Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 4/3/10 1:52 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? Since I thought this was worthwhile summarising, I've dumped it on the mail topics page in the Wiki: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/MailTopics

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

I was unable to register an acconut & edit the page. I would recommend including the O'reilly BGP book by Iljitsch van Beijnum. Under online stuff: The TCP/IP guide, which is surprisingly thorough: http://www.tcpipguide.com/ On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 11:11:07AM +0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On Mon

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010, Joly MacFie wrote: > I also grabbed the list http://isoc-ny.org/wiki/Networking > > Thanks to all who contributed. Please feel free to add a link to the above url in the nanog wiki. > > j > > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 20

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

I also grabbed the list http://isoc-ny.org/wiki/Networking Thanks to all who contributed. j On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > > > So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? > > Since I thought this was worth

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 08:09:29AM -0400, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > This morning I went digging for a book to recommend that someone in > our NOC read in order to understand at a high level how Internet > infrastructure works How to do comes automatically, *why* to do is the difference between a

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

Marty Anstey writes: > Max Gribov wrote: >> On 04/06/2010 01:17 PM, Marty Anstey wrote: >>> Nick Hilliard wrote: >>> "PHP stinks on the command line and text processing" >>> >>> This is a bit of a broad sweeping statement! Can you elaborate on what >>> your definition of how PHP "stinks"

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 04/06/2010 11:05 AM, Marty Anstey wrote: that said, php is awesome otherwise, been using it for last 2 years strictly in 'enterprise' deployment.. id just say perl is faster and more efficient for batch scripts. I can't speak specifically to the performance differences for comparible operati

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

Max Gribov wrote: > On 04/06/2010 01:17 PM, Marty Anstey wrote: >> Nick Hilliard wrote: >> >>> "PHP stinks on the command line and text processing" >>> >>> >> This is a bit of a broad sweeping statement! Can you elaborate on what >> your definition of how PHP "stinks" in this context? >>

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

Nick Hilliard wrote: > "PHP stinks on the command line and text processing" > This is a bit of a broad sweeping statement! Can you elaborate on what your definition of how PHP "stinks" in this context? We have dozens of CLI scripts all written in PHP, some of which have been running for years

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? Since I thought this was worthwhile summarising, I've dumped it on the mail topics page in the Wiki: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/MailTopics I specifically left out the programming

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Apr 2, 2010, at 8:10 AM, Jens Link wrote: > "Robert E. Seastrom" writes: > >> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? > > > > I think it's quite good and covers many "modern" topics. On

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Friday 02 April 2010 04:08:03 pm Michael Dillon wrote: > If someone wanted to play the game and trump me, then they would > quote the title of another book, or at least a substantial website > tutorial, that uses another programming language. I wish I could reply to this yesterday Then, I

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: >  On 4/2/10 2:09 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: >> >> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? > > Practice of System and Network Administration by Limoncelli, Hogan, and > Challup.  I may be biased, being married to Hogan. Chalu

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Apr 2, 2010, at 1:53 44PM, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said: >> All true, but I'd still say there's a special rung in hell for bad perl. > > Ehh, bad perl is still more readable than good APL. At least I can > reformat the perl! :-) > -- Oh, I don't know about th

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

>> In short: less zealotry, more pragmatism and a realisation that each >> language has its own strengths and weaknesses.  Bad code is bad code in >> any >> language. > > All true, but I'd still say there's a special rung in hell for bad perl. And it is exacerbated by the huge volume of bad PERL b

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

While not the stevens book, "the illustrated network" isbn 978-0-12-374541-5 was a pretty good attempt to do a modern version of the same. any book that attempts to cover all layers of the stack is going to have it's limits, but it has saved my bacon a couple of times now... The author is normall

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

Aside from the ones already mentioned, troubleshooting books are a great asset, also. Here are some of my favorites: http://www.amazon.com/Network-Analysis-Troubleshooting-Scott-Haugdahl/dp/0201433192/ http://www.amazon.com/Troubleshooting-Campus-Networks-Practical-Protocols/dp/0471210137/ http:

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

It's the same level reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater... Michael Thomas wrote: On 04/02/2010 10:43 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: In short: less zealotry, more pragmatism and a realisation that each language has its own strengths and weaknesses. Bad code is bad code

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said: >> All true, but I'd still say there's a special rung in hell for bad perl. > > Ehh, bad perl is still more readable than good APL.  At least I can > reformat the perl! :-) In my experience bad perl usua

RE: Books for the NOC guys...

