Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Alexander Viro
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Alexander Viro wrote: > > > > > > Comments? Basically the "grab_cache_page()" would be a "read_cache_page()" > > > instead with all the wait-on-page etc stuff. > > > > Works for me. However, that way it looks like a fs/buf

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Linus Torvalds
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jamie Lokier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I just thought I'd mention that you can do zero copy TCP in and out >*without* any page marking schemes. All you need is a network card with >quite a lot of RAM and some intelligence. An Alteon could do it, with >extra R

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Bob Taylor
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jeff V. Merkey" writes: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Jes Sorensen wrote: > > > > > Yeah I bet NT also has a wonderful graphical click click wush wush > > environment for it that allows you to spend all your time `improving' > > your rsi instead of getting real

Re: Rik van Riel's VM patch

2000-09-02 Thread Mark Hahn
> have trouble with the readings bonnie gives me. um, that's because you used too-small a file. try it with -s at least 3x the size of ram. so far, reports are fairly consistent that Rik's patch cause a minor hit in sustained disk IO, and some real benefit on low-memory machines. - To unsub

Re: MTBF data for linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jim Barriault
Alan Cox wrote: > > Alpha and SMP are both things that seem to reduce your MTBF .. > Not to start an architecture war or anything like that, but I've had uni and smp alpha linux boxes stay up under moderate to heavy loads for nearly twice as long as any x86 box. All of them, both alpha and x

Re: Oops/kernel panic with CD jukebox, 2.4.0-test{6,7}

2000-09-02 Thread Steven S. Dick
Anssi V I Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Greetings. I'm having serious problems with my external NEC/Nakamichi >MBR-7 7-CD jukebox. Linux gives me an oops _every_time_ I try to >access two CDs from that jukebox at the same time and sometimes it even >gives me a kernel panic when I'm doing

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Alexander Viro wrote: > > > > Comments? Basically the "grab_cache_page()" would be a "read_cache_page()" > > instead with all the wait-on-page etc stuff. > > Works for me. However, that way it looks like a fs/buffer.c fodder. > Mind if I just call it block_zero_page(page, f

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Alexander Viro
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Linus Torvalds wrote: > You don't actually have to be smart. > > There's a really simple way to avoid this: compare the thing you're going > to zero out against zero before you memset() it to zero. If it was already > zero, you just unlock the page and release. > > Downsi

Re: Variable Block Chains in ll_rw_block()

2000-09-02 Thread Andre Hedrick
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > Linus, > > This morning I tried what you suggested last night, and saw some issues > with the Adaptec SCSI driver doing an Oops when I tried 1024-512-1024 > with the block check removed on 2.2.16. The IDE driver did not barf > but when I tried it

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Alexander Viro wrote: > + > + /* > + * So truncate in the middle of a hole not on a block boundary will > + * allocate a block. BFD. Everything is still consistent, so trying > + * to be smart is not worth the trouble. > + */ You don't actually have t

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS forLinux

2000-09-02 Thread Andre Hedrick
Apology to Jeff, I am sorry to here of this, but I know what you mean about microsoft. My and co-worker's code for doing full taskfile access under linux was rejected here but is being used in MicroSoft Whistler 2001. They are quick to grab the very best of Linux and adopt it for their own. Ye

NR_TASKS

2000-09-02 Thread Mike A. Harris
To change NR_TASKS, can one just redefine it somehow in the top Makefile, or must one edit the actual header file? I'm looking at a quick and dirty way of automating changing NR_TASKS more easily. Also, why isn't this a config item on the config menu's? How difficult would it be to add to the m

Re: [Fwd: Client Server NEWS FLASH: Novell Plans To Can 60% OverTime]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
"Jeff V. Merkey" wrote: I've got a lot of responses to this. Any companies out there who have job postings and the need for some talented networking engineers in Utah, please send us the info so we can post it on our website. If there's Linux work, these guys can do what we did, and learn Lin

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
"Jeff V. Merkey" wrote: I've got a lot of responses to this. Any companies out there who have job postings and the need for some talented networking engineers in Utah, please send us the info so we can post it on our website. If there's Linux work, these guys can do what we did, and learn Lin

