modperl or php? Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Phil Van
My 2 cents. Based on daily traffic: 1 - 1000 unique sessions shared hosting, => CGI Perl (CGI.pm) => Php 1000 - 5000 unique sessions (fun sites) shared hosting (modperl is not available) => CGI Perl + mod_rewrite (to cache dynamic contents) => Php daily traffic: 5,000 - 20,000 unique sessions (

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Foo JH
David Ihnen wrote: > I suppose we need more programmers than those programmers who are just > interested in coding? I never met a good programmer who wasn't > intrinsically interested in it. They like to program, then they realise that being a programmer means been strangled by middle management.

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Foo JH
Octavian Râsnita wrote: > 1. I don't know what it means that perl supports more paradigms than > Java, but I know that the Java / C# OOP style is usually considered > a much complete and better standard than one used by Perl. > Java / DotNet support interfaces, so the classes they c

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Foo JH
Rolf Banting wrote: > 1. Perl supports more programming paradigms than Java. Agreed. The problem is with perception. People identify Perl as a procedural language, and strongly typed languages (ie C#, Java) as modern languages enforcing modern concepts. We all know that's isn't entirely true of cou

Re: Strange Apache behavior

2009-03-26 Thread Perrin Harkins
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:29 PM, B. Prince wrote: > Recently I noticed that every so often the Apache parent process tries to > handle the request after a server restart. Really? I've only seen that when explicitly using the -X option. You might want to see if anyone on the httpd list knows wha

Re: Is Cookbook good perl?

2009-03-26 Thread Perrin Harkins
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Chris Prather wrote: > This is to say if you're making the decision for Mouse, you need to > know what all that entails and currently the propaganda machine is > saying that Mouse == Moose + FAST which simply isn't true. My reason for mentioning Mouse is not speed

[OT] Advocacy (was Re: decline and fall of modperl?)

2009-03-26 Thread Joe Schaefer
Could we PLEASE move this lovely conversation to the advoc...@perl.apache.org mailing list? We have an entire mailing list dedicated to baloney of this sort; please use it so the rest of us trying to provide this little community with meaningful software and support don't have to wade through it.

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread David Ihnen
Octavian Râsnita wrote: *From:* Rolf Banting > Functions are first class citizens in Perl - so you get functional programming built in. You don't in Java. Even the newer perl modules on cpan started to use OOP, and I guess this is because OOP is better, eve

Help needed for mod_perl 1.31-rc6 and Apache::Bootstrap

2009-03-26 Thread Fred Moyer
There's a couple of mod_perl related releases now that need people to test them out. It takes less time to download, untar, and run the test suite for these two releases than it does to write a response to the 'decline of mod_perl' thread that has been going around :) Plus, it will help make you

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Râsnita
From: "Joel Bernstein" - It is the most easy to learn language even by the most stupid programmers. I'd rather it were optimised for competent programmers. Sorry, I just don't see the value here. Stupid programmers are part of the problem. I don't understand. What is the problem? That perl

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Râsnita
From: Rolf Banting > Functions are first class citizens in Perl - so you get functional programming built in. You don't in Java. Even the newer perl modules on cpan started to use OOP, and I guess this is because OOP is better, even though under perl it usually makes the programs run slowe

Re: [m_p] Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Râsnita
From: "Walter Pienciak" I usually lurk on this list, but I could not disagree more with this assertion that perl is somehow harder to learn. This might be because you are thinking to the american or western european market. But think about those many programmers that don't know english, and do

Re: To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Rolf Banting
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Joel Bernstein wrote: > > On 26 Mar 2009, at 13:21, Rolf Banting wrote: > >> Fair enough Simon. I would recommend you look at the Cookbook too - it has >> recipes for everything from iterating through a hash to web automation. >> >> http:/SNIP/perl/cookbook/ >> >

Re: Is Cookbook good perl?

2009-03-26 Thread Dan Stephenson
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:53:30 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote: Object Oriented Perl has more "age" issues than the Cookbook, IMO. It's still an entertaining read, but my advice for newbies would be to read the OO docs that come with Perl for understanding and then consider using Moose/Mouse for ne

Strange Apache behavior

2009-03-26 Thread B. Prince
I've run into a strange Apache/mod_perl issue recently. I have a mod_perl application that has been running just fine for over 6 years. Recently however I noticed that about 1 out of every 5 Apache restarts (we restart nightly for various reasons) results in 500 responses. One (sometimes more) rest

Re: Is Cookbook good perl?