> To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Books for the NOC guys... > > > This morning I went digging for a book to recommend that someone in > our NOC read in order to understand at a high level how Internet > infrastructure works (bgp, igps, etc) and discovered that the old > sta

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

Once upon a time, Michael Thomas said: > All true, but I'd still say there's a special rung in hell for bad perl. Ehh, bad perl is still more readable than good APL. At least I can reformat the perl! :-) -- Chris Adams Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 04/02/2010 10:43 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: In short: less zealotry, more pragmatism and a realisation that each language has its own strengths and weaknesses. Bad code is bad code in any language. All true, but I'd still say there's a special rung in hell for bad perl. Mike

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 02/04/2010 14:39, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:48:48 BST, Michael Dillon said: >>> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? >> >> In an attempt to wean them off of unmanageable PERL scripts > > There is not, and there never will be, a useful programm

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Friday 02 April 2010 11:36:53 am Eliot Lear wrote: > Practice of System and Network Administration by Limoncelli, Hogan, and > Challup. I may be biased, being married to Hogan. +1 on PSNA. I like it as much for its non-technical content as for its technical content (a similar book, by Limnc

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 6:02 AM, Express Web Systems wrote: >> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? > > While not specifically a NOC book, we find that it lays a great foundation > to build from (if, perhaps, a bit basic in certain areas): > > Network Warrior by Gary A. Donahu

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

The Limoncelli etc book is brilliant. There's phil smith and barry greene's old "Cisco ISP Essentials" too. Very good if somewhat outdated And then there's this if you just want security - http://www.amazon.com/Router-Security-Strategies-Securing-Network/dp/1587053365/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 4/2/10 2:09 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? Practice of System and Network Administration by Limoncelli, Hogan, and Challup. I may be biased, being married to Hogan. Eliot

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

"Robert E. Seastrom" writes: > So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? I think it's quite good and covers many "modern" topics. One drawback: It mentions ethereal and not wireshark. At the t

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Apr 2, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: This morning I went digging for a book to recommend that someone in our NOC read in order to understand at a high level how Internet infrastructure works (bgp, igps, etc) and discovered that the old standbys (Huitema, Halabi, Perlman) have a

RE: Books for the NOC guys...

I just show them this: http://warriorsofthe.net/ -Scott -Original Message- From: Larry Sheldon [mailto:larryshel...@cox.net] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 9:46 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Books for the NOC guys... On 4/2/2010 08:39, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: >

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On 4/2/2010 08:39, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:48:48 BST, Michael Dillon said: >>> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? >> >> In an attempt to wean them off of unmanageable PERL scripts > > There is not, and there never will be, a useful programmin

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:48:48 BST, Michael Dillon said: > > So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? > > In an attempt to wean them off of unmanageable PERL scripts There is not, and there never will be, a useful programming language that makes it the least bit difficult to write

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:09:29 -0400 "Robert E. Seastrom" wrote: > This morning I went digging for a book to recommend that someone in > our NOC read in order to understand at a high level how Internet > infrastructure works (bgp, igps, etc) and discovered that the old > standbys (Huitema, Halabi,

RE: Books for the NOC guys...

> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? While not specifically a NOC book, we find that it lays a great foundation to build from (if, perhaps, a bit basic in certain areas): Network Warrior by Gary A. Donahue http://www.amazon.com/Network-Warrior-Everything-need-wasnt/dp/059

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

> So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read? In an attempt to wean them off of unmanageable PERL scripts There are tons of tutorials and articles on the web, often with links to other useful stuff

Re: Books for the NOC guys...

On Apr 2, 2010, at 7:09 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > So, what are you having your up-and-coming NOC staff read?

Books for the NOC guys...

This morning I went digging for a book to recommend that someone in our NOC read in order to understand at a high level how Internet infrastructure works (bgp, igps, etc) and discovered that the old standbys (Huitema, Halabi, Perlman) have all not been updated in a decade or so. On the one hand,