2.2.18pre2 compilation failure

2000-09-02 Thread Edward C. Lang
This came up today. cc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -m486 -malign-loops=2 -malign-jumps=2 -malign-functions=2 -DCPU=586 -DEXPORT_SYMTAB -c signal.c In file included from /usr/src/linu

Re: Linux Chat Servers

2000-09-02 Thread Gerhard Mack
And the problem with irc.openprojects.net is ... ? Gerhard On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Michael Peddemors wrote: > Sorta off the topic, but just setup a 'Chat Room' For Linux Specific Topics... > If it is useful, we will expand the concept and set it up on a dedicated > server etc.. > http://w

Linux Chat Servers

2000-09-02 Thread Michael Peddemors
Sorta off the topic, but just setup a 'Chat Room' For Linux Specific Topics... If it is useful, we will expand the concept and set it up on a dedicated server etc.. http://www.linuxmagic.com/chat CHAT For Linux Only Thought it would be nice for some people to hash out some of these ideas in r

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS forLinux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Andre, One of our best friends we've known for years tried to kill himself when Novell layed him off. I will reconsider later, but not now. Not with what's going on at Novell. If we post it, Microsoft will grab it and it will be in NT within 48 hours of them downloading it from our site. Lin

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Petr, I could give you a packet burst module to study. It's MANOS version and not linux, so you will need to backport it, but it will let you fake out a NetWare server without needing all this memory. Jeff Petr Vandrovec wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 12:00:13AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: >

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS forLinux

2000-09-02 Thread Andre Hedrick
Jeff, Have you been in the bottle again? If this is not a joke, it is not funny. On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > TRG has reprioritized it's long term objectives, and due to resource > constraints and short term schedules, the Open Source NDS and Open > Source NTFS File System pr

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jamie Lokier
Jes Sorensen wrote: > You can't DMA directly from a file cache page unless you have a > network card that does scatter/gather DMA and surprise surprise, > 80-90% of the cards on the market don't support this. Besides that you > need to do copy-on-write if you want to be able to do zero copy on > w

Re: 2.4.0test7 panics on boot

2000-09-02 Thread Ahmed El-Mahmoudy
On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, Stephen Lee wrote: > Felix von Leitner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The last non-panic message on screen is: > > > > IPv6 v0.8 for NET4.0 > > > > The panic reason is "attempting to kill init". > > Has anyone else had this problem? > > I have the same problem if I hav

Oops in 2.4.0-test8pre2

2000-09-02 Thread Udo A. Steinberg
Hi folks, I got the following oops right upon rebooting as killall5 attempted to kill off processes. OS is 2.4.0-test8pre2/vanilla. The decoded oops follows: Regards, Udo ksymoops 2.3.4 on i686 2.4.0-test8. Options used -V (default) -k /proc/ksyms (default) -l /proc/modules (d

Adaptec 2930U2 followup

2000-09-02 Thread Bob_Tracy
Thought it might be worth a followup report in case anyone was interested. All the problems I was seeing with my 2930U2 went bye-bye when I replaced my bottom-feeder M537 VXpro motherboard with a Tyan S1590S. Current setup is Linux 2.4.0-test7 with the aic7xxx driver compiled in. -- Bob Tracy

Re: Rik van Riel's VM patch

2000-09-02 Thread safemode
Just like to thank Rik for this one. The patch is unbelievable and I have trouble with the readings bonnie gives me. (before kernel patch (2.4.0-test8-pre1 with Low latency patch) ---Sequential Output ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Petr Vandrovec
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 12:00:13AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > **NCP** is does not reside in IPX at all. That's why the implementation > > in Linux is busted. The window size is variable and keys off of HOW > > MANY FREE ECBS ARE IN THE SYSTEM. It doe not belong in the IPX/SPX > > stack, but ins

Re: 2.2.18pre2: gcc 2.7 doesn't like __attr__((unused))

2000-09-02 Thread Chip Salzenberg
According to Alan Cox: > > I'm not sure if __attribute__((unused)) has an equivalent in gcc 2.7, > > but as it appears in the AGP driver, it doesn't work with gcc 2.7. > > Try static void __attribute((unused)) unused(void) I'm afraid that didn't work either. -- Chip Salzenberg - a.