2009-03-26 Thread Perrin Harkins
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:39 PM, David Ihnen wrote: > Do people think that the cookbook is good perl practice? Yes, it's an excellent resource and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. It wouldn't be where I would turn to find out the current best ORM module, but it is where I would tur

Is Cookbook good perl?

2009-03-26 Thread David Ihnen
Rolf Banting wrote: Fair enough Simon. I would recommend you look at the Cookbook too - it has recipes for everything from iterating through a hash to web automation. http://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/perl/cookbook/ Do people think that the cookbook is good perl practice? Its been mentioned a fe

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Rolf Banting
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Octavian Râsnita wrote: > *From:* Rolf Banting > > Foo JH wrote: > > In the academia the general directive in choosing a language would be > > something to this effect: > > 1. teach modern language concepts, such as OO > > 2. minimise the learning curve by way of

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread David Ihnen
Foo JH wrote: David Ihnen wrote: I think you've got it right there. We've got to get perl taught in schools. That means perl experts need to be in teaching. And I have a suspicion that perl doesn't appeal to the pure computer scientist very well - these are the people who invented hard typ

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Râsnita
From: Rolf Banting Foo JH wrote: > In the academia the general directive in choosing a language would be > something to this effect: > 1. teach modern language concepts, such as OO > 2. minimise the learning curve by way of something easy to teach, easy > to learn without having to fig

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Dan Stephenson
On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:55:45 -0400, john saylor wrote: of course, once you get to TMTOWTDI, it's like teaching creative writing And thus, the beauty of it. :) -- ispy++

Re: To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Rolf Banting
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Simon Forster wrote: > > On 26 Mar 2009, at 11:50, Mark Blackman wrote: > > The older answer is something along the lines of "Perl Best Practice" the >> O'Reilly >> book by D. Conway and ideas behind it. See also >> http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2005/07/14/bestpracti

Re: To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Simon Forster
On 26 Mar 2009, at 11:50, Mark Blackman wrote: The older answer is something along the lines of "Perl Best Practice" the O'Reilly book by D. Conway and ideas behind it. See also http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2005/07/14/bestpractices.html . The newer answer is an emerging buzzword called "Modern

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread john saylor
hey On 3/25/2009 11:24 PM, Foo JH wrote: You probably have a feel why Perl isn't a strong choice given these objectives. hmm ... i'm not sure about your second point. it's a somewhat arbitrary example, but look at a 'hello world' in several languages. perl is definitely on the easy side to t

Re: To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Rolf Banting
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Simon Forster wrote: > > On 25 Mar 2009, at 18:23, David Ihnen wrote: > > They've also told me that they know that perl is harder to learn than PHP. >>> What can I tell them? That it is not true? >>> >> Yes, but you may or may not be right. We all agree that com

Re: To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Mark Blackman
On 26 Mar 2009, at 11:35, Simon Forster wrote: And what is the proper way? I've futzed about in a number or languages - including perl - but only at a very basic level with perl. I've got some web stuff to do and thought that having a go with perl may be a pleasant diversion. At the momen

To learn perl... [was: decline and fall of modperl?]

2009-03-26 Thread Simon Forster
On 25 Mar 2009, at 18:23, David Ihnen wrote: They've also told me that they know that perl is harder to learn than PHP. What can I tell them? That it is not true? Yes, but you may or may not be right. We all agree that coming into perl is confusing - too much old data about how to do thing

Re: encrypting perl

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Rasnita
From: "Foo JH" > Business people love the idea of their intellectual property (IP) being > protected by way of code encryption. Try telling them their money-making > code is 'in the open, but everyone's doing it too'. Not exactly a warm > fuzzy feeling. > > This topic has been resurfaced from tim

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Octavian Rasnita
From: "David Ihnen" >> They know it because everybody tell them so. Most web sites are done >> in PHP, most job offer for web programmers ask for PHP experience... > Then they don't know, they just repeat what others say. So I guess all > we can do is repeat what we know from experience, and ho

Re: decline and fall of modperl?

2009-03-26 Thread Rolf Banting
Foo JH wrote: > In the academia the general directive in choosing a language would be > something to this effect: > 1. teach modern language concepts, such as OO > 2. minimise the learning curve by way of something easy to teach, easy > to learn without having to figure out all the details of progr