On 12/02/2013 02:03 AM, Paul Morris wrote:
I have been keeping my eye on Gittip. It's basically a tool that lets
individuals make ongoing weekly payments to other individuals (or
organizations) to support whatever work they do. It happens that more
often than not this is volunteer work on free
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:11 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
> Christ van Willegen writes:
>> If everyone on the mailing list chipped in 1 euro a month, that would
>> get David out of financial problems, probably for the rest of his
>> life...
>
> Just for the record, I am not having "financial problems
Christ van Willegen writes:
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chris Crossen wrote:
>> I just wanted to re-emphasize that original point and hope the
>> discussion has convinced a few more of us to make a small, but
>> regular donation.
>
> If everyone on the mailing list chipped in 1 euro a mon
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chris Crossen wrote:
> I just wanted to re-emphasize that original point and hope the discussion has
> convinced a few more of us to make a small, but regular donation.
If everyone on the mailing list chipped in 1 euro a month, that would
get David out of financi
> Hi,
>
> we are nearing the end of the year, and, uh, it looks like I could make use
> of some of the spirit of giving.
>
> As you can see from the accompanying report, the current number of people
> supporting my work on LilyPond financially is on the decline:
> whi
2013/12/3 Noeck
> > This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
> > backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
> > a look at Schikkers List
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/schikkers
>
> This looks really cool! (Has it improved a lot or is the html5 demo
> This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
> backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
> a look at Schikkers List
>
> http://lilypond.org/schikkers
This looks really cool! (Has it improved a lot or is the html5 demo new,
compared to last year? T
"R.D. Latimer" writes:
> I'm a retired school teacher, I know some C++, I'd be happy to help
> out with dev if I can, though I may not know enough, but would be
> willing to try. I know some c++ and lisp/scheme and music theory. I
> have a Windows 7 laptop, Netbeans for C++ dev. Let me know if t
I'm a retired school teacher, I know some C++, I'd be happy to help out
with dev if I can, though I may not know enough, but would be willing to
try. I know some c++ and lisp/scheme and music theory. I have a Windows 7
laptop, Netbeans for C++ dev. Let me know if there may be ways to help out
wit
Carl Peterson writes:
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:31 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
>
>> Well, I'd argue that a mouse makes absolutely no sense for music input.
>> A practised typist can write several hundred words per minute and keep
>> this up for quite a long time.
>>
>> Input the same amount of inf
>
>
> 2) The contention was that this stuff would be easier in Sibelius. Not
>> that you
>> can get it right there too.
>>
>
> Sibelius doesn't get things automatically right as well as Lilypond does,
> but it's usually much, much easier to correct or customize them when it
> doesn't give you what
On 01/12/13 15:09, immanuel litzroth wrote:
1) I don't seem to run into many of these problems with lilypond and I do
transcriptions of small ensembles *and* export all
the voices separately (that's including drums) -- I almost never have to clean
up for readability issues, and don't have the
tim
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
> I guess „we“ have a chance in combination with TeX, i.e. at universities
> etc. where TeX is in broad use, since the approach and needed expertise is
> similar.
>
Good luck with that, at least if my university was any indication of
th
Hi all,
this is quite a different subject from the "promoting LilyPond" stuff,
so i separated this thread.
2013/12/1 David Kastrup :
> Kieren wrote:
>> Result? Not a single successful convert [to Lily] to date.
>
> I think Frescobaldi with its templates would likely be helpful.
> Possibly also De
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:31 PM, David Kastrup wrote:
> SoundsFromSound writes:
>
> > The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
> > to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that "LilyPond looks
> > like way too much work" and "Text input?? That makes absolutely n
Hi all,
a very important discussion! A couple thoughts:
2013/12/1 Carl Peterson :
> LP came out in the midst of other packages that already existed. As a
> result, it is fighting for marketshare in a relatively mature market.
> Granted, it is possible to overcome this hurdle, as Google Chrome se
David Kastrup schrieb:
>SoundsFromSound writes:
>
>> The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
>> to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that "LilyPond looks
>> like way too much work" and "Text input?? That makes absolutely no
>> sense for music. You're n
SoundsFromSound writes:
> The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
> to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that "LilyPond looks
> like way too much work" and "Text input?? That makes absolutely no
> sense for music. You're not writing a book! It's a score!".
py to help grow the
LilyPond community.