[Fwd: Client Server NEWS FLASH: Novell Plans To Can 60% Over Time]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
The other reason I am withdrawing NDS on Linux is to staunch the flow of blood from Novell's jugular and prevent Microsoft from snatching it up and using it to kill Novell. Just in case folks don't understand, the person in this article who attempted suicide was a friend of ours. I don't want t

Re: Rik van Riel's VM patch

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Someone tell Rik to get his hands on a copy of AIMS-7 and start benchmarking his VM so when the SCO Unix numbers hit the street, we've got a rebuttal and fix dates to tell folks. :-) Jeff Bill Huey wrote: > > John, > > > Hi, this is just a short no-statistics testimony that Rik's VM patch >

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > > > **NCP** is does not reside in IPX at all. That's why the implementation > > in Linux is busted. The window size is variable and keys off of HOW > > MANY FREE ECBS ARE IN THE SYSTEM. It doe not belong in the IPX/SPX > > stack, but inside of MARS-NWE proper. > > Packet

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
There's been a few cards around since about 1995, but I don't remember all of them. I do remember having to debug SMP code on them though -- yec Jeff Jes Sorensen wrote: > > > "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jeff> Jes Sorensen wrote: > >> You just told us

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> Jes Sorensen wrote: >> You just told us earlier in the thread that NetWare does direct >> zero copy DMA but thats only half the story obviously. Up until the >> era of Gigabit Ethernet cards there were almost no PCI cards >> availab

Re: What the Heck? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

2000-09-02 Thread Matthew Dharm
I missed the beginning of this thread, but I can guess what's going on here... According to the ORBS database, rr.com specifically requested all automated testing for open mail relays to stop. As such, ORBS lists all IPs in the rr.com domain as 127.0.0.4, which is their code for "manually entere

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Alexander Viro
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Alexander Viro wrote: > IOW, bug in question _does_ give the same kind of behaviour, but whether > innd is hitting it or something different that happens to act like that... > The only way to know is to try it. > > I'll send rediffed patch in half an hour. All right, it t

Re: What the Heck? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

2000-09-02 Thread Albert D. Cahalan
Alan Cox writes: >> What is the deal here? I have NEVER seen anyboody flatly refuse email >> from me. Are you telling me I have to go into work and use my >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address to talk to Alan? That's asinine. > > When you get as much spam aimed at you as I do because the address > i

Re: Rik van Riel's VM patch

2000-09-02 Thread Byron Stanoszek
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Bill Huey wrote: > > John, > > > Hi, this is just a short no-statistics testimony that Rik's VM patch > > to test8-pre1 seems much improved over test7. I have a UP P200 with 40Mb, > > and previously running KDE2 + mozilla was totally unusable. > > > With the patch, things

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VM now?

2000-09-02 Thread bert hubert
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 12:56:07PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > I'd like to know what it was. Last I heard, it was still the case of > "pages just off the freelist had some bits set that they shouldn't have". > That makes me nervous. Perhaps this is an example of a problem that would be found

ext2 corruption with 2.4.0-test7-proper ?

2000-09-02 Thread Adam
Hmmm I just discovered that my filesystem got fairly corrupted with 2.4.0-test7 proper. It has been up for 5 days nonstop and there was no problems. I have decided to shut it down only to discover that contest of /sbin directory is pretty much a soup. went back to 2.4.0-test7-pre2 and it seem

Re: Rik van Riel's VM patch

2000-09-02 Thread Bill Huey
John, > Hi, this is just a short no-statistics testimony that Rik's VM patch > to test8-pre1 seems much improved over test7. I have a UP P200 with 40Mb, > and previously running KDE2 + mozilla was totally unusable. > With the patch, things run much more smoothly. Interactive feel seems > bette

RE: thread rant [semi-OT]

2000-09-02 Thread Marty Fouts
just an aside on asynchronous i/o: concurrency by asychronous I/O actually predates concurrency via thread-like models, and goes back to the earliest OS-precursors. Early work on thread-like concurrency models were, in part, a response to the difficulties inherent in getting asynchronous I/O rig

