David ( Ford ) , I think you are misunderstanding a bit here.
The problem here is not that a fsck is needed after an unclean umount,
but that users are forced to corrupt ( by unclean umount due to reset or
poweroff ) their perfectly good file system on a "perfectly" working
system, when their keyb
Otto Wyss wrote:
>
> > I had a similar experience:
> > X crashed , hosing the console , so I could not initiate
> > a proper shutdown.
> >
> > Here I must note that the response you got on linux-kernel is
> > shameful.
> >
> Thanks, but I expected it a little bit. All around Linux is centered
> a
Gerhard Mack wrote:
>
> This sounds very nice.. can such a thing be done with the reset switch as
> well?
Don't think so.
I'm not sure , but I think that the reset button is directly connected
to the reset pin of most chips and can not be overrided.
Off course this is the first candidate for a "
> > You probably haven't tried to use sync or you would have noticed the
> > performace penalty. I think nobody really considers sync an alternative.
> >
> > O. Wyss
>
> You can't have the best of everything. There are tradeoffs. A viable option is > a
>journaled filesystem. Linux boasts a fe
Otto Wyss wrote:
> > No, the correct answer is if you want a reliable recovery then run your disks
> > in non write buffered mode. I.e. turn on sync in fstab.
> >
> You probably haven't tried to use sync or you would have noticed the
> performace penalty. I think nobody really considers sync an
> No, the correct answer is if you want a reliable recovery then run your disks
> in non write buffered mode. I.e. turn on sync in fstab.
>
You probably haven't tried to use sync or you would have noticed the
performace penalty. I think nobody really considers sync an alternative.
O. Wyss
-
To
Otto Wyss wrote:
> > I had a similar experience:
> > X crashed , hosing the console , so I could not initiate
> > a proper shutdown.
> >
> > Here I must note that the response you got on linux-kernel is
> > shameful.
> >
> Thanks, but I expected it a little bit. All around Linux is centered
> aro
> I had a similar experience:
> X crashed , hosing the console , so I could not initiate
> a proper shutdown.
>
> Here I must note that the response you got on linux-kernel is
> shameful.
>
Thanks, but I expected it a little bit. All around Linux is centered
around getting the highest performanc
This sounds very nice.. can such a thing be done with the reset switch as
well?
Gerhard
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, David Balazic wrote:
> I had a similar experience:
> X crashed , hosing the console , so I could not initiate
> a proper shutdown.
>
> Here I must note that the response you g
I had a similar experience:
X crashed , hosing the console , so I could not initiate
a proper shutdown.
Here I must note that the response you got on linux-kernel is
shameful.
What I did was to write a kernel/apmd patch , that performed a
proper shutdown when I press the power button ( which lu
Followup to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
By author:Otto Wyss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
>
> It was just a simple test machine where it didn't matter what was lost.
> Still that doesn't justify this behaviour.
>
Then use a journalling filesystem. If not, give it a few minut
On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 11:35:55PM +0100, Otto Wyss wrote:
> > you can avoid all of these problems. Or use a journaling filesystem ext3/xfs, etc.
>
> So in real live you would propose to put fences and nets everywhere to
> prevent children from possibly falling in abyses?
I think you've got it
> Actually, I think /etc/mtab is not needed at all. Originally, UNIX
> used to put as much onto the disk (and not in "core") as possible.
> so much state information related only to one boot-cycle was
> taken out of kernel and stored on disk. /var/run/utmp, /etc/mtab,
> , rmtab, and many other
Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> Unix and other such variants have what's called a Virtual File System
> (VFS).
Correct, but hardly relevant here, except possibly that this enables you
to use a different, perhaps more resilient file system.
> The idea behind this is to keep as much recently-used file
(Recipients trimmed, as this is a major change of topic...)
[big cut]
> Actually, I think /etc/mtab is not needed at all.
This is already mostly correct, AFAIK.
My embedded system uses "busybox" for mount and umount, /etc/mtab
does not exist, and the root file system is readonly.
But if
Guy,
I wrote APCUPSD beginning back in 95/96 for this reason.
American Power Conversion is now friendly to Linux.
http://www.linux-ide.org/apcupsd.html
Cheers,
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Stephen Satchell wrote:
> At 01:16 PM 3/19/01 -0800, Torrey Hoffman wrote:
> >Yes. Some of this is your respon
"Stephen Gutknecht (linux-kernel)" wrote:
>
> Otto,
>
[...]
> Have you considered telnet into your box from a second machine? Even a 486
> system would do this fine... network cards are cheap. You could try to
> recover the system or at least do a shutdown.
>
It was just a simple test machine
Jeremy Jackson wrote:
>
> Brian Gerst wrote:
>
> > "Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Otto Wyss wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
[..]
> > > Unix and other such variants have what's called a Virtual File System
At 01:16 PM 3/19/01 -0800, Torrey Hoffman wrote:
>Yes. Some of this is your responsibility. You have several options:
>1. Get a UPS. That would not have helped your particular problem,
>but it's a good idea if you care about data integrity.
>2. Use a journaling file system. These are much
"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Brian Gerst wrote:
> [SNIPPED...]
>
> >
> > At the very least the disk should be consistent with memory. If the
> > dirty pages aren't written back to the disk (but not necessarily removed
> > from memory) after a reasonable idle period, then th
ECTED]]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 11:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Linux should better cope with power failure
Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
situation was switching power off and on af
"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Brian Gerst wrote:
> [SNIPPED...]
>
> >
> > At the very least the disk should be consistent with memory. If the
> > dirty pages aren't written back to the disk (but not necessarily removed
> > from memory) after a reasonable idle period, then
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Brian Gerst wrote:
[SNIPPED...]
>
> At the very least the disk should be consistent with memory. If the
> dirty pages aren't written back to the disk (but not necessarily removed
> from memory) after a reasonable idle period, then there is room for
> improvement.
>
Hmmm.
Otto Wyss wrote:
> situation was switching power off and on after a few minutes of
> inactivity. From the impression I got during the following startup, I
You aren't giving a lot of detail here. I assume your startup scripts run
fsck, and you saw a lot of errors. Were any of them uncorrectable
Brian Gerst wrote:
> "Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Otto Wyss wrote:
> >
> > > Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
> > > since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
> > > situation was switching power off and on aft
"Richard B. Johnson" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Otto Wyss wrote:
>
> > Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
> > since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
> > situation was switching power off and on after a few minutes of
> > inactivi
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Otto Wyss wrote:
> inactivity. From the impression I got during the following startup, I
> assume Linux (2.4.2, EXT2-filesystem) is not very suited to any power
> failiure or manually switching it off. Not even if there wasn't any
> activity going on.
What data, if any, did
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Otto Wyss wrote:
> Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
> since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
> situation was switching power off and on after a few minutes of
> inactivity. From the impression I got during the fo
Otto Wyss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
> since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
> situation was switching power off and on after a few minutes of
> inactivity. From the impression I got during the foll
Lately I had an USB failure, leaving me without any access to my system
since I only use an USB-keyboard/-mouse. All I could do in that
situation was switching power off and on after a few minutes of
inactivity. From the impression I got during the following startup, I
assume Linux (2.4.2, EXT2-fi
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