Have a nice weekend!
Ben
-
composer | sound designer
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
--
View this message in context:
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Supporting-my-work-on-LilyPond-financially-tp154644p154813.
Martin Tarenskeen writes:
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>
>> I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project
>> load diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
>
> Denemo is mentioned several times in this thread.
>
> I have installed and tried Denem
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648>
>> Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
>> unpitched notes
>
> It’s a nice feature… but a
Henning Hraban Ramm writes:
> Am 2013-12-01 um 19:15 schrieb David Kastrup :
>
>> I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648>
>> Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
>> unpitc
Richard Shann writes:
> On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 11:41 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
>> > In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
>> > 1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI (so that users *never*
>> > have to see Lilypond “code”);
>>
>> According to the advertisin
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 17:27 +0100, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>
> > I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project load
> > diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
>
> Denemo is mentioned several times in this thre
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project load
diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
Denemo is mentioned several times in this thread.
I have installed and tried Denemo several times recently and in the p
Am 01.12.2013 12:04, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
Hi Urs,
If anybody is interested in this and has experience with Python and/or MusicXML
please contact us
I have no Python experience, but lots of XML/XSL(T) experience — and, of
course, a proven willingness to financially support Lilypond.
Will
Hi Richard,
> Ha! It's funny you should mention this, but I just added a command to
> Denemo to create a staff complete with time signature changes and empty
> measures for a score (for a completely different reason).
Synchronicity!
> Front-end stuff is so easy to do with a pre-processor like De
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 09:19 -0500, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>
> On the other hand, something really useful — and helpful in getting
> users “out of the code” — would be the ability to say:
>
> lastCymbalCrash = {
> \atMoment (256 . 1) b4\accent\sff
> }
>
> and then output a 256-measure part (co
Hi Richard,
> They had posted the musicXML too, so I imported it into Denemo
> and re-typeset it with LilyPond. The result was this:
>
> http://imslp.org/wiki/Oboe_Sonata_in_C_major_(Albinoni,_Tomaso)
>
> I didn't need to tweak it with LilyPond, and, for fun, I transposed it
> up a minor third f
> How does that compare to their reaction to Lilypond? I would guess amazement
> at how much Lilypond gets right, but frustration with how relatively
> complicated it is to enter a score and see the results? And probably
> overwhelming frustration when they hit the point of wanting to tweak
>
Am 2013-12-01 um 19:15 schrieb David Kastrup :
> I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
>
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648>
> Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
> unpitched notes
I hear you - as a magazine
Hi David,
> I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
>
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648>
> Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
> unpitched notes
It’s a nice feature… but applicable, I would imagine, to a spect
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling <
joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net> wrote:
> On 01/12/13 14:56, immanuel litzroth wrote:
>
>> Here's a nice example.
>>
>
> That's almost certainly someone writing to full score (which has
> particular spacing properties) and auto-exporting to pa
Am 2013-12-01 um 15:26 schrieb Urs Liska :
> I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by itself is a
> huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
> If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's overwhelmingly
> daunting. And if you look at { c d e
On 01/12/13 14:56, immanuel litzroth wrote:
Here's a nice example.
That's almost certainly someone writing to full score (which has particular
spacing properties) and auto-exporting to parts without ever actually looking at
them. Surprise to surprise, the horizontal spacing issues are differ
On 01/12/13 14:13, immanuel litzroth wrote:
I follow a music education program that requires me to play in a combo 1 hour a
week. The scores there are prepared
by paid professionals, usually in Sibelius. They are invariably late, and
usually unreadable when they arrive.
Chords on top of each othe
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi Joseph,
>
>> The default output of Finale is indeed ugly, and I was reminded that
>> Sibelius too has its problems when I recently received a score from
>> a friend which would surely have looked much better done in
>> Lilypond.