Re: fix: Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre2 compile fails at smbfs

2000-09-02 Thread Urban Widmark
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Mohammad A. Haque wrote: > replace current->signal with current->pending.signal > > can anyone verify? I think so, both from reading what the test8-pre2 patch does and from looking at what smbfs does with current->signal. But it's late so you may be better off trying the opp

RE: thread rant

2000-09-02 Thread Marty Fouts
I'm confused. Threads are harder than *what* to get right? If you need concurrency, you need concurrency, and any existing model is hard. Besides, at some level, all of the concurrency models come down to a variant on threads, anyway. -Original Message- From: Alexander Viro [mailto:[EM

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VMnow?

2000-09-02 Thread Alexander Viro
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > 1) the innd data corruption bug > > This, I think, was due to a bug in ext2 truncate. If so, it should be > fixed in test8-pre2. Ted had ACKed the previous chunk of truncate changes, so that one will go immediately once the -pre2 is on ftp.kernel

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> There is a checksum field in IPX, but it always contains x. Drew > always assumed upper layer programs, like NDS, would do heir own > checksumming for integrity, and in fact, this is how it's instrumented > in NetWare. Which is actually a design flaw on a modern architecture since it may c

Re: thread group comments

2000-09-02 Thread Mark Kettenis
Because of my stupidity Linus' reply didn't make it to linux-kernel. Here it is for those who're interested: --- Start of forwarded message --- X-Authentication-Warning: penguin.transmeta.com: torvalds owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 11:56:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Linus Torvalds

fix: Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre2 compile fails at smbfs

2000-09-02 Thread Mohammad A. Haque
replace current->signal with current->pending.signal can anyone verify? Ari Pollak wrote: > > Building 2.4.0-test8-pre2 fails with smbfs enabled: > > kgcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2 > -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe > -march=i686 -malign-functions=4 -fno-

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Andi Kleen wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 04:28:18PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > > > > Alan Cox wrote: > > > > > > We dont copy for checksumming. We fold the single user space copy and the > > > checksum operation into one path, because on any modern CPU it costs precisely > > > the

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre2 compile fails at smbfs

2000-09-02 Thread Mohammad A. Haque
Same with coda make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux/fs/coda' gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -fno-strict-aliasing -DMODULE -DMODVERSIONS -include /usr/src/linux/include/linux/modver

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan, I'm impressed!!! You do understand NetWare architecture very well. Some corrections though. Alan Cox wrote: > > > You just told us earlier in the thread that NetWare does direct zero > > copy DMA but thats only half the story obviously. Up until the era of > > Gigabit Ethernet cards th

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 04:28:18PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > Alan Cox wrote: > > > > We dont copy for checksumming. We fold the single user space copy and the > > checksum operation into one path, because on any modern CPU it costs precisely > > the same to copy as to copy/checksum. >

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> He said memory to memory transfers. I also said data aquisition servers to data processing clients. Jes - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Jes Sorensen wrote: > > > "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jeff> **ALL** Netware network drivers support a scatter/gather > Jeff> proramming interface, whether the hardware does or not. In > Jeff> NetWare, the drivers get passed a fragment list in what's called > Je

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> You stated in an earlier message you copied the data when you caclulated > the TCPIP checksum? No you say you don't. Perhaps I misunderstood. We do a single copy/checksum from user space. You have to do the copy because the packet may not be DMAable, may not be aligned for most PCI hardware a

Re: www.crucial.com won't talk to 2.4.0-test7 system

2000-09-02 Thread Alex Buell
On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, David S. Miller wrote: > If Alan or myself tell Cisco about this bug, they are very unlikely to > move very fast. But if some of their largest site customers begin to > moan, expect a more timely fix :-) I have an contact at Cisco - I'll certainly raise this with him. Cheer

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> You just told us earlier in the thread that NetWare does direct zero > copy DMA but thats only half the story obviously. Up until the era of > Gigabit Ethernet cards there were almost no PCI cards available that > would do scatter/gather so obviously netware wasn't doing zero copy > either. Net

