2:13 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>>>
An armed FBI special
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On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Matthew Moyle-Croft
wrote:
>
> On 04/02/2011, at 3:43 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>
> Also, make sure you have staff attorneys well-versed in Internet law --
> you'll need them either way.
>
>
> The Internet has it's own
On 04/02/2011, at 3:43 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mark Newton
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 04/02/2011, at 2:13 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>>
>>> An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your
>>> ranking manager to "shut down the Internet".
>>
>> Turn
On 04/02/2011, at 3:43 PM, Paul Ferguson wrote:
Also, make sure you have staff attorneys well-versed in Internet law --
you'll need them either way.
The Internet has it's own law now?
MMC
--
Matthew Moyle-Croft
Peering Manager and Team Lead - Commercial and DSLAMs
Internode /Agile
Level 5, 1
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On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Mark Newton
wrote:
>
> On 04/02/2011, at 2:13 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>
>> An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your
>> ranking manager to "shut down the Internet".
>
> Turn off the room light
On 04/02/2011, at 2:13 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your ranking
> manager to "shut down the Internet".
Turn off the room lights, salute, and shout, "Mission Accomplished."
The FBI dude with the gun won't know the difference.
- mark
On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> Original Message -
>> What do you do when you get home to put it back on the air -- let's
>> say email as a base service, since it is -- do you have the gear laying
>> around,
>> and how long would it take?
>
> Focus on this part, BTW,
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 10:43:09PM -0500, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> An armed FBI special agent shows up at your facility and tells your ranking
> manager to "shut down the Internet".
legal paperwork or pound sand. [very small hurdle, pathetic how many
LEOs seek to avoid it] The rest of it waits for
Original Message -
> What do you do when you get home to put it back on the air -- let's
> say email as a base service, since it is -- do you have the gear laying
> around,
> and how long would it take?
Focus on this part, BTW, folks; let's ignore the politics behind the
shutdown. :-)
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