>>
>> The thing is, though, both are
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling <
joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net> wrote:
> On 01/12/13 09:45, David Kastrup wrote:
>
>> Finale output is ugly to the degree where it is distracting readability,
>> particularly for instrumentalists. Sibelius' corporate parent has fired
>> its
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 11:41 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
> > In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
> > 1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI (so that users *never*
> > have to see Lilypond “code”);
>
> According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
I hope noth
On 01/12/13 14:00, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I disagree somewhat… and so do most of my Finale- and Sibelius-using friends
and colleagues, who complain endlessly about how much time it takes to tweak
scores and parts.
How does that compare to their reaction to Lilypond? I would guess amazement
Hi Joseph,
> The default output of Finale is indeed ugly, and I was reminded that Sibelius
> too has its problems when I recently received a score from a friend which
> would surely have looked much better done in Lilypond.
>
> The thing is, though, both are so easy to tweak, it doesn't matter.
On 01/12/13 12:49, David Kastrup wrote:
I don't think this sort of preplanning works out well. Mostly it just
leads to people going away until the stuff they are not interested in is
done. We need to figure out better ways to work on parallel and partly
conflicting goals.
Yes, I guess that's
Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes:
> On 30/11/13 21:40, David Kastrup wrote:
>> The backend is much less coherent, so expertise is harder to acquire,
>> people tend to work with partial knowledge, and progress is a lot
>> more fragile. We need to get those four months down, and yes, a
>> shouting m
On 01/12/13 09:45, David Kastrup wrote:
Finale output is ugly to the degree where it is distracting readability,
particularly for instrumentalists. Sibelius' corporate parent has fired
its core developer team in the UK, including its original authors.
Steinberg does not yet have a finished produ
On 30/11/13 21:40, David Kastrup wrote:
The backend is much less coherent, so expertise is harder to acquire,
people tend to work with partial knowledge, and progress is a lot more
fragile. We need to get those four months down, and yes, a shouting
match is not going to help. What will help is
Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes:
> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>
>> (so that users *never* have to see Lilypond “code”); or
>
> and this is what I don't understand.
>
> My idea is exactly the opposite: to show people the corresponding text
> input also,
"also"
> so that they have a very easy way to learn
Hi David,
> we'll probably need some open discussion of common problems and
> imaginary input that would make it considerably easier for people to
> overcome them.
I’m right in the middle of an immense engraving project — I have lots of fodder
and examples for such a discussion.
> LilyPond's ri
Hi Urs,
> If anybody is interested in this and has experience with Python and/or
> MusicXML please contact us
I have no Python experience, but lots of XML/XSL(T) experience — and, of
course, a proven willingness to financially support Lilypond.
Will those help?
Kieren.
_
Kieren MacMillan writes:
>> I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by
>> itself is a huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
>
> Amen.
>
>> If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's
>> overwhelmingly daunting.
>
> …even for me, and I’m one o
Kieren MacMillan schrieb:
>Hi David,
>
>>> 1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI
>> According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
>
>Perhaps when I’ve got a little time to spare, I’ll give that a look —
>if it’s really all that, it might become part of my standard
>“proselytizing” packa
Hi Jan,
> This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
> backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
> a look at Schikkers List
>
>http://lilypond.org/schikkers
>
> and come help me out! If only to lure people over to LilyPond,
> increase its potent
Hi David,
>> 1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI
> According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
Perhaps when I’ve got a little time to spare, I’ll give that a look — if it’s
really all that, it might become part of my standard “proselytizing” package.
> "LilyPond for output only" is n
Kieren MacMillan writes:
>> The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
>
> Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this
> list, I can tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable
> for Lilypond.
>
> In my opinion, there are only two things that
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
>
> Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this
> list, I can tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable
> for Lilypond.
>
> In my opinion, there are only
Hi David,
> The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this list, I can
tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable for Lilypond.
In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
1
> I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by itself is a
> huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
Amen.
> If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's overwhelmingly
> daunting.