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Andi Kleen wrote: > > It works today, but won't in the future. At some point, real sleep > > locks will be needed for SMP tuning since you can give them prioities > > and put deadlock detection into the sleep locks for apps. Priority > > inheritance allows you to bump the priority of folks ho

2.4.0-test8-pre2 compile fails at smbfs

2000-09-02 Thread Ari Pollak
Building 2.4.0-test8-pre2 fails with smbfs enabled: kgcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -march=i686 -malign-functions=4 -fno-strict-aliasing -DMODULE -DMODVERSIONS -include /usr/src/linux/include/linux/modversions.h -DSMBFS_PARANO

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
He said memory to memory transfers. Jeff Alan Cox wrote: > > > > I'd love to see a netware box sustain 110MB/sec (MB as in mega byte) > > > memory to memory in two TCP streams between dual 400MHz P2 boxes. > > > > What the hell does a NUMA interconnect have to do with networking. Who > > wo

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > We dont copy for checksumming. We fold the single user space copy and the > checksum operation into one path, because on any modern CPU it costs precisely > the same to copy as to copy/checksum. You stated in an earlier message you copied the data when you caclulated the TC

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > There arent copies all over the case for the paths that occur. Like 99.999% > > of the time. Fragmented packets dont happen except for NFS (which is a rather > > broken protocol anyway). > > There are. You forgot to cite them > > the socket operations from user space use file-> dereferen

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 04:16:47PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > Uless of course you need to debug the serial driver -- then you're > fucked. Not quite, the gdb stub uses an private polled serial driver. The only hook into the serial driver is very early into the interrupt to tap the break char.

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > The equivalent to the netware specialist fast paths for file serving is Tux, > > and Tux currently holds a world record. I'd love to see Manos beat Linux + > > Tux at specweb. That would vindicate your arguments > > Who wrote Tux? USL while at Novell. Enough said. No, Ingo Molnar in Hungar

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Sounds like Linux - one DMA and one copy to user space. > > > > Alan, Please. I'm in your code and there are copies all over the > > place. I agree you have a "fast path" for most stuff, but there's all > > There arent copies all over the case for the paths that occur

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > line and executes very simple commands like read memory etc.). I don't > > see much point in debugging that. > > Uless of course you need to debug the serial driver -- then you're > fucked. Wrong. Please RTFM on the gdb stubs. If you are going to get into an argument doing your research firs

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> **ALL** Netware network drivers support a scatter/gather Jeff> proramming interface, whether the hardware does or not. In Jeff> NetWare, the drivers get passed a fragment list in what's called Jeff> an ECB (Event Control Block). It

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> Jes Sorensen wrote: >> I'd love to see a netware box sustain 110MB/sec (MB as in mega >> byte) memory to memory in two TCP streams between dual 400MHz P2 >> boxes. Jeff> What the hell does a NUMA interconnect have to do with Jeff>

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > I'd love to see a netware box sustain 110MB/sec (MB as in mega byte) > > memory to memory in two TCP streams between dual 400MHz P2 boxes. > > What the hell does a NUMA interconnect have to do with networking. Who > would be braindead enough to waste processing cycles passing Network > data

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > > file system operation. What I wrote is THREE TIMES FASTER THAN WHAT'S > > IN LINUX. Care to do a challenge. Let's take my NetWare code and see > > which is faster and lower latency on a Network. Mine or Linux's. I bet > > you $100.00 it will beat the Linux code in eve

Re: [Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> file system operation. What I wrote is THREE TIMES FASTER THAN WHAT'S > IN LINUX. Care to do a challenge. Let's take my NetWare code and see > which is faster and lower latency on a Network. Mine or Linux's. I bet > you $100.00 it will beat the Linux code in every test. At what. IPX - sure

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Andi Kleen wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 04:01:24PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > > > Of course not. Linux does not have a kernel debugger, or it would use > > them. That's what they are used for -- debugging running tasks from a > > kernel debugger that has it's own task gates. If

