On January 1, 2020 2:14:03 PM GMT+02:00, Frank Beuth
wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:29:53AM +, e...@isdaq.com wrote:
>>> But I don't want deeper point to get missed -- which is that if eecd
>>> doesn't like the idea of regulating what the programmer can do, then
>the
>>> programmer has to
hello,
> Actually all the cool and useful ideas that perl6 had DID trickle down
> into perl5 a few years ago.
even if you load a lot of modules from CPAN (which i tried to do with
https://metacpan.org/pod/Sympatic), this is not even close to be true!
for example, raku has
* PEGs are objects
* m
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:29:53AM +, e...@isdaq.com wrote:
But I don't want deeper point to get missed -- which is that if eecd
doesn't like the idea of regulating what the programmer can do, then the
programmer has to have the skills to safely write unsafe code.
no you're belying the poin
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:56:46PM -0700, Bob Beck wrote:
> read fucking code. change fucking things. send some fucking diffs. get
> fucking yelled at. learn from your fucking mistakes. show some fucking
> passion. filter fucking misc@ and all this useless bleating into the
> toilet.
>
> none o
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 09:06:38PM +0100, Christer Solskogen wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:50 PM Marc Espie wrote:
>
> > We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic
> > libraries.
> >
> >
> OT but: out of sheer curiosity, why didn't VAX support dynamic libraries?
V
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:06:47AM +0100, Anders Andersson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 4:51 AM Stuart Longland
> wrote:
>
> > Perl 6 will be a major change though, more disruptive than the Python2→3
> > mess was. So we may be in for some "fun" in the near future.
>
> Gotta stop this before
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 10:01:50PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 15:57:47 -0600
> Eric Zylstra wrote:
>
> > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may
> > have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the
> > thread. And my point wasn’t to be
> where do I sign up for OpenBSD write-perfect-C-code programmer training
bootcamp?
here we go ladies and gents an unadulterated look at the manchild in the
wild
as he looks for something else to take responsibility for his work. after
decades of being spoonfed it's lost the ability to fend fo
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:56:46PM -0700, Bob Beck wrote:
read fucking code. change fucking things. send some fucking diffs. get
fucking yelled at. learn from your fucking mistakes. show some fucking
passion. filter fucking misc@ and all this useless bleating into the
toilet.
none of us have
On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 4:51 AM Stuart Longland
wrote:
> Perl 6 will be a major change though, more disruptive than the Python2→3
> mess was. So we may be in for some "fun" in the near future.
Gotta stop this before it derails: perl 6 is not the next version of
perl 5. It's not compatible, it's
read fucking code. change fucking things. send some fucking diffs. get
fucking yelled at. learn from your fucking mistakes. show some fucking
passion. filter fucking misc@ and all this useless bleating into the
toilet.
none of us have time to spoon feed you in some “boot camp”
there are two ty
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 04:00:37AM +, e...@isdaq.com wrote:
rather than the programmer being responsible for
writing unsafe
code we need to regulate what the programmer can do just like we need to
regulate what the community can say, do, see, and think.
where do I sign up for OpenBSD write
> I like where this thread is headed.
>
> To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and
> inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices.
> Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why
> not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too?
>
On 1/1/20 6:06 am, Christer Solskogen wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:50 PM Marc Espie wrote:
>
>> We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic
>> libraries.
>>
>>
> OT but: out of sheer curiosity, why didn't VAX support dynamic libraries?
>
Did vax have an MMU? Tha
On 1/1/20 3:13 am, danieljb...@icloud.com wrote:
> I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in
> use in OpenBSD base.
/bin/sh?
*ducks*
--
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind...
...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
On 31/12/19 10:57 pm, Daniel Boyd wrote:
> As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their
> favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this
> point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the
> perl-based system to
Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 15:57:47 -0600
> Eric Zylstra wrote:
>
> > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may
> > have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the
> > thread. And my point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out
> > tha
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 15:57:47 -0600
Eric Zylstra wrote:
> Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may
> have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the
> thread. And my point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out
> that most proposals unaccompanied by
We could always rewrite the entire operating system in Pascal. FreePascal and
GNU Pascal are both GPL, so we’ll need to write a new compiler as well.
Shouldn’t take too long. Who wants to go register openpascal.org?
I’ll get a diff started
program OpenBSD;
begin
{ some code here }
end.
Sent fr
I am still waiting to this diff myself.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> I guess I'm saying in these trying times it is considered disrespectful
> to dismiss completely labour-unsupported "ideas", obviously once we accept
> the Great Idea the OP will sit down and do all the
I guess I'm saying in these trying times it is considered disrespectful
to dismiss completely labour-unsupported "ideas", obviously once we accept
the Great Idea the OP will sit down and do all the required work to prove
the cast after the fact.
Eric Zylstra wrote:
> Proposing such a huge projec
Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may have been a
little disrespectful, but not the first one in the thread. And my point wasn’t
to be disrespectful, but to point out that most proposals unaccompanied by code
and that don’t solve obvious problems don’t seem to be re
Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to
write such a large diff?
> Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua and
> then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, right?
> If it really is a great idea, they’d all be
Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua and
then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, right? If
it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In any case, it would
kill this thread.
EZ
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 31, 20
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:50 PM Marc Espie wrote:
> We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic
> libraries.
>
>
OT but: out of sheer curiosity, why didn't VAX support dynamic libraries?
On 12-31 14:02, Raul Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM wrote:
> > I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in
> > use in OpenBSD base.
> It's pretty easy to download the sources for base, and then:
> tar zxf src.tar.gz
> find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's
I like where this thread is headed.
To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and
inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices.
Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why
not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too?
Hear me out. W
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 02:02:47PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
> tar zxf src.tar.gz
> find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort
> -n | tail -40
That was fun, I learned about the -n option :) Thanks!
wise@hup:/usr/src$ find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort |
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM wrote:
> I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in
> use in OpenBSD base.
It's pretty easy to download the sources for base, and then:
tar zxf src.tar.gz
find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort
-n | tail -
Certainly, there are situations where perl isn't the best choice. And in
those unfortunate situations, other languages may be considered, however
begrudgingly. :)
I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in
use in OpenBSD base.
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 05:39:03PM +0100,
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> Roderick wrote:
>> I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would
>> not be a candidate.
[...]
> Wow, it's a lot like you can't read.
It is more an academic question. I wanted to know more objective
critera than personal preferen
Raul Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:46 AM Roderick wrote:
> > I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would
> > not be a candidate.
>
> If OpenLuaBSD would be a welcome fork, I don't see why OpenTCLBSD
> would be any worse.
>
> Doesn't mean anyone wants to wri
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:46 AM Roderick wrote:
> I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would
> not be a candidate.
If OpenLuaBSD would be a welcome fork, I don't see why OpenTCLBSD
would be any worse.
Doesn't mean anyone wants to write it.
--
Raul
Roderick wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Marc Espie wrote:
>
> > lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid
> > candidate would be python.
>
> I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would
> not be a candidate.
>
> I suspect, tcl is being un
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 10:45:34PM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
> On 31/12/19 3:54 pm, Marc Espie wrote:
> > Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be
> > easier to understand and manage if written in another language.
>
> I'm of the opinion that "if it ain't broken
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Marc Espie wrote:
> lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid
> candidate would be python.
I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would
not be a candidate.
I suspect, tcl is being underestimated, and the decission for one
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 06:57:02AM -0600, Daniel Boyd wrote:
> As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their
> favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this
> point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the
>
Perl is my favorite language, too. Perl can be gnarly but I love it. I have
zero experience with Lua so I can’t judge it but I’d like Perl to stay in
Base.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, Daniel Boyd wrote:
> As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be
> their favorite l
As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their
favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this
point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the
perl-based system tools notwithstanding.
I decided learn perl becaus
On 31/12/19 3:54 pm, Marc Espie wrote:
> Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be
> easier to understand and manage if written in another language.
I'm of the opinion that "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". What is
"broken" about Perl that we're trying to fix with
Marc Espie wrote:
> Removing perl from base would be very painful.
>
> I don't fancy rewriting all the perl tools in something else (specifically,
> most of the ports and package infrastructure)
>
> lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid
> candidate would be pytho
Removing perl from base would be very painful.
I don't fancy rewriting all the perl tools in something else (specifically,
most of the ports and package infrastructure)
lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid
candidate would be python.
Contrary to what some people m
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
> > attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD project as a whole.
>
> 1) I think that is a baseless and irrelevant claim.
>
> 2) No.
It is not about the claim, he is trying to sell
writes:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to bring up the following suggestion:
>
> Would it be desirable for the OpenBSD project to replace Perl with Lua
> in the base system? A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
> attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD project as a whole.
>
> The source c
On 2019-12-30 18:07, ansim...@tutanota.com wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to bring up the following suggestion:
Would it be desirable for the OpenBSD project to replace Perl with Lua
in the base system? A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD projec
Hi Theo,
Noted.
Thanks for the consideration,
ansimita
Dec 31, 2019, 00:15 by dera...@openbsd.org:
> wrote:
>
>> A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
>> attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD project as a whole.
>>
>
> 1) I think that is a baseless and irrelevant claim.
>
>
wrote:
> A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
> attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD project as a whole.
1) I think that is a baseless and irrelevant claim.
2) No.
Am Di., 31. Dez. 2019 um 01:08 Uhr schrieb :
> Would it be desirable for the OpenBSD project to replace Perl with Lua
> in the base system? A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
IMNSHO no.
You are welcome to fork your OpenLuaBSD project, though.
Looking forward to your first release.
Hi,
I'd like to bring up the following suggestion:
Would it be desirable for the OpenBSD project to replace Perl with Lua
in the base system? A smaller base afforded to by Lua will reduce the
attack surface and complexity of the OpenBSD project as a whole.
The source contains around 24000 line
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