…even for me, and I’m one of Lily’s biggest users in terms of n
Am 01.12.2013 09:45, schrieb David Kastrup:
This means that the first hurdle is overcoming the inertia of "I
> already have x, why should I switch? Which leads to (2) even if I can
> demonstrate that LP overcomes the technical difficulties of another
> notation program, people are going to be rel
Carl Peterson writes:
> On Dec 1, 2013 1:47 AM, "David Kastrup" wrote:
>>
>> Noeck writes:
>
>> > I personally don't understand why LP is not common at music
>> > universities but that's probably a chicken-or-the-egg thing and the
>> > lack of large scale marketing. But this would also need off
On Dec 1, 2013 1:47 AM, "David Kastrup" wrote:
>
> Noeck writes:
> > I personally don't understand why LP is not common at music
> > universities but that's probably a chicken-or-the-egg thing and the
> > lack of large scale marketing. But this would also need official
> > contacts in the LP tea
Noeck writes:
> 2) Private donations from hobby users:
> Probably most users are not paid for their music engraving. If LP would
> not exist (nor some other free (as in free beer) software), they might
> have to pay for Finale (600$) or Sibelius (550€). But probably they
> would go with a light v
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Noeck wrote:
But: »Der Ton macht die Musik« (for non German speakers: it's not what
you say but the way you say it).
I can understand both German and English. But I have always thought the
original is in French: "C'est le ton qui fait la musique". Sounds good to
me :-)
Hi,
I was thinking about fund raising for some days now. I see several
possible sources for supporting LP financially:
1) Private donations from developers:
This seems to be partly the case and you have my deep respect that you
both work for and spend money on LP. This group probably stays
relati
Am 30.11.2013 22:10, schrieb David Kastrup:
> Janek Warchoł writes:
>
>> The only way that i see in which David influences development is that
>> he doesn't allow bad code during reviews, and it's hard to write good
>> code when there's a lot of bad code and architectural problems already
>> in
2013/11/30 David Kastrup :
> Janek Warchoł writes:
>
>>> [] It is clear that our development cycles have not worked out
>>> well. It's taken probably 9 months at least from the time we wanted
>>> to go for releasing 2.18 to now, and it has been frustrating to
>>> people. []
>>
>> Well, i
Janek Warchoł writes:
>> [] It is clear that our development cycles have not worked out
>> well. It's taken probably 9 months at least from the time we wanted
>> to go for releasing 2.18 to now, and it has been frustrating to
>> people. []
>
> Well, i was intending to start a discussion
Janek Warchoł writes:
> The only way that i see in which David influences development is that
> he doesn't allow bad code during reviews, and it's hard to write good
> code when there's a lot of bad code and architectural problems already
> in the codebase (at least that's how the situation looks
2013/11/30 David Kastrup :
> Mike Solomon writes:
>> I would argue that the point that Janek brings up above is not a
>> healthy sign for LilyPond development. Several developers, including
>> myself, have lowered their participation considerably over the past
>> two years.
>>
>> In my opinion, i
2013/11/30 Mike Solomon :
> I would argue that the point that Janek brings up above is not a healthy sign
> for LilyPond development.
> Several developers, including myself, have lowered their participation
> considerably over the past two years.
Maybe i should ask the question "why are you less
2013/11/30 Mike Solomon :
>
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2013/11/29 David Kastrup :
>>>
>>> But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
>>> keep this up?
>>
>> As you can see, it appears that David (d...@gnu.org) is doing abou
>>
Mike Solomon writes:
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
>
>> 2013/11/29 David Kastrup :
>>>
>>> But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
>>> keep this up?
>>
>> As you can see, it appears that David (d...@gnu.org) is doing abou
>> as much as th
On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2013/11/29 David Kastrup :
>>
>> But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
>> keep this up?
>
> As you can see, it appears that David (d...@gnu.org) is doing abou
> as much as the rest of the developme
Hi,
2013/11/29 David Kastrup :
> There is still a lot LilyPond is in need of doing, I am pretty positive
> that 2.18 will be out before Christmas, and I am responsible for a large
> part of the developments even though the majority of contributions and
> of organizational tasks and efforts and tra
As many of you already know, I have been working on LilyPond (and
nothing else) for quite a while, and since I asked for financial support
in March
http://news.lilynet.net/?The-LilyPond-Report-24#an_urgent_request_for_funding>
(read the following LilyPond reports for information on the results),
o
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