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > Sounds like Linux - one DMA and one copy to user space. > > Alan, Please. I'm in your code and there are copies all over the > place. I agree you have a "fast path" for most stuff, but there's all There arent copies all over the case for the paths that occur. Like 99.999% of the time. Frag

[Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Jes Sorensen wrote: > > > "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jeff> Jes, > > Jeff> I wrote the SMP ODI networking layer in NetWare that used today by > Jeff> over 90,000,000 NetWare users. I also wrote the SMP LLC8022 > Jeff> Stack, the SMP IPX/SPX Stack, and the

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 04:01:24PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > Andi Kleen wrote: > > > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:34:47PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > > > > KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug complex > > > register and numeric evaluation statements lik

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
**ALL** Netware network drivers support a scatter/gather proramming interface, whether the hardware does or not. In NetWare, the drivers get passed a fragment list in what's called an ECB (Event Control Block). It's the drivers responsiblity to assemble the fragment lists. We did it this way t

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [since you like to forward things after sending me a private email, I'll do the same]. Jeff> I wrote the SMP ODI networking layer in NetWare that used today by Jeff> over 90,000,000 NetWare users. I also wrote the SMP LLC8022 Jeff> Stack

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 10:35:11PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > to MANOS, and what a mess indeed. In NetWare, the only time data ever > > gets copied from incoming packets is: > > > > 1. A copy to userspace at a stream head. > > 2. An incoming write that gets copied into the file cache. > > Soun

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Andi Kleen wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:34:47PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > > > KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug complex > > register and numeric evaluation statements like IF ((EAX == 1) && > > [ESP-4] == 0x3000)? NO. Can it debug nested task gate

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > Remote gdb on Linux - yes and I can do my debugging source level. Unfortunately > Linus seems to have a one man campaign against putting sensible debugging into > his kernel. > > The tools exist and they should be in the x86 tree as well as sparc etc where > with other main

[Fwd: zero-copy TCP]

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Jes, I wrote the SMP ODI networking layer in NetWare that used today by over 90,000,000 NetWare users. I also wrote the SMP LLC8022 Stack, the SMP IPX/SPX Stack, and the SMP OSPF TCPIP stack in NetWare. I think I know what the hell I'm doing here. Most Network protocols assume a primary/s

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> all over the place that increases latency. Not to mention the Jeff> overhead of the type of interrupt and trap gates that suck up Jeff> about 50 clocks to fetch the IDT, PDE, and GDT tables for every Jeff> interrupt. NetWare copies

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Jes Sorensen wrote: > > Yeah I bet NT also has a wonderful graphical click click wush wush > environment for it that allows you to spend all your time `improving' > your rsi instead of getting real work done. Have you ever looked at NT > device driver code? I have, it's not pretty at all so I

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 03:34:47PM -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug complex > register and numeric evaluation statements like IF ((EAX == 1) && > [ESP-4] == 0x3000)? NO. Can it debug nested task gate exceptions? remote gdb does th

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Alan Cox wrote: > > > to MANOS, and what a mess indeed. In NetWare, the only time data ever > > gets copied from incoming packets is: > > > > 1. A copy to userspace at a stream head. > > 2. An incoming write that gets copied into the file cache. > > Sounds like Linux - one DMA and one copy t

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug Jeff> complex register and numeric evaluation statements like IF ((EAX Jeff> == 1) && [ESP-4] == 0x3000)? NO. Can it debug nested task gate Jeff> exceptions? NO. Can

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug complex > register and numeric evaluation statements like IF ((EAX == 1) && > [ESP-4] == 0x3000)? NO. Can it debug nested task gate exceptions? > NO. Can it debug SMP locks races? NO. Can it debug priority inversion > problems

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Alan Cox
> to MANOS, and what a mess indeed. In NetWare, the only time data ever > gets copied from incoming packets is: > > 1. A copy to userspace at a stream head. > 2. An incoming write that gets copied into the file cache. Sounds like Linux - one DMA and one copy to user space. > Reads from cache

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff, could you start by learning to quote email and not send a full copy of the entire email you reply to (read rfc1855). Jeff> The entire Linux Network subsystem needs an overhaul. The code Jeff> copies data all over the place. I am at

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
KDB is putrid. Can it debug double faults? NO. Can it debug complex register and numeric evaluation statements like IF ((EAX == 1) && [ESP-4] == 0x3000)? NO. Can it debug nested task gate exceptions? NO. Can it debug SMP locks races? NO. Can it debug priority inversion problems in sleep

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Jeff" == Jeff V Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeff> TRG has reprioritized it's long term objectives, and due to Jeff> resource constraints and short term schedules, the Open Source Jeff> NDS and Open Source NTFS File System projects are being Jeff> withdrawn from the Linux Initiative.

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
The entire Linux Network subsystem needs an overhaul. The code copies data all over the place. I am at present pulling it apart and porting it to MANOS, and what a mess indeed. In NetWare, the only time data ever gets copied from incoming packets is: 1. A copy to userspace at a stream head. 2.

Re: zero-copy TCP

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "Ingo" == Ingo Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ingo> On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Dan Maas wrote: >> There are various other tricks that can be done to speed up network >> servers, like passing files directly from the buffer cache to the >> network card. This one is currently frowned upon by the

Re: Linux 2.2.18pre2

2000-09-02 Thread Jes Sorensen
> "David" == David S Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 19:01:18 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Cox > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >o Acenic 0.45 fixes (Chip Salzenberg) David> This adds a huge comment claiming to fix some race condition, David> but no actual code is changed.

Re: IrDA and PCMCIA

2000-09-02 Thread Igmar Palsenberg
> ... > Linux PCMCIA Card Services 3.1.11 > options: [pci] [cardbus] [pm] > Yenta IRQ list 0698, PCI irq11 > ... The PCMCIA IRQ probes can hang the system if it probes the wrong IRQ. Fix your PCMCIA config. > Without the next line. I don't know what's wrong on my side -- > kernel 2.2.1

[ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
TRG has reprioritized it's long term objectives, and due to resource constraints and short term schedules, the Open Source NDS and Open Source NTFS File System projects are being withdrawn from the Linux Initiative. These projects will be MANOS only, and any interested party is free to acquire t

Re: thread rant

2000-09-02 Thread Igmar Palsenberg
On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, Michael Bacarella wrote: > > Q: Why do we need threads? > A: Because on some operating systems, task switches are expensive. No. threads share variable and code memory, processes do not. And sometimes it can make your life a lot easier. Even if you can use things such as SHM

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VM now?

2000-09-02 Thread Linus Torvalds
In article <8ornsg$h70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Henrik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=F8rner?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I am one of the people who have been seeing this problem. I would be >very surprised if it was an ext2 problem, as the only ext2 filesystem >on my disk contains all of /boot. No programs, no

Re: MTBF data for linux

2000-09-02 Thread Igmar Palsenberg
On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, Matthew Dharm wrote: > I agree that the MTBF can be very misleading... > > But put it this way: My server ran 2.2.14 for over 400 days before I > rebooted it. It was down for about 5 minutes while rebooting (probably > less). > > My NT Server gets a nightly reboot. I can'

Re: 2.4.0-test8-pre1 is quite bad / how about integrating Rik's VM now?

2000-09-02 Thread Henrik Størner
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linus Torvalds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Rik van Riel wrote: >> >> In fact, I plan to spend most of my time trying to track down >> the 2 VM problems on tytso's list: >> >> 1) the innd data corruption bug >This, I think, was due to a bug in ext2 t

NWFS [PATCH] File organization 2.2.18 and 2.4.0-7

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Linus, I at present have the NWFS utilities and File System drivers as single source base. Obviously, the way your tree is organized, the file system driver proper should be in the kernel tree and the file system utitilies somewhere else. Where should I breakout the file system utils and where

[PATCH] 2.4.0-test7 to Enable Variable Block Chaining

2000-09-02 Thread Jeff V. Merkey
Linus, The attached patch is submitted to enable variable sector size block chaining via ll_rw_block() in the I/O subsystem layer. Jeff 904a905,907 > / > // This code is being commented out to allow support for variable chained > // block I/O requests. Jeff V. Merkey 915a919 > */

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